Threatened with a Neg Feedback

richtree · May 3, 2011 12:08AM

I don't own a store and recently got this message from a buyer:

Hi - We both have 100% ratings so I am writing you as a courtesy before leaving feedback - the cards finally arrived but both cases are slightly scratched and have more serious dings - they need to be re-slabbed by PSA and you do not accept returns anyway - there are two options - if you give me a PayPal credit of $10 to pay for the re-slabbing I will leave positive feedback - otherwise I will have no choice but to leave negative feedback with an explanation why - please let me know your preference ASAP - Michael

What would you do ? Should I contact ebay?

These were BGS graded items and now the buy mentions PSA -- is this unusual? I keep everything in good shape, but of course a sracth is possible somewhere along the line? IDK what to do ?

Request scans???? -- I haven't written back.

thanks guys

bobbyw8469 · May 3, 2011 12:11AM

Make an exception and accept a return. Then block him from future bidding.

scooter729 · May 3, 2011 12:18AM

How expensive were the two cards? Are we talking $500 cards, where a $10 credit is 2%? Or is it a $10 card, where he basically wants it for free?

Sean1125 · May 3, 2011 12:32AM

Ship him a dead fish. Make sure the plastic is slightly punctured for maximum chum smell.

KeepItWarm · May 3, 2011 12:33AM

The cards don't "need to be re-slabbed by PSA"...he just WANTS to have them re-slabbed by PSA. Let him pay.

YogiBerraFan · May 3, 2011 12:33AM

Tell him you will take them back and see what he says then.

KbKards · May 3, 2011 12:38AM

It looks like a standard form letter he sends out and forgot to change PSA to BGS.
Hopefully he was turned in before for feedback extortion so this time when you turn him in maybe he'll get booted off.
Turn him in, block him, and see how Ebay replies before making any further contact with him.
And please post his ID so others can avoid the same situation you're in.

epatmythes · May 3, 2011 12:57AM

<< It looks like a standard form letter he sends out and forgot to change PSA to BGS.
Hopefully he was turned in before for feedback extortion so this time when you turn him in maybe he'll get booted off.
Turn him in, block him, and see how Ebay replies before making any further contact with him.
And please post his ID so others can avoid the same situation you're in. >>

My thoughts exactly... and yes, please do post his ID so others can block him too!

As others have said, in this case I'd make an exception and offer the ability to return the cards... as you are not in the business of paying customers to have their cards reholdered for any reason.

cards651 · May 3, 2011 1:02AM

I bid and buy lots and lots of cards on eBay. The occasional negative such as what you will receive from this guy does not bother me (as a buyer) in the least. As a buyer I realize that there are people like this that will nickel and dime you for every advantage they can get. It's a BGS holder and he brings up PSA? It borders on penny-ante extortion as others have noted. On the other hand, you will save yourself a lot of aggravation by following bobbyw469's advice - accept the return and block the future bids. Good luck. One last opinion - If he does neg you, don't get in a back and forth on the reply. Say something like, 'I try my best but can't please everyone. Please review other feedback.' As a buyer this sort of response always calms any concerns I have about the neg. feedback.

jlzinck · May 3, 2011 1:11AM

It matters not that you don't accept returns. If he wants to open a claim you will have to accept a return or risk losing cards and $$.

You have 2 options.

1. Cave in to this scumbag and give him his $10.
2. Tell him to go have "relations" with his mother and then pound sand........in a professional way though.

If he leaves negative, report the message to Ebay and they should remove his comments or remove the FB itself.

If he does leave negative...reply to it saying he was trying to blackmail you with a partial refund.

I would opt for #2 and them block said sucmbag

richtree · May 3, 2011 1:23AM

thanks for advice so far guys....

I will follow up with what I decide.

10 bucks is 10% of the sale before fees.

WinPitcher · May 3, 2011 1:35AM

I'd tell him he has 2 options, keep the cards as is or return for a refund.

After that I'd not reply to him again.

Steve

jlzinck · May 3, 2011 1:35AM

Bidder name so we can block this jerkoff

OAKESY25 · May 3, 2011 1:48AM

100% take the return and give refund.. then block.. then post the buyer so I will never ever sell to him

drewsef · May 3, 2011 1:52AM

does anyone else notice how prevalent this type of mentality is present in sportscards versus other hobbies?

KeepItWarm · May 3, 2011 2:01AM

this happens in most hobbies I would guess. Happens all the time in vintage bicycle collecting.

grote15 · May 3, 2011 2:05AM

Ask him if he's going to be home next weekend...you have nothing to do and want to stop by and ask him to say hello to your little friend.

richtree · May 3, 2011 2:31AM

I told him I would be checking with ebay to see what my options are before giving a final response/resolution.

