TOPSTUF, I'm sad that you feel the way that you do. I look at it differently but we will need a little 'mixin it up' to get it right again. I'll accept that challange. >>
Me too. I've been on Investor Village since its inception TRYING to get the boobs to see that gold is the ONLY asset that will survive. A ....few.... have capitulated and wish now they had listened back when I was touting at 400. But NONE have proposed ANYTHING other than the trite platitudes of US superiority in ingenuity, new technology, etc etc ad infinitum
Collapse is the future. It's rising again as we speak.
Glad I'm old. >>
This is the problem. Some of the greatest productivity increases in history have come in the last thirty years despite the fact much of the increase in wealth has been destroyed by the few to make huge profits for a few individuals in the name of "greed is good". Rat- her than these massive increases in wealth being passed on the the people they have all been funneled to the top.
It will prove very difficult to right the ship of state because we've sent our jobs and industry abroad and because the educational system is in shambles. We spend vast amounts of money not educating children and far vaster amounts not taking care of sick people because most health care dollars flow to those who lobby Congress rather than the medical profess- ion.
Empires collapse because people are afraid of change. We have nough slack in the amount of resources we waste to easily transition over to new ways of doing things and even have time to educate a new generation to take over in twenty years. But it probably isn't going to happen because people are afraid of change. Even when they're on the rail car to the gu- lag they are praying they don't need to switch tracks. Anything is better than the unknown even if you live in a nightmare world where children don't learn how to read and write and doctors mostly treat the well.
For those who believe there is no longer innovation (and industry) in the US, I would recommend a subscription to Wired Magazine.
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class).
<< <i>For those who believe there is no longer innovation (and industry) in the US, I would recommend a subscription to Wired Magazine.
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class). >>
GoingBroke: Tucson is much firmer market than Phoenix, but that is not saying much. I think there are terrific bargains here.
In general, when prices are falling, no one ever wants to buy, even if they see a bargain. When prices are rising, everyone want to buy even if they say "this is crazy".
Hetty Green said it best - "buy when there is blood in the streets", or was that J.P. Morgan.
Anyway, I would say try and find a good home cheap, don't try and steal a home, you'll probably buy someone else's lemon.
This thread is most interesting. Topstuf - glad you chimed in. Really good stuff.......
Storm- I've been short the market for a few months now. The trade is FINALLY bright green now. It's been a challenge, Yes, I get your point in spades. However, I firmly believe that you have to take a shot at big picture homerun trades when they present themselves. ( Nassim Taleb if you will). I may yet be wrong.............streeter, great stuff.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>This thread is most interesting. Topstuf - glad you chimed in. Really good stuff.......
Storm- I've been short the market for a few months now. The trade is FINALLY bright green now. It's been a challenge, Yes, I get your point in spades. However, I firmly believe that you have to take a shot at big picture homerun trades when they present themselves. ( Nassim Taleb if you will). I may yet be wrong.............streeter, great stuff.
MJ >>
Thanks for throwin in those last three words DUDE-----I almost started to pout
And TOPSTUFF....how in the heck did he find time to pull himself away from countin the stack? 40 hours a week countin his money, tough job.
<< <i>For those who believe there is no longer innovation (and industry) in the US, I would recommend a subscription to Wired Magazine.
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class). >>
Shussh!!! Dont you know thinking about the end of life as we know it is much more pleasurable?
Come on people, the world isnt going to end and the dollar is not going to zero. Will the USA (and Europe) finally have to live within its means? Yup, and thankfully so. Will this cause pain and dispair? Yes, and thankfully so.
Today, everyone of us lives better than our forefathers. And our great grandchildren will say the same 3 generations from now. The problem is that today, very few of us have ever had to "sacrifice". Very few have fought in a war. Very few have lived 3 generations to a household. Very few have gone hungry for a night. So its about time we finally bite the bullet and take the medicine our forefathers did. It wont kill us, but will make us better and stronger. From desperation comes innovation. Unfortunately we are not even close to desperation, but it will come. Unbrace it, dont fear it.
I call bullelmo, I made more money the last two months than all of last year. We are in a solid recovery and all you mentally ill doom and gloomers need therapy. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
<< <i>And I'm sick of hearing...'it's over'...............cause it ain't. It's only over for the people who can't create value for the marketplace. 'The I give ups' >>
Word.
I just got a job offer from a startup at 17% above my current salary. Every day, people still take shots at creating the things the marketplace wants to buy. And the smart money *funds them*.
The world has not stopped turning just because some old has-beens can't see beyond the shrinking purchasing power of their time accounts. Good Lord.
Bullion good, and bullion fine, but first take care of biz...
<< <i>GoingBroke: Tucson is much firmer market than Phoenix, but that is not saying much. I think there are terrific bargains here.
In general, when prices are falling, no one ever wants to buy, even if they see a bargain. When prices are rising, everyone want to buy even if they say "this is crazy".
Hetty Green said it best - "buy when there is blood in the streets", or was that J.P. Morgan.
Anyway, I would say try and find a good home cheap, don't try and steal a home, you'll probably buy someone else's lemon. >>
I think we will be looking at new homes in the Saddle brook area near Tucson. It looks like its far enough for quiet time and yet close enough to town for supply.
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
As far as doctors only treating the well. It will also be treating those that have the money. More and more doctors are going VIP. 600 patients x 1500 is close to $900,000. That is the patient limit my doctor accepts. He met his 600 allotment and is no longer accepting new patients. Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements.
