Seller Logic
mcadams
Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭
I made an offer on a card last night that I've been considering for a while. Got a response this morning that seller "couldn't do it for that price because I paid more than that for it". Seller has had this card for at least a year b/c I've seen it in his Ebay store for at least that long. Why a seller would think that the price he paid for something has anything to do with that card's current value is beyond me. The more and more that we've discussed this issue on the board, the more I am coming to the conclusion that most sellers don't understand Finance/Economics or how to run a business. Blah... And of course, the card has never been auctioned. No no.....its sitting under piles of dust in BIN format. Sorry to vent....
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Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
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What percentage of his buy it now price did you offer to him?
<< <i>He'd rather eat the card or flush it down the toilet than sell it for less than he paid. Some people are like this. All people have a right to be like this. You have a right to not like it. >>
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Yup.
Collectibles don't eat anything.
They can sit on the shelf until they bring the right price. Eventually, they
always do.
If someone asks REALLY nice, I will sometimes sell something pretty cheap.
Most of the time, I would rather keep the item than lose money on it; maybe
it will recover later, maybe not. Most sellers really don't care if they sell the
stuff or not.
<< <i>What is the card? >>
Doesn't matter. I don't want to draw attention to the seller. My offer was about 15% under his BIN price, but in line with recent auction sales of the same card in the same grade.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>Has the card EVER sold for the price he is asking for his? >>
I don't know. I don't subscribe to VCP so I can't say for sure that nothing has sold at that price. But I have looked up closed sales on Ebay and from other auction houses, found several examples in the same grade, and he's considerably above all of those.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i>I made an offer on a card last night that I've been considering for a while. Got a response this morning that seller "couldn't do it for that price because I paid more than that for it". Seller has had this card for at least a year b/c I've seen it in his Ebay store for at least that long. Why a seller would think that the price he paid for something has anything to do with that card's current value is beyond me. The more and more that we've discussed this issue on the board, the more I am coming to the conclusion that most sellers don't understand Finance/Economics or how to run a business. Blah... And of course, the card has never been auctioned. No no.....its sitting under piles of dust in BIN format. Sorry to vent.... >>
Also is this seller a business or are they just a collector putting up a few cards on Ebay. That makes a big difference as to why they are not willing to sell at 15% off of their BIN price. You must really want the card if you are taking it this personally to rant about it, just pony up and buy it if you like it that much. Then you can be that guy a couple months/years from now who is not willing to come off his asking price.
<< <i>
<< <i>What is the card? >>
My offer was about 15% under his BIN price, but in line with recent auction sales of the same card in the same grade. >>
Then just wait for the same card in the same grade.
Was the auction a straight BIN? Or with Best Offer?
That alone should tell you something. I think people get lost in vcp which doesn't take into account high end cards worth a little premium.
15% under bin sounds fair given the length of time. If the seller did take a loss then he could invest that money into something that he can buy
in a slow market and recoup the lost $.
Buying the card at the current bin does in effect raises the vcp average.
Try a 10% under bin offer.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
"....If the seller did take a loss then he could invest that money into something that he can buy
in a slow market and recoup the lost $...."
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There is, among many buyers, a false presumption that all/most EBAY
collectible sellers suffer from a shortage of cash. MOST longtime sellers
do not need to sell items that they already have in order to "invest" in
faster moving items; they can keep the items they already have AND
buy additional topical/fashionable items.
Elementary - and academic - biz-principles play NO part in the sell-decisions
of most experienced EBAY sellers; this is especially true among collectible
peddlers. They either get their price or they keep their stuff.
I hear what Storm is saying and agree with most of it but lets take this a little further via example. About 3 years ago Champs & Bums picked up a Raw set of a Card that I collect, sent it to PSA and got a bunch of 7's and 8's. Put them up for auction and realized profits of 1000% to 5000%. There are 10 of us who have registered sets, 8 registered with PSA, 2 not. So after the dust settled there were 6 Cards not sold because all of the other 9 people had them in their sets, I need three of them. I missed the auctions, Chimps & Bimps puts them in their Store at a rediculous price based on what two clowns had fought over a couple of cards.
So I contacted them and told them I was interested, but at about 1/2 of what they are asking. They counter 10% off, I say No Thanks. So over the last 2 1/2 years I explain to them that all of the other Registered sets have these three Cards in them, so basically I am their ONLY customer and offer 1/2 of ask. Nope 10% off. I even introduced myself at the National and told them if they ever want to sell them, I'm their Huckleberry. Send them an e-mail every 6 months and still the same story.