He wrote this back :

No problem - unfortunately I have had the same problem before - several times in the past cards bought on eBay with both PSA and BGS cases have arrived with the cards themselves undamaged but the cases badly scratched, cracked, chipped, etc. - both companies will put the cards in new cases without regrading for $5 each - I have asked the previous sellers for a partial PayPal credit to cover the cost and they agreed - I then left positive feedback saying there was a slight problem but it was promptly resolved - I am very reluctant to leave negative feedback, particularly when a seller has a 100% rating - I have one and value it as I am sure you do too - the $10 is not much considering I have to pay considerably more for mailing and required insurance - please let me know what you decide Tt

zep33 · May 3, 2011 2:38AM

"I then left positive feedback saying there was a slight problem but it was promptly resolved "

This guy sounds like a complete douche - tell him to blow a goat

CrazyMind2017 · May 3, 2011 2:46AM

I wouldn't have told him that you contacted ebay. I think you should have just asked him to send the cards back for a full refund with the understanding that you would be expecting him to agree to cancel the transaction so you can get back your final value fees.

CrazyMind2017 · May 3, 2011 2:46AM

<< "I then left positive feedback saying there was a slight problem but it was promptly resolved "

This guy sounds like a complete douche - tell him to blow a goat >>

+1

hammered · May 3, 2011 2:52AM

Don't give him the $10, it doesn't matter what % of the total purchase it represents.
Offer full refunds only. Otherwise, they can pound sand.

I've had a few buyers try to get partial refunds on graded cards. In each case I offered a total refund only. I never had one card returned.

pclpads · May 3, 2011 3:01AM

It's only May 3 and this d - - k already wins "Douche of the Month" award. Your Reply: "Return cards for refund; 2) Douche pays return shipping cost." Your actions: 1) Block bidder; 2) Post douche's name here; 3) Re-sell. Something to ponder: If you comply w/ all his demands, this douche might neg you anyway. No guarantees he'll post +FB. If / when that happens, you'll really be p - - - - - d and feel like a dummy. That's how douches think and are.

cpamike · May 3, 2011 3:11AM

I totally agree with hammered. Since you mentioned that you would be contacting eBay, I would tell him that eBay's recommendation was to offer a full refund for the card if he is unhappy with any scratches that occurred in transit and they would cancel the transaction. If he tries to give you a neg, send all the correspondence to eBay and it will be removed.

Is this guy cheap or what???

sportscardtheory · May 3, 2011 3:20AM

eBay WILL remove the negative the buyer gives if you direct them to the e-mail that used feedback as a means to extortion. No doubt about it.

KbKards · May 3, 2011 3:36AM

Actually any scratches on the holders would have made the "cards" he bought a little more interesting. Odd he didn't also want price adjustments due to hole in card and blurry picture.

storm888 · May 3, 2011 3:42AM

.

EBAY's hills are alive with the sounds of SCUMBAG "buyers."

By his own admission, the instant "buyer" is a serial fraudster and extortionist.

BUT, under EBAY TOS, his written demand does NOT constitute
"feedback extortion."

........................

I get whacked by such SCUM frequently. I don't sell cards on EBAY,
but ladies-fashion has FAR more SCUMSTRESSES than collectibles
does.

I use this email:

Dear Buyer:

I am sorry that you are not happy with your purchase.

Please mail the item back to me today at my expense.

Upon receipt, I will immediately refund your original PayPal
payment in full AND refund your entire return shipping cost.

Again, I am sorry that you are not pleased with your purchase.

Thank you very much.

Very Respectfully,

storm

MOST of the time, I never hear from the SCUM again.

Sometimes I get a NEG from the non-returners. Once,
I got a NEG from a WITCH that I refunded. Some of the
returners leave positive-FB as promised, others leave no
FB at all.

I never tell the "buyer" what mailing-protocol to use in
their unwarranted/fraudulent returns. If their return is
not made in a PayPal-compliant manner, they are SOL.

Getting in a back-and-forth message exchange with such
SCUM is a loser for the seller. Simply state your position
and leave it at that.

.............................

EBAY does not care about sellers. They have made fraud
profitable for "buyers," and there is a TON of it.

For $200 a month in adword costs, you can meet or exceed
EBAY's traffic on your own website. And, you can define your
own payment terms. (google-checkout is FAR more protective
of honest sellers than is PayPal.)

.................

twiley · May 3, 2011 3:58AM

EBay ID Please. I want to block the scammer...