I also agree that when you see all that QE2 injected into an anemic stock market the endgame will soon be here.
<< <i>As far as doctors only treating the well. It will also be treating those that have the money. More and more doctors are going VIP. 600 patients x 1500 is close to $900,000. That is the patient limit my doctor accepts. He met his 600 allotment and is no longer accepting new patients. Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements. I also agree that when you see all that QE2 injected into an anemic stock market the endgame will soon be here. >>
$1500 might seem stiff, but it's fairly cheap considering how fast medical insurance is rising. My insurance plan went up that same amount this year. I'd be happy to fork over the Doctor's $1500 fee if they could somehow negotiate a fair price for medical insurance for their group of 600 patients.
"Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements."
Many MD offices now have a new business model and the model is evolving quickly and becoming very popular. The improved model for the general practicioner or family doctor offices is to accept patients that have become the equivilent of members in their practice, somewhat like a country club membership execpt this one is for medical services. The patients pay a fee each year to have access to the practice and they pay any charges other than just wellness exams or consultations with insurance or cash. This is good for the doctors because they have a set number of members and the same doctor has the same patient over time so there is a level of experience with each patient and their doctor...sorta like the old days.
The other side of the coin is for groups of people forming together to create the equivilent of a medical cooperative or co-op. If there were, say 500, people that each put up 1200/yr to form a co-op, they could concievably hire a few MDs for a certain range of services and then have those MDs available to them when ever the need arises, sort of like an on call MD for the co-op members. The current equivilent is group insurance but that is so mogrified that it serves only the investors, delivers minimal coverage for a maximum premium and the whole is rigged and fixed from within in addition to being manipulated by the government...they deliver neither good service to their patients and any efficiencies they offer are offset by the denial of services that may be considered optional or "not covered". A co-op, on the other hand, would likely result in efficiencies in delivery and cost for patients.
Under this new approach, the patient is much more open with the MD and the MD can target his activities to the specific needs of this patient since the MD has a baseline history of the patient already. This style or practice fixes the number of patients to those that are members (until the practice grows and adds more MDs and or space) and the office also becomes a private practice ltd. This increases the level of care and efficiency in delivery that open practices only dream of. Look for this to become the new private medical practice model as it appears to be a considerable evolution in the efficiency of the delivery of medical services.
This type of care would not be universally available but for those that can get access to this type of practice, they will have a necessary service at a reasonable price. Where ever there are efficiencies, savings, better delivery of goods and services with higher quality performance, look for them to be found but they will likely cost more because of the quality. Boomers that need care will either find it as it becomes available or they will create it by demand in the market place such as this new type of practice.Patient needs MD, MD needs patients, and nobody that can avoid it wants to get into the current medical services delivery meat grinder including both MDs and patients. Those ol' boomers got it goin'.
Obama’s Keynesian economics theory proclaims government can spur the economy, government cannot create wealth it can only confiscate it and when it does it destroys jobs. The proof of that is right before our very eyes with stimulus after stimulus. What does work is less government regulation and oppression and fewer taxes; it worked in the sixties under Kennedy, in the eighties under Regan and under Bush 2000. So why are we on this road? It’s easy because it’s the easiest way for socialist to create government power and dependency among the masses. Keynesian economics is the blue to European Socialism and can eventually lead to Marxism... it’s called central planning the equal distribution of misery.
I count my stash alla time cuz I saw in 1972 what today would be.
Every time I got 60 bucks, I bought a $20 gold piece.
Wasn't wrong. Still ain't. There is NO engine of recovery short of complete repudiation of debt and a reset of ANY currency. Zoellick of the World Bank ain't no dummy.
PROSPERITY.... TRUE prosperity can ONLY exist in a sustainably STABLE currency environment. Anything else is smoke and mirrors and everyone knows it. Whether they admit it or not.
Collapse has been the goal of the elite ever since 1913. They're REAL close now.
<< <i>As far as doctors only treating the well. It will also be treating those that have the money. More and more doctors are going VIP. 600 patients x 1500 is close to $900,000. That is the patient limit my doctor accepts. He met his 600 allotment and is no longer accepting new patients. Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements. ... >>
Wow, this thread has come alive!
Until the people of America decide where their hearts truly are, we are stuck with this split-personality/ schizophrenia....
Are we just random, chance, electrical charges, bouncing around, fizzing in a meaningless/purposeless universe, grinding out chemical reactions, which is the official dogma taught in gov't schools (and I'm forced to pay for)? We opted out and educate at home. Cladking rightly and often points out the 'failure' of gov't education (using traditional presuppositions), but then again, that is what Horace Mann and John Dewey envisioned with the Humanist Manifesto (the religion of the gov't schools), and we are getting EXACTLY the product they envisioned.
Or, are we here for a purpose and there is ultimate meaning to life on planet Earth? And, so, people are worth something and not just meandering bits of protoplasm.
Ayn Rand (atheist, rabid individualist) lands in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, from the ditch of Marx (atheist, rabid collectivist) communism. My userid tells where I believe the road is.
I, ego, me, look out for #1, altruism/sacrifice is insanity, Rand and Nietzche could hold hands, Forget about "WE!' look at the Bolshevik experiment vs.
WE, the collective STATE, and individuals are lost into the sea of "US", so we better become Roark's and Rearden's!
How about this? We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union, ... It's COVENANTAL We and I, it's both--and, not either -- or. I didn't vote for Barry, but We did and he's my president, though we hold many antithetical views. I may not support XXX, but when We the People do, I'm included. It's representation.
