Toning Premiums

gettyongo12

I asked my wife about this topic the other day. She, as much as I, agree that paying over 200% for a coin because of its toning is a lot. We both came to the conclusion that a 50% markup is fair, but 200% and above is not. With this said, I still see $70 morgans with some pretty wild toning selling for 10x their value! Why do people pay so much for color, especially on ebay??

RedTiger

At auction, the hammer price is set by the two highest bidders, not what the consensus might agree to be fair. One bidder might think a 50% premium is justified for a given coin. Another might think 200%, a third might think 500% because they've looked a thousands of coins and the one being auctioned is one of the best of the best. Again, the hammer price will be set by the two highest bidders. Many collectors prefer white coins and would say -20% or -30% for some coins. Indeed, that may be a fair price to them, but they aren't setting the price at auction because they are not going to be the high bidders.

The auction prices set the bar, and dealers price their retail inventory accordingly.

Bochiman

<< <i>I asked my wife about this topic the other day. She, as much as I, agree that paying over 200% for a coin because of its toning is a lot. We both came to the conclusion that a 50% markup is fair, but 200% and above is not. With this said, I still see $70 morgans with some pretty wild toning selling for 10x their value! Why do people pay so much for color, especially on ebay?? >>



You should go back and do some searches....there is a lot about this, and other topics, in previous threads.

What it boils down to is usually:

* Pay what you feel is comfortable
* Everyone is entitled to ask/pay what they want
* For true toning, they are often 1 of a kind type pieces and are priced as such
* Everyone has a different amount for "discretionary" purchases
* The market is what the market is and if they are selling for the higher prices, then there is a market for them at that price.

I've paid 500% markup on some toned purchases (raw dimes that should have been ~$4 that I paid around $20 for because I liked their looks and couldn't find them easily otherwise).
Other times, I refuse to pay much of a premium (maybe a few bucks on a $200+ coins).

It is what it is and, to me, the toning can be worth it if you enjoy it, really like it, and it adds to the coin (rather than really dark/splotchy toning that subtracts from the coin's appeal (to me)). Also, I never pay for toning what I can't afford to completely lose.

Kove

Naturally, the premium varies given the colors involved and the amount of surface area covered, tempered by personal taste. Most of what others pay high premiums on, I shrug at. Where you see the moon money show up is when everyone's personal tastes align on a certain coin. Personally, I keep my wallet closed until I see a really nice coin, and then I'm willing to pay up.

I think these things go in cycles, and toning has been "in" for several years. There will come a time when white coins become all the rage again, and premiums for toning will go down for all but the most spectacular coins. Spectacular toned coins will always be in demand.

coinkid855

I just sold an awesome rainbow toned coin for well over a 1000% premium. The premium for toning is whatever somebody is willing to pay.


-Paul

BG

Only pay what you feel comfortable with. Will you make a profit on resale? I've been hurt in the past. Wild color is not all that.

CCC2010

One should also consider how hard it is to find really incredible toning on a particular series. Do you see toned examples on that series all the time? Yes on Morgans,Franklins etc. But pieces like the Peace Dollar etc. are not so easy to find. So is it worth paying the premium? For me it is.

llafoe

That's why there aren't a lot of women collecting coins... they use their brains and not their pride!

Coins911

I will gladly pay 10x for most toned proof lincolns. Send them my way.

ianrussell

<< <i>
I've paid 500% markup on some toned purchases (raw dimes that should have been ~$4 that I paid around $20 for because I liked their looks and couldn't find them easily otherwise).
Other times, I refuse to pay much of a premium (maybe a few bucks on a $200+ coins).
>>



Yes, that is the key. A set percentage doesn't work for monster toned coins.

Just like a set % doesn't work for the price difference between every MS-63 and MS-64.

- Ian

Bochiman

I just paid some premium for some toned coins......for shame for shame on me......

Bear

I never really understood what premium to place on toning.

I just pay up until the pain becomes too great in my pocket

for me to bear.

AuroraBorealis

<< <i>I never really understood what premium to place on toning.