MULLINS5 · May 3, 2011 4:00AM

This sort of thing happens a lot with textbooks I buy on half.com

When I buy a textbook from that site I choose "Like New" or "Brand New" or even the lower grades "Acceptable - Good - Very Good" if the lower grades are advertised without writing inside.

Sometimes I get a book that should have no writing within the text -- when this happens I simply open dialogue with the buyer and offer them to send a refund in the amount of the difference in condition. If they would like the book back then I'm more than glad to return it as I have no use for it. Never do I threaten negative feedback.

This guy -- as you already know -- is scamming you. Do as others suggested and tell him to return for a full refund.

storm888 · May 3, 2011 4:02AM

<< eBay WILL remove the negative the buyer gives if you direct them to the e-mail that used feedback as a means to extortion. No doubt about it. >>

..........................

Good luck with that.

While the PLAIN LANGUAGE of the EBAY-TOS clearly indicates
the acceptable conduct of "buyers" it is not routinely or uniformly
enforced.

In the instant case, the "buyer" is simply making an offer to quickly
avoid/resolve a prospective SNAD dispute/claim.

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that EBAY would remove a NEG, based on
the language used by the instant "buyer" in his "settlement offer."

........

What are the guidelines?

Not allowed

Examples of Feedback extortion

The buyer can't threaten to leave negative Feedback or low detailed seller ratings (DSRs) if the seller won't:

Accept a return and pay for return shipping.

Give a full or partial refund for an item.

Lower the shipping and handling costs.

Refund payment before the buyer ships the item back to the seller.

Send an extra item that wasn't part of the original listing. (This doesn't include when a buyer requests a replacement for an item that doesn't match the original item description.)

The seller can't:

Refuse to ship the item or refund the buyer unless the buyer leaves positive Feedback or high detailed seller ratings.

Tell the buyer that they can’t use a warranty included in the listing unless the buyer leaves positive Feedback or high detailed seller ratings.

Offer monetary compensation, like a partial refund, to the buyer in exchange for positive Feedback or revising negative or neutral Feedback.

...................................

Admin-removal of unwarranted FB is not impossible, but neither
is it a slamdunk.

Even MANY "supervisors" interpret written statements of "buyers"
as mere attempts to amicably resolve a problem.

zep33 · May 3, 2011 4:06AM

Doesn't this fir the extortion description?

"if you give me a PayPal credit of $10 to pay for the re-slabbing I will leave positive feedback - otherwise I will have no choice but to leave negative feedback with an explanation why"

Give me 10 bucks or you get a neg

Johnsteph10 · May 3, 2011 4:09AM

Do you have scans of the cards/holders showing that they are in good condition? Do you remember any scratches on the cases?

He likely scratches them himself in order to save money on his end and never sends them in for "re-holdering." Heck, he may even turn around and sell them and make money both ways.

I've received many scratched slabs -- unless they are terrible or affect my enjoyment of the card, I don't bother with it.

stevek · May 3, 2011 4:20AM

I wanna block this guy so bad, I almost wanna pay $10 to do it.

WinPitcher · May 3, 2011 5:15AM

lol SteveK

storm888 · May 3, 2011 5:34AM

<< Doesn't this fit the extortion description?

"if you give me a PayPal credit of $10 to pay for the re-slabbing I will leave positive feedback - otherwise I will have no choice but to leave negative feedback with an explanation why." >>

/////////////////////////////////////

Based on the TOS, one can argue that it should be found extortionate.

Trying to get EBAY to see it that way is usually a MAJOR challenge.

If every attempt to "settle or avoid" a SNAD dispute/claim was found
to be "extortion," EBAY would have to employ more monkeys to deal
with the increase in claims.

Giving buyers/sellers wide latitude in the language they use in their
"settlement offers" is in EBAY's interest; and, unfortunately, it puts
pressure on sellers to do what "buyers" demand.

......................

If EBAY wanted to - they don't - they could remove the ambiguity
in the TOS by simply stating that:

Buyers may not mention "feedback" in any settlement offers.

That style is incorporated in other elements of the TOS.

eg: Sellers may not mention paper payments as an alternate form
of payment, but buyers can raise the issue.

That a bad/good buyer can/will leave NEGs if their demands are not
met is a given. There is no need for a good/honest buyer to mention
FB in settlement negotiations; sellers KNOW what the consequences
are w/o being reminded.

...................................

I have firsthand knowledge of what EBAY's intent was when the "extortion
ban" was first introduced.

"Give me something not contemplated in the original listing OR I will NEG you,"
is the concept that EBAY wanted to remove.

In the instant case, the "buyer" can be found to simply be trying to tell the seller
what actions the seller needs to take to avoid a SNAD-claim that would warrant
a NEG.