Now, to the medical application of this philosophy..... what does it look like in real life?
One of my best friends is Vietnamese (now US citizen) and when he goes 'home' to Viet Nam, to seek medical care, he gets a WALLET BIOPSY first (no 3rd party payers like USA), and if positive (gold, USD), then he gets treated. No money, no credit, no treat. That's justice. "But they'll die if not treated!" So what. Humans, blade of grass, glass of water, NO DIFFERENCE. There's a philosophy behind those actions.
What happens at the US Emergency Dept? You know COBRA, EMTALA? No one gets denied. No wallet biopsy first. PEOPLE ARE worth more than grass, it seems. ER docs are forced, by law, (via the will of the people via representatives) to act a certain way OPPOSITE to which they(we) were taught in gov't school.
So, which one will it be?
The Hippocratic Oath is below, Hippocrates was a Greek physician (I love your Freudian slip PF70collector, 'hypocratic', sounds like hypocritic ? LOL Interesting, hypocrite is a Greek word, transformed into its current usage by Jesus of Nazareth.)
I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement: To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
And I'll set up the payment plan the way I best choose, thank you very much. Or, sign up to be a STATE employed physician, if that 's the option of my choosing.
No, I don't do a boutique practice--nor begrudge those who do-- very traditional, semirural, teach interns/residents on my 1/2 day off instead of playing golf. But, I decide to change, that's my choice, where I feel I can do the most good, for the PURPOSE I am left another day on this planet, and still have the breath of life.
edited a couple of typos
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
Thanks for the chuckles everyone. I too wish I was in Montana far away from President "Guess who's coming to dinner" and his socialist thugs. I talked to a buddy in Polson the other day and he said it was a balmy 46 degrees.
But I'm here in Virginia, sweating, bleeding and trying to get replacement windows in a 50 year old house to align correctly. If I can't get these things to line up soon *I'M* going to start blaming the Kenyan Keynesian too!
<< <i>Obama’s Keynesian economics theory proclaims government can spur the economy, government cannot create wealth it can only confiscate it and when it does it destroys jobs. The proof of that is right before our very eyes with stimulus after stimulus. What does work is less government regulation and oppression and fewer taxes; it worked in the sixties under Kennedy, in the eighties under Regan and under Bush 2000. So why are we on this road? It’s easy because it’s the easiest way for socialist to create government power and dependency among the masses. Keynesian economics is the blue to European Socialism and can eventually lead to Marxism... it’s called central planning the equal distribution of misery. >>
<< <i>I call bullelmo, I made more money the last two months than all of last year. We are in a solid recovery and all you mentally ill doom and gloomers need therapy. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. >>
Can I get an admin to delete this duplicate please?
<< <i>I call bullelmo, I made more money the last two months than all of last year. We are in a solid recovery and all you mentally ill doom and gloomers need therapy. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. >>
ER docs are forced, by law, (via the will of the people via representatives) to act a certain way OPPOSITE to which they(we) were taught in gov't school.
Interesting question there. It begs the next question of "Should MDs work for free?". Folks seem that they have a right to good, accessible medical care but I don't see that in the Bill of Rights. If that is the postion that the citizenry is to take on medical care then we should nationalize the practice of medicine in the US, kind of like Cuba does. Seems to me that other than nationalizing medical care we have no choice but to keep it as private enterprise. Private enterprise leads to innovation, efficiencies in care and management of patients, competitive delivery of services, but at a price that the market will bear.
But, it's not just the question of access to adequate medical care for fee or for free, it's much more complicated than that. For example, if you happen to catch the national news msm some evening at 5:30 you will notice that most of the ad placements are for medical products, most noticibly, pharmaceuticals. Selling of medical drugs, either over the counter or by prescription only, is likely a bigger market than the delivery of medical practice services. A $400 or $500 a month pharmacy bill for those over 60 is not unusual and we're talking millions of people here.
It's not just medical drugs though, there's armies of lobbyists for everything from free abortions to artificial knees and everything in between that try to manipulate legislative bodies into favoring their market segment, their products, their philosophy. When delivery of basic medical services is discussed, it actually involves all of the other facets including medicines, devices, research, entitlements, and a huge range of items to include medical malpractice insurance and the attornyes, and associated industries engaged in ambulance chasing that have made the entire industry of civil litigation one of the most recession proof market segments ever devised.
There is also a huge health care insurance industry as well and that industry is without question the 800# gorilla standing next to the punch bowl as they drive much of the legislation that reaches from our county and state governments all the way up to the top. Also, it should be noted that there is very little criminal litigation for medical practices compared with the amount of civil litigation because criminal trials result in some incarceration for defendents if they lose but not necessarily any money for anyone. In civil trials there is actually big cash involved for the insurance companies, for the pharmacies from class action suits, for the attorneys, for all the associated support services for all the above. Don't think that these people that make a living in these areas are without friends in influential places that can help them out with the appropriate legislation.
The recent Health Care Legislation is a good example of how complicated the practice of medicine has become in the US. The bill itself, likely not read in its entirety by anyone much less the folks that voted on it, is so onerous that hundreds of groups, cities, states have received waivers from implimentation or have opted out completely. This legislation was well meaning and had all the right philosophical ticks like, "for the children", for the historically underserved urban populations", "for the elderly", "better for families", "for the moms and the apple pies". But the plan is total BS, well intentioned but BS none the less because there is nothing that does anything to start to pare away at all the other big money industries that are involved in providing acces to medical care. The legislation does little but perpetuate the current situation. It's not just access to medical care, it's more about keeping all the other associated industries firmly attached to the sugar teat. In the end, if the legislation actually survives, it will be paid for by the same schlepps that are out there every day working for a living and not by the ones that have nothing to contribute.