Cards have been listed for 2 1/2 years...No Sales. To me that is just a Stupid Business model!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
<< <i>I made an offer on a card last night that I've been considering for a while. Got a response this morning that seller "couldn't do it for that price because I paid more than that for it". Seller has had this card for at least a year b/c I've seen it in his Ebay store for at least that long. Why a seller would think that the price he paid for something has anything to do with that card's current value is beyond me. The more and more that we've discussed this issue on the board, the more I am coming to the conclusion that most sellers don't understand Finance/Economics or how to run a business. Blah... And of course, the card has never been auctioned. No no.....its sitting under piles of dust in BIN format. Sorry to vent.... >>
Kramer getting fired
I think too many ebay sellers have about the same business skills as Kramer. LOL
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<< <i>
<< <i>I made an offer on a card last night that I've been considering for a while. Got a response this morning that seller "couldn't do it for that price because I paid more than that for it". Seller has had this card for at least a year b/c I've seen it in his Ebay store for at least that long. Why a seller would think that the price he paid for something has anything to do with that card's current value is beyond me. The more and more that we've discussed this issue on the board, the more I am coming to the conclusion that most sellers don't understand Finance/Economics or how to run a business. Blah... And of course, the card has never been auctioned. No no.....its sitting under piles of dust in BIN format. Sorry to vent.... >>
Also is this seller a business or are they just a collector putting up a few cards on Ebay. That makes a big difference as to why they are not willing to sell at 15% off of their BIN price. You must really want the card if you are taking it this personally to rant about it, just pony up and buy it if you like it that much. Then you can be that guy a couple months/years from now who is not willing to come off his asking price. >>
Seller is a business, not just a collector. Andy I'm not taking it personally. My "rant" is hardly based on this 1 incident- This is very typical behavior for sellers these days that honestly believe that they know what something is worth, despite all the information around them that contridicts thier point of view. The "my price or the highway" approach by sellers is not good for the hobby, especially when inventory sits for years on end.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
<< <i> The "my price or the highway" approach by sellers is not good for the hobby, especially when inventory sits for years on end. >>
What He Said !!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
<< <i>So you've been considering the purchase of this card for a while and have seen the card in the store for at least a year. You don't have access to VCP but you've been monitoring recent closed sales on Ebay and other auction houses and he's considerably above all of those. You complain that the seller hasn't tried to auction the card but for some bizarre reason you didn't participate in any of those other sales where you claim the card could have been purchased for considerably less. How much is considerably less? You said your offer was 15% below his BIN price which you said brought the price down to in line with the other sales. VCP prices for the same card are never all the same and the difference between the high and low price is probably averages greater than 15% for most cards. What made the current card better than all the rest and the one you decide to go for? Why pass on all the others that could have been bought for what you're willing to pay. We're talking a 15% difference, so on a $500 listed card you're complaining about not being able to buy it for $425. If recent sales were all around $425 then he probably did pay a little more than your offer. If you bought it for $425 where would you price the card if you wanted to resell it? $450, $475, maybe a ridiculous $500. How eager will you be to sell it for below what you paid when some Finance/Economic genius comes by to explain how 15% off whatever you price it at is a fair offer. >>
All fair points. I wish I was able to better monitor both Ebay and all the other various auctions that come and go, so that I never missed anything that I liked. I find some, I miss some, etc. To answer your question, as I was researching realized prices for some of the auction houses past auctions, that was the first time I learned that this card has actually been sold in prior auctions that I'd missed. If I'd have been there while the auctions were live, I certainly would have been a participant.
But lets be clear here. This isn't an isolated event. The BIN epidemic has been brewing at Ebay for a long time now, which IMO has given rise to the growth in alternative online auction houses. If BIN format holds at Ebay, then I think you'll see more and more card volume pushed through to the other auction houses, where the market dictates the price, not the seller.
Always buying Bobby Cox inserts. PM me.
I had a card that sat for over a year at $145. off and on over the past year I put it at 10% off in my store. no buyers at regular price or 10% off. two days ago the card sold for $145. if the card was still sitting there unsold today that would be okay with me. if it sold great and if not that's okay too.
Also had a card a week or 2 ago priced 6.99 + S/H 7 day auction 5 watchers, No bids, raise the price to 9.99 + S/H 7 day auction and it sold. On these 2 examples how do you determine what true market value was or is?
Who knows what buyers/sellers are thinking half the time.
15% off a BIN with B/O sounds like a fair offer. myself I would have accepted or counter offered with 10% off, because when a seller and buyer are this close to agreeing on a price, it should almost be a done deal.
When I run any BIN's with B/O , I am willing to drop at least 10% to 25% off of the BIN price otherwise it is a waste of time to the buyer & me for even running the item with a B/O.
when I run a BIN without a best offer that is the bottom line and usually won't even respond to an offer for less.
What really annoys me is a BIN with B/O and the buyer offers like 20% of the asking price.
Buy it Nows with or without best offer is here to stay at ebay, because sellers are tired of losing money with auctions.
there will always be items that are overpriced with BIN for various reasons:
1. the seller doesn't need the money, and refuses to sell it for less than what they paid for it.
2. the seller is looking for a sucker that needs the item yesterday.
3. the seller is out of touch with what the true market value really is.
4. the seller just wants to show it off to the rest of the world, with no chance of someone buying it.
One more thought: a real businessman knows when to cut his losses and dumps the losers to free up money to buy something else as you can't make money on everything. you just want more winners than losers in the real world.
Ebay is a different world/animal, ebay has collectors, investors, scam artists, grandma & grandpa buying gifts, weekend warriors, wannabe dealers, and then some true businessmen with & without storefronts.
JMHO