An Observation About Greysheet Prices on Certified Dollars

Shortgapbob

I wanted to see if anyone had noticed the recent Greysheet pricing on certified Morgans in MS-64 and MS-65....

Specifically, when they were run up, all common dates were run up in unison until MS-64s were about $114 and MS-65s were about $215. Now that the Greysheet is minusing dollars each week to catch up with the declining market, they are only minusing certain dates.

For example, in the new June 3rd Greysheet, 1880-S and other common date Morgans are shown at $82 in MS-64 and $170 in MS-65. However, some other common dates, like some O-Mints are still being shown at $111 in MS-64 and $215 in MS-65.

So why is there disparity in the common dates dollars on the Greysheet? I certainly don't know of anyone who will pay $111 for 1883-O Morgan or 1899-O Morgans in MS-64 or $215 for these dates in MS-65.

Anyone have any input or thoughts?.?.?




Edited for spelling.

RedHerring

<< <i>I certainly don't know of anyone who will pay $111 for 1883-O Morgan or 1899-O Morgans in MS-64 or $215 for these dates in MS-65. >>



Those 65 prices still might happen on eBay but not dealer to dealer. The 64 prices are too high either way.

I paid $218 ($185+juice) for this generic 65 a few days ago on Heritage:

Frankcoins

The Bluesheet is for typical Certified coins, the Greysheet is for sight seen (high end) raw or certifed coins.

Shortgapbob

<< <i>The Bluesheet is for typical Certified coins, the Greysheet is for sight seen (high end) raw or certifed coins. >>



True, but the Greysheet was reflecting the live, sight-seen bids for the coins on the way up, and is reflecting the live sight-seen bids for only some of the dates on the way down (although lagging behind the market a bit).

I just think that the fact that the Greysheet is not minusing some of the common dates is odd, as there are no higher sight bids for an 1883-O Morgan in MS-64/65 than an 1880-S that I am aware of.

AnkurJ

In my short five years of collecting, I have never seen a dealer or collector use the blue sheet at a show.

blu62vette

<< <i>In my short five years of collecting, I have never seen a dealer or collector use the blue sheet at a show. >>



I have seen dealers use it several times.

robkool

I've also notice differences in bid/ask on Morgans too... I was able to pick-up an 1901 o dollar today in a pcgs ms63 holder for $48 bucks at the show. The bid/ask is $65/70. So I either got a great deal, or those prices in the sheet are way off.

jdimmick

Robert,

I dont beleive they update all the prices like they should, it must be some items are not kept up routinely. If you take a look at silver for example after the drop, everything over time that was associated with the silver price run up such as 57-64 proof sets, even t he 40% sets, roll prices, prestige sets, state qurter sets, circ rolls, regular $, Ike's has all not been corrected downward, several have but many have not. It gives a false value of some of these items. I remember figuring a 25k collection about 2 weeks after the drop and I woud have been in serious overpayment if following greysheet.

RichieURich

I'm surprised that you have found an abnormality in Greysheet pricing of Morgan dollars.

[cynicism] Those of us who are into Bust and Seated coins know that the Greysheet prices are absolutely 100% accurate. [/cynicism]

If you believe that, then please let me know the next time you acquire a Fine 1822 dime for $1,400, or a Good 1846 dime for $60, or a VF 1823/2 quarter for $45,000, or a Good 1871-CC or 1873-CC quarter for $1,500, or a Good 1873-CC half (without or with arrows) for $110, or a Good 1871-CC dollar for $1,100. Just to name a few of the hundreds of Greysheet prices that are far from reality for Bust and Seated coins.

Frankcoins

<< <i>I wanted to see if anyone had noticed the recent Greysheet pricing on certified Morgans in MS-64 and MS-65....

Specifically, when they were run up, all common dates were run up in unison until MS-64s were about $114 and MS-65s were about $215. Now that the Greysheet is minusing dollars each week to catch up with the declining market, they are only minusing certain dates.

For example, in the new June 3rd Greysheet, 1880-S and other common date Morgans are shown at $82 in MS-64 and $170 in MS-65. However, some other common dates, like some O-Mints are still being shown at $111 in MS-64 and $215 in MS-65.

So why is there disparity in the common dates dollars on the Greysheet? I certainly don't know of anyone who will pay $111 for 1883-O Morgan or 1899-O Morgans in MS-64 or $215 for these dates in MS-65.


Edited for spelling. >>



The Greysheet reports the HIGHEST known bid from a couple of weeks ago, but doesn't specify WHO was paying it. You can become a member of a trading network like CCE or CoinNet if you wish to trade for these prices. If you are offering fewer than 20 or 50 quantities, expect lower prices, similar to trading odd lots of a stock.