So, if one wants to see a doctor, should it be free or should it be for a fee. If delivery of medical services should be free for those that can't afford it then everybody that will be hooked up to paying for this (those with taxable income) better practice the reverse Heimlich maneuver...bend over. If the delivery of practice should be for anyone that can pay for it either from job benefits or private insurance or some kind of prepaid entitlement like medicare, then we have a game, you just need to figure out how best to play it for yourself because access to good medical services is quite competitive right now and it will be much more that way in the very near future as the boomers exert themselves on the practice of medicine in the US. Medical care is not a right. Where they have made it a right such as in Canada or England, it's more of a nightmare than a right, that's why they all come here for medical services...if they can afford it.
It is good for people to have access to medical services and a public expense for providing that care to those that can't afford access should be a part of every right thinking public govt entity, at a level that the public taxpayer is willing to support that type of largess and if they aren't willing or will vote to fund indigent medical care delivery at a level where everyone gets the care they need when they need it then where does the money come from? On the other hand, we can't have people deliveing babies in the alleys, we can't have people running around in the general public with tuberculosis or aids, and it's actually in our best collective interest to keep public illnesses to a minimum...how can we do that?
<< <i>..... certain to please foreigners in bed. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Gentlemen. Any person is entitled to run for public office.
We do not necessarily have to like them. In fact, for the
past 40 years, we have been electing people from both parties.
They all shared in getting us into the mess we are in. There is so
much blame to go around, I just do not know where to begin. >>
Brother, I am not making any political statement in my post. I do however, take exception to topstuff mentioning pleasing "foreigners" in bed. To me, that smacks of racism and that is why I pointed it out.
Topstuf, with your comment you've managed to change my whole opinion of you in one fell swoop. It's not only racist, but several other gutter swipes all in one comment.
mhammerman - great post!
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Some of you guys are way too sensitive. Sarah Palin is an idiot. >>
Read the rules at the top of this forum. I'd hate to see you get banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Suicide by moderator doesn't make any sense. If you don't like the rules or the forum members here, wouldn't it be just as easy to go away?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
For the record pfc70, I do take your posts seriously and have been in agreement with many on other threads. But, not the poor 9th amendment!!! Please! LOL
<< <i>From the Econ thread: pf70collectorExpert Collector Posts: 4084Joined: Dec 2004 Tuesday May 17, 2011 10:31 AM
Change I would like to see:
A purge of our Congress.
There will be campaign refinance reform where elections will only be publicly funded.
The Supreme Court decision allowing Corporations to contribute to campaigns will be abolished.
Lobbying will be illegal.
Like George Washington who relinquished his power and could have been king, U.S. Senators and Representatives will only be allowed to serve one term. Power corrupts. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
The Federal Reserve will be abolished.
The U.S. Empire will be allowed to crumble bringing it back to the borders of the U.S.
Declaring war will have to by concensus of the U.S. Citizens, not its Representative or Executive Chief.
The U.N. will be thrown out of the USA.
All Foreign Aid will cease and desist.
Manufacturing will come back to the U.S.
We no longer will be exporting our wealth overseas.
A Manhattan Style Project will be implemented finding an alternative energy source which would not make the U.S. dependent on foreign oil. >>
Besides Universal health care coverage, publicly funded, since apparently you believe a fundamental right (we already have universal access, no one gets turned away by law) in addition to M'care & M'caid, I'm interested in what else is on your platform?
Are you going to run for office, or who would you most likely be supporting in 2012? It is a most interesting mix of ideas and I am intrigued.
Most Respectfully,
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
We (America) are in a car going 120mph (before 2006). Then we are told we can only go 75mph (2008). We were use to going 120mph for decades and 75 feels like driving through a city block.
When we started dragging an anchor or two (QE1 & QE2) we found it cost us all more in gas and we couldn't go as fast. Since then we've been struggling along at 50mph with the added drag. Then we notice our water and oil temps going up (2011).
QE3 is when the motor sputters. Then failure. That's when we will have our Great Depression (or hyperinflation-depending on the Fed game plan.) We haven't seen anything yet. It's hard to imagine the damage that will be done to us when the realization that trillions are owed.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I ain't givin up yet
TOPSTUF, I'm sad that you feel the way that you do. I look at it differently but we will need a little 'mixin it up' to get it right again. I'll accept that challange. >>
Me too. I've been on Investor Village since its inception TRYING to get the boobs to see that gold is the ONLY asset that will survive.
A ....few.... have capitulated and wish now they had listened back when I was touting at 400.
But NONE have proposed ANYTHING other than the trite platitudes of US superiority in ingenuity, new technology, etc etc ad infinitum
Collapse is the future. It's rising again as we speak.
Glad I'm old. >>
This is the problem. Some of the greatest productivity increases in history have come
in the last thirty years despite the fact much of the increase in wealth has been destroyed
by the few to make huge profits for a few individuals in the name of "greed is good". Rat-
her than these massive increases in wealth being passed on the the people they have all
been funneled to the top.
It will prove very difficult to right the ship of state because we've sent our jobs and industry
abroad and because the educational system is in shambles. We spend vast amounts of
money not educating children and far vaster amounts not taking care of sick people because
most health care dollars flow to those who lobby Congress rather than the medical profess-
ion.
