Hoping for the best...preparing for the worst...Tracking # added.

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 1:56AM

Bought a couple of cards on the bay this weekend for "really" good prices. PSA 9's 60 and 64 Mays. I paid by CC through PAYPAL so I should be in okay shape just in case. The seller had another nice card; but almost $2000 already has me nervous. I'm hoping this is good to go. Scans were very good of the front and perfect feedback so keeping fingers crossed.

pdub1819 · May 23, 2011 2:01AM

Let's see the scans!

FavreFan1971 · May 23, 2011 2:11AM

Link the auctions? If I am correct $1100 for the 1960 Mays is about half price. That is a screaming deal.

JHS5120 · May 23, 2011 4:38AM

He's recycling photos from VCP but it could be innocent.

OckhamsRazor · May 23, 2011 5:05AM

PM Sent

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 6:50AM

Needless to say....I'll be contacting EBAY and PAYPAL in the next 24 hrs. When things are too good to be true they usually are. Has there been a report on the boards of these particular cards stolen?

Mickey71

OAKESY25 · May 23, 2011 7:06AM

sorry to hear that..

I think there was a thread a while ago about this card but not 100%

Stone193 · May 23, 2011 7:11AM

Superb cards! Good luck.

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 7:55AM

Change 998. Now I'm being informed that the cards were not stolen. All this after me calling EBAY and telling this big story about the cards being stolen from a board members' house, etc. If the cards don't arrive....then I'll let EBAY/PAYPAL figure it out.

HeritageAddict · May 23, 2011 7:57AM

I hope those exact cards show up for you, they are beautiful!

grote15 · May 23, 2011 8:02AM

If it's too good to be true...

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 8:05AM

Sounds like the scans may have been stolen. I'm a little pissed right now because of me calling EBAY earlier.

otwcards · May 23, 2011 8:43AM

Mickey:

Please don't take this the wrong way, but in the matter of 7 hours, you post about the purchase, then are concerned about the purchase, then contact eBay claiming the cards are stolen then . . .

If you were going to have this much stress over a purchase, why even enter into in the first place?

The seller may be legit and all of this agita will have been for naught. If there is a problem, you're protected by PayPal.

RELAX! Wait a little bit and allow the seller to follow through before sounding the alarms. You'll last a lot longer, too.

Mickey71 · May 23, 2011 8:47AM

Scott,
You are right; but I was contacted by a board member who is not a newbie with police # and all. I did not contact EBAY until after the member contacted me. In my initial post I'm just as excited as I am nervous.

Mickey71

Mickey71 · May 24, 2011 5:22AM

I asked for tracking #. None provided yet.

thedutymon · May 24, 2011 10:21PM

Morning,

You get your tracking?

Neil

Mickey71 · May 25, 2011 1:34AM

Good Morning Neil,
No tracking # yet. Probably won't get one.

Mickey

Mickey71 · May 26, 2011 8:05AM

No tracking # yet.

ThoseBackPages · May 26, 2011 8:08AM

call paypal and your credit card company

Mickey71 · May 26, 2011 8:10AM

Not enough time has gone by.

Sean1125 · May 26, 2011 8:12AM

You can always close your credit card company dispute...

Start the dispute.

jackstraw · May 26, 2011 6:21PM

Anything yet? Going on day 6 so I feel like this might not end well?

Mickey71 · May 27, 2011 4:08AM

Nothing yet

Mickey71 · May 29, 2011 9:34AM

A tracking # has appeared in my purchase history on EBAY. It looks as though it was sent to a different USPS than usual. This is getting crazy. Just to stir the pot some more...$2000 worth of cards has been sent using delivery confirmation????? You know what bothers me...a member notified immediately that those cards were stolen from his desk from a cleaning crew....and he hadn't noticed this for weeks. I notified EBAY...then the board member says that he actually has the 2 cards in his safety deposit box and that the scans are that of his cards. To say I'm confused would be an understatement. I believe the board member who contacted me was OckHamsRazor. Maybe he would like to clear some of this up. I think most of us would know when our PSA 9's 1960 and 64 Mays would end up missing. Then to contact someone and they are not missing at all. Like I said...maybe he can help clear up some of the fiasco.

bobbyw8469 · May 29, 2011 10:36PM

Something smells rotten. No wonder you are leery.

leadoff4 · May 29, 2011 11:20PM

Hope you get the cards at this great price!