Shortgapbob

I'm on CCE so I see what you are saying about the highest known bids and the quantity requirements. My point is that I don't know of anyone on the networks like CCE or anywhere else who are paying any more for the dollars on the Greysheet listed at $111 than they are for the dollars listed on the Greysheet at $82. I would think they should all be priced as a group, as they are all generic in nature.




<< <i>

<< <i>I wanted to see if anyone had noticed the recent Greysheet pricing on certified Morgans in MS-64 and MS-65....

Specifically, when they were run up, all common dates were run up in unison until MS-64s were about $114 and MS-65s were about $215. Now that the Greysheet is minusing dollars each week to catch up with the declining market, they are only minusing certain dates.

For example, in the new June 3rd Greysheet, 1880-S and other common date Morgans are shown at $82 in MS-64 and $170 in MS-65. However, some other common dates, like some O-Mints are still being shown at $111 in MS-64 and $215 in MS-65.

So why is there disparity in the common dates dollars on the Greysheet? I certainly don't know of anyone who will pay $111 for 1883-O Morgan or 1899-O Morgans in MS-64 or $215 for these dates in MS-65.


Edited for spelling. >>



The Greysheet reports the HIGHEST known bid from a couple of weeks ago, but doesn't specify WHO was paying it. You can become a member of a trading network like CCE or CoinNet if you wish to trade for these prices. If you are offering fewer than 20 or 50 quantities, expect lower prices, similar to trading odd lots of a stock. >>

Shortgapbob

<< <i>I'm surprised that you have found an abnormality in Greysheet pricing of Morgan dollars.

[cynicism] Those of us who are into Bust and Seated coins know that the Greysheet prices are absolutely 100% accurate. [/cynicism]

If you believe that, then please let me know the next time you acquire a Fine 1822 dime for $1,400, or a Good 1846 dime for $60, or a VF 1823/2 quarter for $45,000, or a Good 1871-CC or 1873-CC quarter for $1,500, or a Good 1873-CC half (without or with arrows) for $110, or a Good 1871-CC dollar for $1,100. Just to name a few of the hundreds of Greysheet prices that are far from reality for Bust and Seated coins. >>




I like the cynicism Rich! Yes, we all know how useless the Greysheet is with U.S. Type. But I would think things would be different with market-relative coins like generic Morgans.

RedTiger

It might a case of a fast falling market and a mostly automated system for updating prices. With an automated update, some prices may be taken earlier in the week than others and would account for discrepancies in the form of stale prices. Sure human editors could go through and check every one of the thousands of prices by hand, but it is a lot less work and easier just to wait until next week's automated sweep to pick up the new prices.

Once in a while a few of the common dates do command a slightly higher premium because a dealer needs to fill an order for specific dates, perhaps to sell sets of 20 different MS63 Morgans or whatever, and has higher bid on the system for a few of the commons.

BillJones

<< <i>In my short five years of collecting, I have never seen a dealer or collector use the blue sheet at a show. >>



I've seen them TRY to use it, but for people who have nice coins and know the score, they didn't get very far.

When I had to buy coins I didn't like to get the ones I wanted in a collection, I used it for buying or selling. For graded coins Blue Sheet minus 10 to 20 percent is the rock bottom IMO. And yes, I've seen a few coins in holders that were not worth any more than that because of unattractive toning and other issues.

roadrunner

In my short five years of collecting, I have never seen a dealer or collector use the blue sheet at a show.

The blue sheet was used extensively when overall coin prices were weak from 1991-2004. If a dealer was unsure about paying near greysheet for an average to lower
end coin, out would come the blue sheet. Once the market exploded upwards around 2004-2007 blue sheet was no longer as needed as even low end coins could bring
pretty close to grey sheet bid. But now that things have fallen back quite a bit again, rather than using blue sheet more, dealers seem comfortable quoting large discounts to grey
sheet (ie 20-40% back of bid). I think the influence of CAC has helped bring this about. Why use a blue sheet when an offer on a low end coin can be figured out using next
grade down on grey sheet, or maybe with a 20-30% reduction in price? It wasn't so obvious to many before CAC that there could be such a difference between coins of the same grade.

Blue sheet seemed to work well for a couple of years (1987-1990) defining the market price for most slabbed US coins. But I think it's relevance is nothing close to what it once was.
Then again, the relevance of grey sheet today is a lot less than it was say 5 yrs ago before the advent of *, secure, +, CAC, etc. Just a few years ago grading vs. pricing was more of
a step function. These days, it's much more on a curve (similar to the pre-1986 era). With everyone so quality conscious today, if you have to look a blue sheet to determine what a
substandard coin might be worth, the better alternative is to wait for a decent specimen.

roadrunner