Empires collapse because people are afraid of change. We have nough slack in the amount
of resources we waste to easily transition over to new ways of doing things and even have
time to educate a new generation to take over in twenty years. But it probably isn't going
to happen because people are afraid of change. Even when they're on the rail car to the gu-
lag they are praying they don't need to switch tracks. Anything is better than the unknown
even if you live in a nightmare world where children don't learn how to read and write and
doctors mostly treat the well.
as best we can. Sure, it may well be very hard and difficult, but what choice
do we have but soldier on. I believe that people on this precious metals forum,
are probably better prepared and more informed about the economy and the
degree of Governmental misrule for the past 40 years. Stacking PMs, is not the
worst way, to spend ones time.
Camelot
<< <i>Don't worry, be happy - The Chosen One is in charge - go back to sleep.
"there will be bumps on the road to recovery"
"There's still some headwinds that are coming at us"
The Annointed One....BHO
6/3/11
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class).
<< <i>For those who believe there is no longer innovation (and industry) in the US, I would recommend a subscription to Wired Magazine.
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class). >>
that
In general, when prices are falling, no one ever wants to buy, even if they see a bargain. When prices are rising, everyone want to buy even if they say "this is crazy".
Hetty Green said it best - "buy when there is blood in the streets", or was that J.P. Morgan.
Anyway, I would say try and find a good home cheap, don't try and steal a home, you'll probably buy someone else's lemon.
Storm- I've been short the market for a few months now. The trade is FINALLY bright green now. It's been a challenge, Yes, I get your point in spades. However, I firmly believe that you have to take a shot at big picture homerun trades when they present themselves. ( Nassim Taleb if you will). I may yet be wrong.............streeter, great stuff.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>This thread is most interesting. Topstuf - glad you chimed in. Really good stuff.......
Storm- I've been short the market for a few months now. The trade is FINALLY bright green now. It's been a challenge, Yes, I get your point in spades. However, I firmly believe that you have to take a shot at big picture homerun trades when they present themselves. ( Nassim Taleb if you will). I may yet be wrong.............streeter, great stuff.
MJ >>
Thanks for throwin in those last three words DUDE
And TOPSTUFF....how in the heck did he find time to pull himself away from countin the stack? 40 hours a week countin his money, tough job.
Drop a G friday.
regards for the weekend
<< <i>For those who believe there is no longer innovation (and industry) in the US, I would recommend a subscription to Wired Magazine.
The thesis of the most recent cover story is that there is a new wave of innovative sweeping the US. This wave of innovation is both wide (in that it involves a tremendous array of industries) and deep (in the sense that it will benefit not just a few brilliant entrepreneurs, but a resurgent middle class). >>
Shussh!!! Dont you know thinking about the end of life as we know it is much more pleasurable?
Come on people, the world isnt going to end and the dollar is not going to zero. Will the USA (and Europe) finally have to live within its means? Yup, and thankfully so. Will this cause pain and dispair? Yes, and thankfully so.
Today, everyone of us lives better than our forefathers. And our great grandchildren will say the same 3 generations from now. The problem is that today, very few of us have ever had to "sacrifice". Very few have fought in a war. Very few have lived 3 generations to a household. Very few have gone hungry for a night. So its about time we finally bite the bullet and take the medicine our forefathers did. It wont kill us, but will make us better and stronger. From desperation comes innovation. Unfortunately we are not even close to desperation, but it will come. Unbrace it, dont fear it.
Read this, better yet, listen to it.
Or watch it
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>And I'm sick of hearing...'it's over'...............cause it ain't. It's only over for the people who can't create value for the marketplace. 'The I give ups' >>
Word.
I just got a job offer from a startup at 17% above my current salary. Every day, people still take shots at creating the things the marketplace wants to buy. And the smart money *funds them*.
The world has not stopped turning just because some old has-beens can't see beyond the shrinking purchasing power of their time accounts. Good Lord.
Bullion good, and bullion fine, but first take care of biz...
<< <i>GoingBroke: Tucson is much firmer market than Phoenix, but that is not saying much. I think there are terrific bargains here.
In general, when prices are falling, no one ever wants to buy, even if they see a bargain. When prices are rising, everyone want to buy even if they say "this is crazy".
Hetty Green said it best - "buy when there is blood in the streets", or was that J.P. Morgan.
Anyway, I would say try and find a good home cheap, don't try and steal a home, you'll probably buy someone else's lemon. >>
I think we will be looking at new homes in the Saddle brook area near Tucson. It looks like its far enough for quiet time and yet close enough to town for supply.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
I also agree that when you see all that QE2 injected into an anemic stock market the endgame will soon be here.
Box of 20
<< <i>As far as doctors only treating the well. It will also be treating those that have the money. More and more doctors are going VIP. 600 patients x 1500 is close to $900,000. That is the patient limit my doctor accepts. He met his 600 allotment and is no longer accepting new patients. Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements. I also agree that when you see all that QE2 injected into an anemic stock market the endgame will soon be here. >>
$1500 might seem stiff, but it's fairly cheap considering how fast medical insurance is rising. My insurance plan went up that same amount this year. I'd be happy to fork over the Doctor's $1500 fee if they could somehow negotiate a fair price for medical insurance for their group of 600 patients.
roadrunner
Many MD offices now have a new business model and the model is evolving quickly and becoming very popular. The improved model for the general practicioner or family doctor offices is to accept patients that have become the equivilent of members in their practice, somewhat like a country club membership execpt this one is for medical services. The patients pay a fee each year to have access to the practice and they pay any charges other than just wellness exams or consultations with insurance or cash. This is good for the doctors because they have a set number of members and the same doctor has the same patient over time so there is a level of experience with each patient and their doctor...sorta like the old days.
