Please Help. I want to learn as much as possible about proofs circa 1850's through 1900.

PutTogether

What books do I buy, what forum members do I pester, what newsletters do I subscribe to, and once I've got my footing........what dealers do I buy from?

Any and all information is appreciated.


I want to learn about history, methods, grading, which years come 'nice' which are lackluster. I literally want to spend the next couple of months learning, and buying books.

Obviously there is no substitute for looking at a bunch of coins in person.......but there are always things to look for, and really great tips, and tricks that can accelerate the learning curve.

I know one thing that has always disappointed me with proofs from the 30s through the 50s is how dramatically different they look from photograph to in hand. To some degree, the same seems to be true for seated and barber proofs......the few I've examined in person. What seems bright, deep, and dramatic in a photo is often gray and lifeless in hand, unless tilted JUST right....

Another thing I've noticed with 30s and 40s proofs......... below PR64 is just a MESS of hairlines. I know classic proofs weren't always well taken care of, but some are just disgusting with how many times they've been dipped, how badly they've been handled. I've noticed that PR64 is the tipping point where you might get a nice one, might get a bunch of hairlines. Below that, and you are almost assured a mass of scratchy looking, mirror impairing lines. Does this hold true with Barber and Seated coinage, Liberty and Shield Nickels, etc etc?

I'm going to be able to make Long Beach on saturday.......anyone want to show me around, or tell me what dealers to check out for some brain picking? As soon as I get my bearings, I'd like to start making some purchases. I'm getting to the point in my life where I can start to spend real money on coins, and I've ALWAYS thought classic proofs were really, really neat.

yosclimber

How about:
"Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of United States and Colonial Proof Coins, 1722-1989" (340 pages).

ambro51

Many Auction Catalogs have extensive runs of early proof coinage, frequently from the top collections. The writeups, along with the photos, will teach you a LOT.

BillJones

<< <i>How about:
"Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of United States and Colonial Proof Coins, 1722-1989" (340 pages). >>



Yes, the Breen book is the best single source for information concerning United States Proof coins. There are two editions. The original is in hardcover and used to be expensive (over $100) and hard to find. I think that the prices have come down on that. The second edition is a large paperback which included some additional information about the modern Proofs that were issued between the publications of the two editions.

Beyond that I would agree with you that many 19th and early 20th century Proof coins that are graded below PR-64 are disappointing. The best of the lower grade pieces are original, undipped coins that have only some hairlines and not major marks or spots. Coins from this era were stored in velvet lined trays or envelops. Movement of the coins over these surfaces caused hairlines and lowered the grade.

Another area of concern is excessive toning. Choice original toning that provides interesting colors and allows the Proof mirrors to shine through is the ideal. There are some original coins that have toning that is so deep that the mirrors are now badly or totally muted. I avoid such coins, but you will find them graded as high as PR-66 and even 67.

There are two markets for these silver Proof coins. Collectors who want white coins will almost invariably end up buying pieces that have been dipped. Original surface coins are much more desirable IMO, and are worth the premiums, within reason, that you have to pay for them.

If you are interested in Proof gold coins (The prices will make you gasp.) the Encyclopedia of U.S. Gold Coins 1795 - 1933 by Jeff Garrett and Ron Guth is outstanding. It has write-up and pictures of every coin.

BUT remember the only way to really learn about Proof coins is to look at as many pieces as possible IN PERSON. Pictures can take you only so far.

astrorat

<< <i>Many Auction Catalogs have extensive runs of early proof coinage, frequently from the top collections. The writeups, along with the photos, will teach you a LOT. >>

That's true with select catalogs. Most of the catalogs have "revised" versions of the same contents. In researching the provenance of 1876-CC twenty-cent pieces I was sadly disappointed at the lack of original content by "top" auction companies. Look to Bowers and Merena (earlier as Bowers and Ruddy) and ANR (American Numismatic Rarities) for the best new knowledge from catalogs on federal coinage.

astrorat

<< <i>How about:
"Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of United States and Colonial Proof Coins, 1722-1989" (340 pages). >>

This is still the best, single source. But Breen's work is not perfect, it's just the best out there to date.

streeter

Years ago I bought some older proof coins in PR63 & PR64 in non pcgs/ngc holders but nontheless 'respected' holders --SIGHT UNSEEN- except for the photo---and WHEW--was I disappointed. On one PR63 near cameo barber..there was graffitti on the coin that could not be seen unless rotated. I didn't see it(why is that a suprise) until a dealer pointed it out to me.

The only thing that saved me on these mistakes was the market from 2003-2009.

After my experiences, I would NEVER buy an older proof unless I was able to rotate it under my light. Seated cameo proofs can take your breath away but you have to pay up.

tradedollarnut

The one thing that always struck me is that the Mint could indeed make a proof if it really wanted to ... starting in the 1820's. Now that's impressive!



Also try Bowers' silver dollar encyclopedia [the big one] volume 1. He writes extensively on proofs starting with the Gobrechts and bust novodels and carrying on through the Seateds and Trades.

Bayard1908

<< <i>

<< <i>How about:
"Walter Breen's Encyclopedia of United States and Colonial Proof Coins, 1722-1989" (340 pages). >>



Yes, the Breen book is the best single source for information concerning United States Proof coins. There are two editions. The original is in hardcover and used to be expensive (over $100) and hard to find. I think that the prices have come down on that. The second edition is a large paperback which included some additional information about the modern Proofs that were issued between the publications of the two editions. >>



Although sometimes listed for moon money, this book can be found on eBay for $25 to $50. I own both editions. If I remember correctly, the revised edition has a list of the known errors in the first edition, but no other new information.

Sonorandesertrat

You may also want to consider buying copies of the Heritage catalogs (2) for the auction of the Boca Collection.

Bayard1908

There are some very attractive PR63 silver coins on the market. The difference between PR63 and higher grade silver is often just a function of reflectivity. A selective buyer can also find some appealing coins in PR62 with flaws that are not distracting.

A copper-nickel PR63 probably has some spots or roughness though.

AuroraBorealis

<< <i>The one thing that always struck me is that the Mint could indeed make a proof if it really wanted to ... starting in the 1820's. Now that's impressive!



Also try Bowers' silver dollar encyclopedia [the big one] volume 1. He writes extensively on proofs starting with the Gobrechts and bust novodels and carrying on through the Seateds and Trades. >>



DAY-UM! TDN every time i think i own some cool stuff you post something like this! That needs a definite MOOSE alert...

PutTogether proofs can be amazing to collect...I love mirrors! Indian Pennies are a series that have some beautiful coins in proofs...I try and collect those that have an iridescent look even when laying flat...Sometimes not easy when pressured into finding a certain date but very common to have to tip em just right to have them really POP...They are however a little later dates then 30`s-50`s ...
Also another way to go with proofs and something i enjoy are putting together those that have cameo...I love mirrors and contrast!
Here`s a few examples...One of my proof cameo set and the other of my Injuns...

Good luck with your building of proofs and have fun!

AB

MrEureka

Spend some time in the Heritage archives and on Coinfacts.