OckhamsRazor · May 30, 2011 12:38AM

Danny,
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous PM. Both of those cards were in my safety deposit box. I did bring home the 60 Mays, the scan is below:

The seller had the misfortune of stealing scans of cards that happened to both belong to me. I originally thought they were part of a stack of cards that have been stolen off my desk. Which is what prompted my original PM to you. I thought you had taken the appropriate action with ebay already. Clearly, you need to move forward in protecting yourself in this fraudulent transaction. Let me know if you need any more info.

Stone193 · May 30, 2011 12:54AM

I know nothing about the law or anything.

Why not call the police? Beside immediately contacting your credit card company?

CrazyMind2017 · May 30, 2011 2:45AM

Ok, so let me try to get this straight.......

Some unnamed ebay seller found scans of OckhamsRazor's 1960 and 1964 PSA 9 Willie Mays cards and used the scans in a possibly fraudulent ebay transaction. Mickey71 was the unwitting buyer.

Immediately after the auctions closed, OckhamsRazor happened to stumble across the closed auctions and it was just coincidence that the owner of the pictured cards (OckhamsRazor) and the winning bidder (Mickey71) were both board members here.

OckhamsRazor actually had the cards in his safe deposit box, but mistakenly thought they were part of a stack of cards that had been stolen by a cleaning crew from his desk. And then immediately after the auction, OckhamsRazor identified himself to Mickey71 as the actual owner of the cards, and that whoever was selling the cards on ebay was selling his stolen property.

Only the unnamed seller didn't actually have the cards, because they hadn't actually been stolen. Since OckhamsRazor has located the cards, we can conclude that the unnamed ebay seller stole only the scans of the cards to use in his auction; he did not steal the actual cards.

And it has taken the unnamed ebay seller over a week to provide a USPS Delivery Confirmation number to Mickey71 on a package worth in the 4-digits.

1) Did I get that all straight?

2) What's the name of the ebay seller?

3) Can we have links to the closed auctions?

4) Could this be more screwed up?

WinPitcher · May 30, 2011 5:08AM

Crazy, for once you make sense.

CrazyMind2017 · May 30, 2011 7:09AM

<< Crazy, for once you make sense. >>

It happens more often than you'd think.

Ironmanfan · May 30, 2011 7:32AM

Who's on First?

Mickey71 · May 30, 2011 8:08AM

From the tracking info...something will be delivered tomorrow. I contacted EBAY like I said. I have to wait the minimum # of days and then I will open a dispute if the cards don't arrive, which looks like won't happen. Ebay assured me I will be good to go because I paid with PAYPAL. I don't need to call the police. Maybe OckhamsRazor needs to if he has cards missing.

bobbyw8469 · May 30, 2011 8:25AM

Open the package in front of a postal employee.....

jackstraw · May 30, 2011 8:42AM

64 Mays
60 Mays

jackstraw · May 30, 2011 8:45AM

It doesn't add up but the certs on the 60 Mays do match......
Does it give the info on where they were sent from?

stevek · May 30, 2011 9:11AM

<< Open the package in front of a postal employee..... >>

I'm not saying don't do that...but if it were me...I would contact PayPal and ask them EXACTLY what I should do in case this seller sends me 2 worthless pieces of plastic in the box. If PayPal says to videotape opening the box in front of say a notary public or something such as that, then I would do it considering the money involved...or if they say videotape it in front of the postal employee, etc.

jackstraw · May 30, 2011 9:14AM

So as long as he has a DC he could send an empty mailer and he is covered?

jackstraw · May 30, 2011 9:14AM

bobbyw8469 · May 30, 2011 9:16AM

Mickey...I would have been a little leery before purchasing. You SHOULD be protected via PayPal, and the guy has outstanding feedback, BUT the 1960 Topps Mantle VCP is $1,800 and that coincides with the lowest price that card has EVER sold for. Just two years ago, that card was a $3,000-$4,000 card. Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, WHY is a seller selling a card for $700 lower than it's lowest price......

bobbyw8469 · May 30, 2011 9:24AM

<< ...I would contact PayPal and ask them EXACTLY what I should do in case this seller sends me 2 worthless pieces of plastic in the box. >>

When the buyer did that to me, I opened the package in front of a postal employee, and I called PayPal right there, without leaving the lobby. I spoke to the PayPal guy, and then the postal employee spoke to the PayPal guy. It could have gotten really ugly though if I had left, as the guy sent two plastic PSA slab/halves. He could have gotten my cards AND the money. And he is STILL on Ebay, buying and selling up a storm....

CrazyMind2017 · May 30, 2011 11:21AM

If Mickey picks up cards at the post office tomorrow and the cert numbers match, and OckhamsRazor still has the original cards, then it's pretty easy to conclude that the cards sent to Mickey are counterfeit.