The other side of the coin is for groups of people forming together to create the equivilent of a medical cooperative or co-op. If there were, say 500, people that each put up 1200/yr to form a co-op, they could concievably hire a few MDs for a certain range of services and then have those MDs available to them when ever the need arises, sort of like an on call MD for the co-op members. The current equivilent is group insurance but that is so mogrified that it serves only the investors, delivers minimal coverage for a maximum premium and the whole is rigged and fixed from within in addition to being manipulated by the government...they deliver neither good service to their patients and any efficiencies they offer are offset by the denial of services that may be considered optional or "not covered". A co-op, on the other hand, would likely result in efficiencies in delivery and cost for patients.
Under this new approach, the patient is much more open with the MD and the MD can target his activities to the specific needs of this patient since the MD has a baseline history of the patient already. This style or practice fixes the number of patients to those that are members (until the practice grows and adds more MDs and or space) and the office also becomes a private practice ltd. This increases the level of care and efficiency in delivery that open practices only dream of. Look for this to become the new private medical practice model as it appears to be a considerable evolution in the efficiency of the delivery of medical services.
This type of care would not be universally available but for those that can get access to this type of practice, they will have a necessary service at a reasonable price. Where ever there are efficiencies, savings, better delivery of goods and services with higher quality performance, look for them to be found but they will likely cost more because of the quality. Boomers that need care will either find it as it becomes available or they will create it by demand in the market place such as this new type of practice.Patient needs MD, MD needs patients, and nobody that can avoid it wants to get into the current medical services delivery meat grinder including both MDs and patients. Those ol' boomers got it goin'.
Every time I got 60 bucks, I bought a $20 gold piece.
Wasn't wrong. Still ain't. There is NO engine of recovery short of complete repudiation of debt and a reset of ANY currency.
Zoellick of the World Bank ain't no dummy.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/world-bank-president-robert-zoellick-calls-return-old-money-gold-standard
Even though he ...sorta...back pedaled after what I would imagine was a STORM of repercussions.
http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=6055&lotNo=52110&type=amer6055-temaa060311
PROSPERITY.... TRUE prosperity can ONLY exist in a sustainably STABLE currency environment.
Anything else is smoke and mirrors and everyone knows it. Whether they admit it or not.
Collapse has been the goal of the elite ever since 1913. They're REAL close now.
why can't this forum hyperlink directly? grrr LOL
<< <i>As far as doctors only treating the well. It will also be treating those that have the money. More and more doctors are going VIP. 600 patients x 1500 is close to $900,000. That is the patient limit my doctor accepts. He met his 600 allotment and is no longer accepting new patients. Screw their hypocratic oath, you have to have at least $1500 a year just for the priviege of seeing them. Soon they will begin to refuse to see the elderly because of low medicare reimbursements. ... >>
Wow, this thread has come alive!
Until the people of America decide where their hearts truly are, we are stuck with this split-personality/ schizophrenia....
Are we just random, chance, electrical charges, bouncing around, fizzing in a meaningless/purposeless universe, grinding out chemical reactions, which is the official dogma taught in gov't schools (and I'm forced to pay for)? We opted out and educate at home. Cladking rightly and often points out the 'failure' of gov't education (using traditional presuppositions), but then again, that is what Horace Mann and John Dewey envisioned with the Humanist Manifesto (the religion of the gov't schools), and we are getting EXACTLY the product they envisioned.
Or, are we here for a purpose and there is ultimate meaning to life on planet Earth? And, so, people are worth something and not just meandering bits of protoplasm.
Ayn Rand (atheist, rabid individualist) lands in the ditch on the opposite side of the road, from the ditch of Marx (atheist, rabid collectivist) communism. My userid tells where I believe the road is.
I, ego, me, look out for #1, altruism/sacrifice is insanity, Rand and Nietzche could hold hands, Forget about "WE!' look at the Bolshevik experiment vs.
WE, the collective STATE, and individuals are lost into the sea of "US", so we better become Roark's and Rearden's!
How about this? We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union, ... It's COVENANTAL We and I, it's both--and, not either -- or. I didn't vote for Barry, but We did and he's my president, though we hold many antithetical views. I may not support XXX, but when We the People do, I'm included. It's representation.
Now, to the medical application of this philosophy..... what does it look like in real life?
One of my best friends is Vietnamese (now US citizen) and when he goes 'home' to Viet Nam, to seek medical care, he gets a WALLET BIOPSY first (no 3rd party payers like USA), and if positive (gold, USD), then he gets treated. No money, no credit, no treat. That's justice. "But they'll die if not treated!" So what. Humans, blade of grass, glass of water, NO DIFFERENCE. There's a philosophy behind those actions.
What happens at the US Emergency Dept? You know COBRA, EMTALA? No one gets denied. No wallet biopsy first. PEOPLE ARE worth more than grass, it seems. ER docs are forced, by law, (via the will of the people via representatives) to act a certain way OPPOSITE to which they(we) were taught in gov't school.
So, which one will it be?
The Hippocratic Oath is below, Hippocrates was a Greek physician (I love your Freudian slip PF70collector, 'hypocratic', sounds like hypocritic ? LOL Interesting, hypocrite is a Greek word, transformed into its current usage by Jesus of Nazareth.)