I just pay up until the pain becomes too great in my pocket

for me to bear. >>






AB

291fifth

I let my local dealers be my guide. Most pay no premiums for toning and that sounds like a good amount to me.

ricko

Ah... the voice of reason.... Cheers, RickO

ambro51

In not a fan of excessive and unusual toning, but for instance the 1880 O that Julian had listed on ebay for 37K had the old natural encrusted ring toning that screams originality to me. Not that Im in the toned morgan market, but if I was...thats the type of toning Id be looking for, rather than these Peter Max toners.

High priced toners are a House of Cards though........

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>I let my local dealers be my guide. Most pay no premiums for toning and that sounds like a good amount to me. >>



But do they charge a premium when they sell them?

notwilight

You and your wife pulled a number arbitrarily from thin air. the open market takes the arbitrary numbers that all of the buyers out there are willing to pull from thin air and processes them into a market price. unfortunately, you're priced out at your number. --jerry

Cougar1978

I think it involves how heated the bidding can get. I don't pay big premiums on toned coins bc what one may be able to realize is very unpredictable.

I do buy some toned coins under $100 for fun and will usually tack on a $25 premium like I do for CAC. The bottom line is you have to find a buyer who will pay a premium if that's how your pricing it. Many people want coins that are brillinat, white. I will have people ask my about an item in my ebay store "is it 100% white?" about a coin that has obvious outstanding cartwheel luster. A friend, Harry got tired of these ("where do these people wander in from") questions and asked back "Well I dunno, did they store these in a vacuum 100 years ago?" The reality is unless it was dipped yesterday, it probably is not 100% white.

RichieURich

I've seen common date Morgans in MS-65 sell for over $5K if they are outrageously beautiful toners. What's a regular MS-65 worth, less than $100? So that is a 5,000% premium.

Price is whatever someone is willing to pay, whether it is for an outrageous toner or a major rarity.

CoinRaritiesOnline

<< <i>You and your wife pulled a number arbitrarily from thin air. the open market takes the arbitrary numbers that all of the buyers out there are willing to pull from thin air and processes them into a market price. unfortunately, you're priced out at your number. --jerry >>



I really like this answer, even if it was posted about 2 years ago.

vibr0nic

<< <i>I asked my wife about this topic the other day. She, as much as I, agree that paying over 200% for a coin because of its toning is a lot. We both came to the conclusion that a 50% markup is fair, but 200% and above is not. With this said, I still see $70 morgans with some pretty wild toning selling for 10x their value! Why do people pay so much for color, especially on ebay?? >>



Many people also don't understand the fortunes that people pay for rare cars, or comics, or sports memorabilia, or gems, or artwork. It's all the same thing. The only people who will ever understand "crazy" prices paid for a particular class of collectibles will be those who are truly passionate about it. If the prices people are paying for a type of collectible doesn't make sense to you, it's probably because you simply aren't as passionate about it as they are. A passionate enthusiast for ANYTHING will ALWAYS pay more than a non-enthusiast would deem reasonable.

Edit: just realized this is a revived thread from two years ago. Whoops

coinguy1989

<< <i>At auction, the hammer price is set by the two highest bidders, not what the consensus might agree to be fair. One bidder might think a 50% premium is justified for a given coin. Another might think 200%, a third might think 500% because they've looked a thousands of coins and the one being auctioned is one of the best of the best. Again, the hammer price will be set by the two highest bidders. Many collectors prefer white coins and would say -20% or -30% for some coins. Indeed, that may be a fair price to them, but they aren't setting the price at auction because they are not going to be the high bidders.

The auction prices set the bar, and dealers price their retail inventory accordingly. >>



When the same type of coins consistently sell for large premiums over and over, I would argue that a consensus was formed.

braddick

The type of coins that are easily purchased from dealers with no premium attached are exactly the type of coins that months or years later, when it becomes time to sell attractive very little attention.

shylock

This reminds me of sports fans who argue about the value of free agents. They are worth whatever two or more owners value their talents.

If you are a lover of toning, and yes its an acquired taste, adds a whole new dimension to coin collecting beyond the grade not unlike a piece of art.
It's totally subjective but often hits a note with many and when it does look out - the combination of technical and artistic merit can drive a coin price through the roof.

uofa1285

Rich, where are you getting your 65 Morgans for less than $100?