Hopefully there will be genuine cards in genuine PSA 9 holders without any frosting with cert numbers that do not match. Then it should be concluded that the seller simply stole OckhamsRazor's scans and every other part of the transaction was legitmate. Even if the cards are not quite as beautiful as the ones pictured, any authentic/graded PSA 9 of those cards at those prices should be considered a win.

In the event that Mickey opens a box of bricks tomorrow, the PayPal case should be a slam dunk, since the seller used Delivery Confirmation without a signature and the transaction was over $250.

Good luck at the post office tomorrow.

This is EXACTLY why every purchase should be made with a real credit card through PayPal. You get 45 days to file a SNAD claim, and at least another 15 after that (60 total) to file a credit card chargeback. And not all credit cards are created equal when it comes to chargebacks, but that's really a discussion for another forum.

Mickey71 · May 30, 2011 11:49AM

At this point the only info we have at all is OckhamsRazor's account of what is happening. And 1 huge part of the story that I told in detail to Ebay is completely false......I wish I was never told they were stolen. I actually do not know of any circumstances where that should have happened. I would never contact anyone about stolen cards unless I was 1 million % sure. Alot should be answered when the package comes. The same tracking is on both cards. If this goes bad I just want my money back. Someone mentioned the person got the scans from VCP....Unless you're serious about cards you would not even know what VCP is.

WinPitcher · May 30, 2011 12:08PM

<< Sometimes you just have to ask yourself, WHY is a seller selling a card for $700 lower than it's lowest price...... >>

Maybe he thought the seller went to the same ebay selling class you went to?

J/K

lol

bobbyw8469 · May 30, 2011 12:44PM

<< Maybe he thought the seller went to the same ebay selling class you went to? >>

Maybe I should sign up for the class that Levi is teaching?? Maybe then I will stop losing money selling these d**n little pieces of cardboard!

CDsNuts · May 30, 2011 12:58PM

I doubt Ebay documented your call about them being stolen, I would proceed as if you hadn't made that call at all. As far as proof that of your package containing fakes or air, I would open in front of a postal employee as others have mentioned, and maybe even take video of you opening the package. Paypal will probably decide in your favor regardless, but with 2 g's on the line you might as well take every precaution.

mknez · May 30, 2011 1:20PM

I've wondered about this. Will the P.O. authorize any video, and does it hold any authority????

CrazyMind2017 · May 30, 2011 4:52PM

My local post office has a sign that says no video recordings allowed on federal property. It might be better to have the carrier deliver it rather than pick it up from the post office and slip him $5 to stick around while you videotape yourself opening the box in front of him. Then if need be, you can ask him to sign an affidavit testifying as to what he witnessed. I doubt he'd actually sign that type of document, since he'd be signing it as a government employee, and they have all kinds of bureaucratic procedures they have to follow. But if it ever reached that point, you or the carrier can get the postal inspector involved, and once the inspector watches the videotape and corroborates it with the carrier, it's the same as having a real cop testify on your behalf. You can't lose.

stevek · May 30, 2011 6:00PM

<< Danny,
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my previous PM. Both of those cards were in my safety deposit box. I did bring home the 60 Mays, the scan is below:

The seller had the misfortune of stealing scans of cards that happened to both belong to me. I originally thought they were part of a stack of cards that have been stolen off my desk. Which is what prompted my original PM to you. I thought you had taken the appropriate action with ebay already. Clearly, you need to move forward in protecting yourself in this fraudulent transaction. Let me know if you need any more info. >>

Considering this post, might it be better to refuse delivery on the package?...I'm not at all sure what the PayPal rules are regarding refusing delivery.

KeepItWarm · May 30, 2011 7:50PM

I'm confused.
If OckhamsRazor has both of these cards in his possession, then what are you waiting to receive in the mail Danny? Two other 9's of the same cards?

I am not expert at all on deals-gone-bad, but it would seem that you could contact your CC and/or Paypal to issue some sort of stop payment immediately. Or is the correct process that you are required to first wait until you receive the items won - then take action.

Videotape yourself opening the package?

What a crappy thing to have to deal with. I hope it works out for you.

bobbyw8469 · May 30, 2011 8:17PM

He is almost obligated to open the package now. Just to see what this turd ball sent. I am willing to bet he will either receive the proverbial "brick", or fakes in frosted slabs. As long as he opens in front of a postal employee, I would call PayPal IMMEDIATELY after opening the package if there is anything remotely odd about the contents.

Hoping for the best...preparing for the worst...Tracking # added.

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