I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
And I'll set up the payment plan the way I best choose, thank you very much. Or, sign up to be a STATE employed physician, if that 's the option of my choosing.
No, I don't do a boutique practice--nor begrudge those who do-- very traditional, semirural, teach interns/residents on my 1/2 day off instead of playing golf. But, I decide to change, that's my choice, where I feel I can do the most good, for the PURPOSE I am left another day on this planet, and still have the breath of life.
edited a couple of typos
But I'm here in Virginia, sweating, bleeding and trying to get replacement windows in a 50 year old house to align correctly. If I can't get these things to line up soon *I'M* going to start blaming the Kenyan Keynesian too!
<< <i>Obama’s Keynesian economics theory proclaims government can spur the economy, government cannot create wealth it can only confiscate it and when it does it destroys jobs. The proof of that is right before our very eyes with stimulus after stimulus. What does work is less government regulation and oppression and fewer taxes; it worked in the sixties under Kennedy, in the eighties under Regan and under Bush 2000. So why are we on this road? It’s easy because it’s the easiest way for socialist to create government power and dependency among the masses. Keynesian economics is the blue to European Socialism and can eventually lead to Marxism... it’s called central planning the equal distribution of misery. >>
Can "lead" to it?
You might want to give this one a read:
America's heritage forsaken
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>I call bullelmo, I made more money the last two months than all of last year. We are in a solid recovery and all you mentally ill doom and gloomers need therapy. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. >>
Can I get an admin to delete this duplicate please?
<< <i>I call bullelmo, I made more money the last two months than all of last year. We are in a solid recovery and all you mentally ill doom and gloomers need therapy. I prepare for the worst and hope for the best. >>
Why the greatest depression of all time has begun
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
All political parties share in our present misery. It was actually lack of governmental oversite
that led to much of the economic damage. Since we poor dumb SOB have elected incompetent
leaders for over 40 years, I guess that we are as much to blame as the Washington crooks.
We are in for a tough 10 -20 years of misery, but the world will not come to an end. Might have to
get used to beans and franks, pasta and salads for a long time, but perhaps we all can lose some wight
in the process.
Camelot
ER docs are forced, by law, (via the will of the people via representatives) to act a certain way OPPOSITE to which they(we) were taught in gov't school.
So freedom of choice to deny care?
Box of 20
<< <i>All political parties share in our present misery. It was actually lack of governmental oversite
that led to much of the economic damage. >>
You are a wise old bear!
But, shhhh, you might ruin the pity party the neo-cons are having blaming Obama for all of our troubles.
Nevermind the fact that the much-maligned bailouts and stimulus packages began under the previous administration.
Interesting question there. It begs the next question of "Should MDs work for free?". Folks seem that they have a right to good, accessible medical care but I don't see that in the Bill of Rights. If that is the postion that the citizenry is to take on medical care then we should nationalize the practice of medicine in the US, kind of like Cuba does. Seems to me that other than nationalizing medical care we have no choice but to keep it as private enterprise. Private enterprise leads to innovation, efficiencies in care and management of patients, competitive delivery of services, but at a price that the market will bear.
But, it's not just the question of access to adequate medical care for fee or for free, it's much more complicated than that. For example, if you happen to catch the national news msm some evening at 5:30 you will notice that most of the ad placements are for medical products, most noticibly, pharmaceuticals. Selling of medical drugs, either over the counter or by prescription only, is likely a bigger market than the delivery of medical practice services. A $400 or $500 a month pharmacy bill for those over 60 is not unusual and we're talking millions of people here.
It's not just medical drugs though, there's armies of lobbyists for everything from free abortions to artificial knees and everything in between that try to manipulate legislative bodies into favoring their market segment, their products, their philosophy. When delivery of basic medical services is discussed, it actually involves all of the other facets including medicines, devices, research, entitlements, and a huge range of items to include medical malpractice insurance and the attornyes, and associated industries engaged in ambulance chasing that have made the entire industry of civil litigation one of the most recession proof market segments ever devised.
There is also a huge health care insurance industry as well and that industry is without question the 800# gorilla standing next to the punch bowl as they drive much of the legislation that reaches from our county and state governments all the way up to the top. Also, it should be noted that there is very little criminal litigation for medical practices compared with the amount of civil litigation because criminal trials result in some incarceration for defendents if they lose but not necessarily any money for anyone. In civil trials there is actually big cash involved for the insurance companies, for the pharmacies from class action suits, for the attorneys, for all the associated support services for all the above. Don't think that these people that make a living in these areas are without friends in influential places that can help them out with the appropriate legislation.
The recent Health Care Legislation is a good example of how complicated the practice of medicine has become in the US. The bill itself, likely not read in its entirety by anyone much less the folks that voted on it, is so onerous that hundreds of groups, cities, states have received waivers from implimentation or have opted out completely. This legislation was well meaning and had all the right philosophical ticks like, "for the children", for the historically underserved urban populations", "for the elderly", "better for families", "for the moms and the apple pies". But the plan is total BS, well intentioned but BS none the less because there is nothing that does anything to start to pare away at all the other big money industries that are involved in providing acces to medical care. The legislation does little but perpetuate the current situation. It's not just access to medical care, it's more about keeping all the other associated industries firmly attached to the sugar teat. In the end, if the legislation actually survives, it will be paid for by the same schlepps that are out there every day working for a living and not by the ones that have nothing to contribute.
So, if one wants to see a doctor, should it be free or should it be for a fee. If delivery of medical services should be free for those that can't afford it then everybody that will be hooked up to paying for this (those with taxable income) better practice the reverse Heimlich maneuver...bend over. If the delivery of practice should be for anyone that can pay for it either from job benefits or private insurance or some kind of prepaid entitlement like medicare, then we have a game, you just need to figure out how best to play it for yourself because access to good medical services is quite competitive right now and it will be much more that way in the very near future as the boomers exert themselves on the practice of medicine in the US. Medical care is not a right. Where they have made it a right such as in Canada or England, it's more of a nightmare than a right, that's why they all come here for medical services...if they can afford it.
It is good for people to have access to medical services and a public expense for providing that care to those that can't afford access should be a part of every right thinking public govt entity, at a level that the public taxpayer is willing to support that type of largess and if they aren't willing or will vote to fund indigent medical care delivery at a level where everyone gets the care they need when they need it then where does the money come from? On the other hand, we can't have people deliveing babies in the alleys, we can't have people running around in the general public with tuberculosis or aids, and it's actually in our best collective interest to keep public illnesses to a minimum...how can we do that?
SARAH PALIN !!!!!
Wisdom, unassailable logic, experience, intelligence, tolerant, forward thinking, good figure, certain to please foreigners in bed.
<< <i>..... certain to please foreigners in bed. >>
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>...certain to please foreigners in bed. >>
Brother, I know I'm slow, but, for the life of me, I can't figure out what point you are trying to make with a statement like that.
<< <i>
SARAH PALIN !!!!!
certain to please foreigners in bed. >>
Sorry that your mother didn't raise you better.
<< <i>Some of you guys are way too sensitive. Sarah Palin is an idiot. >>
And you aren't??? Take a hike jerk!
Hmmmmm, interesting.
Camelot
<< <i>No I'm actually quite intelligent. And some of you guys are WAY too sensitive. >>
You're still a jerk.
We do not necessarily have to like them. In fact, for the
past 40 years, we have been electing people from both parties.
They all shared in getting us into the mess we are in. There is so
much blame to go around, I just do not know where to begin.
Camelot
<< <i>No I'm actually quite intelligent... >>
Barry??? Is that you?
<< <i>Gentlemen. Any person is entitled to run for public office.
We do not necessarily have to like them. In fact, for the
past 40 years, we have been electing people from both parties.
They all shared in getting us into the mess we are in. There is so
much blame to go around, I just do not know where to begin. >>
Brother, I am not making any political statement in my post. I do however, take exception to topstuff mentioning pleasing "foreigners" in bed. To me, that smacks of racism and that is why I pointed it out.
mhammerman - great post!
I knew it would happen.
Society evolves. I can see an argument that the 9th amendment could be used to make it a right.
9th Amendment
Box of 20
<< <i>Some of you guys are way too sensitive. Sarah Palin is an idiot. >>
Read the rules at the top of this forum. I'd hate to see you get banned.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Enjoy your Tupperware party ladies.
<< <i>Ban me please! Seriously...kill my account.
Enjoy your Tupperware party ladies. >>
Suicide by moderator doesn't make any sense. If you don't like the rules or the forum members here, wouldn't it be just as easy to go away?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Ban me please! Seriously...kill my account.
Enjoy your Tupperware party ladies. >>
Bye.
<< <i>Ban me please! Seriously...kill my account.
Enjoy your Tupperware party ladies. >>
Nice edit.
That post required an edit? Let me guess, misspelled 'Tupperware' as "Tuporwear"the first time?
<< <i>Folks seem that they have a right to good, accessible medical care but I don't see that in the Bill of Rights.
Society evolves. I can see an argument that the 9th amendment could be used to make it a right.
9th Amendment >>
For the record pfc70, I do take your posts seriously and have been in agreement with many on other threads. But, not the poor 9th amendment!!! Please! LOL
<< <i>From the Econ thread: pf70collectorExpert Collector Posts: 4084Joined: Dec 2004 Tuesday May 17, 2011 10:31 AM
Change I would like to see:
A purge of our Congress.
There will be campaign refinance reform where elections will only be publicly funded.
The Supreme Court decision allowing Corporations to contribute to campaigns will be abolished.
Lobbying will be illegal.
Like George Washington who relinquished his power and could have been king, U.S. Senators and Representatives will only be allowed to serve one term. Power corrupts. "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
The Federal Reserve will be abolished.
The U.S. Empire will be allowed to crumble bringing it back to the borders of the U.S.
Declaring war will have to by concensus of the U.S. Citizens, not its Representative or Executive Chief.
The U.N. will be thrown out of the USA.
All Foreign Aid will cease and desist.
Manufacturing will come back to the U.S.
We no longer will be exporting our wealth overseas.
A Manhattan Style Project will be implemented finding an alternative energy source which would not make the U.S. dependent on foreign oil. >>
Besides Universal health care coverage, publicly funded, since apparently you believe a fundamental right (we already have universal access, no one gets turned away by law) in addition to M'care & M'caid, I'm interested in what else is on your platform?
Are you going to run for office, or who would you most likely be supporting in 2012? It is a most interesting mix of ideas and I am intrigued.
Most Respectfully,
When we started dragging an anchor or two (QE1 & QE2) we found it cost us all more in gas and we couldn't go as fast. Since then we've been struggling along at 50mph with the added drag. Then we notice our water and oil temps going up (2011).
QE3 is when the motor sputters. Then failure. That's when we will have our Great Depression (or hyperinflation-depending on the Fed game plan.) We haven't seen anything yet. It's hard to imagine the damage that will be done to us when the realization that trillions are owed.
r95