The FB forum is FULL of stories just like that of the OP; most end badly for the seller.
Here are 100-pages of such stories.

Feedback Extortion Complaints

Here are another 100-pages from Seller Central:

More Extortion Stories

JHS5120 · May 3, 2011 5:39AM

This is simple, contact ebay, they are more helpful than we give them credit for. Call them or start an online chat with customer service (I prefer the chat), tell them the issue and let them know that you are worried he will demand more money if you partially refund him. They will listen, when you start a conversation with an ebay rep they are very understanding and helpful. It is sometimes frustrating over the phone because you are trying to relay the contents of an email over the phone and they are mostly skeptical but if you copy and paste the exact messages in a chat box they will be shocked and assist you. It is sometimes longer then phone conversations but IMO much more effective.

Chances are they will tell you to offer a refund but it's worth a shot!

Hope it helps,
Jason

Chat link right side.

KbKards · May 3, 2011 6:13AM

And Ebay will know absolutely nothing about graded cards so the insignificance of natural handling scratches as it pertains to cardholders needs to be pointed out. If you were selling records then scratches are a significant defect and warranted complaint. The slabs are nothing more than card holders designed to protect the value of the card inside and will pick up light scratches with normal handling. Any scratching on the holder has no affect on the value of the card and his desire to put his card in a new holder has nothing to do with there being anything wrong with the card you sold.

cards651 · May 3, 2011 6:16AM

Great points, Jason.

Garabaldi · May 3, 2011 6:38AM

I doubt the buyer sends the cards back if you offer a full refund. Just send him an e-mail saying that you are sorry that he is not satisfied and he should send them back upon when you receive them you will issue a full refund. I would be very surprised if he does. Give him the option and not the satisfaction of getting the $10. Sounds like he has done this too many times.

twiley · May 3, 2011 8:26AM

richtree - any chance you could tell us the buyer's ebay ID? I would like to block this buyer. Thanks.

jacksoncoupage · May 3, 2011 8:59AM

<< richtree - any chance you could tell us the buyer's ebay ID? I would like to block this buyer. Thanks. >>

I'll add that this guy just did the same thing over shipping time just last week. He told me that he would hate to ruin my perfect 100% feedback. I asked him what he'd like me to do since as a seller, ebay has left me at his mercy. He responded with "just send the item" (it had been sent already - with extras) and I'll leave you positive feedback."

This is where he became my first blocked-bidder.

It's worth noting too that I had previously looked up his "recent items he bid on" because I knew I took a little too long getting his cards packed up and saw that he collects Jason Heyward and Dale Murphy, possibly Braves in general. I included a Bowman and Bowman Platinum Heyward for the trouble.

He left positive feedback, noting how long it took, but nothing about my attempts to make up for that.

brendanb438 · May 3, 2011 9:25AM

Well since this thread will get zapped if you post the turds personal info in it might I suggest you go over to 4chan, post that this guy enjoys killing kittens and post his personal info there.

Really though out the ebay id so we can all block the turd.

storm888 · May 3, 2011 9:36AM

For future reference, this product - and others like it - will
remove/repair/hide light scratches on plastic slabs.

scratch fix

The cheap products work as well as the expensive ones.

JMDVM · May 3, 2011 9:50AM

Offer full refund on the condition he agrees to cancel the transaction so you get credit for your fees. Then block him. And please, please, please post his Ebay ID....

jacksoncoupage · May 3, 2011 9:59AM

<< And please, please, please post his Ebay ID.... >>

It's right there in my previous post if you follow the right steps.

CrazyMind2017 · May 3, 2011 10:38AM

<< 

<< And please, please, please post his Ebay ID.... >>

It's right there in my previous post if you follow the right steps. >>

What the hell did you sell him??????

LOL

jacksoncoupage · May 3, 2011 10:42AM

<< 

<< 

<< And please, please, please post his Ebay ID.... >>

It's right there in my previous post if you follow the right steps. >>

What the hell did you sell him??????

LOL >>

Pro Set's famous penis variation that isn't Fred Marion's card.

twiley · May 3, 2011 12:21PM

drmikeppsych

is now blocked. Thanks

JohnnyD · May 3, 2011 12:41PM

<< drmikeppsych

is now blocked. Thanks >>

Thank you Twiley for finally solving the mystery of the day. I can't figure out why the OP asks us for an opinion and then ignores at least 3 requests for the buyers ID.

mcadams · May 3, 2011 12:56PM

Mike buys cards for his son, who I believe is on the registry. I've sold cards to Mike over the years and haven't had any problems. He can be a bit pushy at times, but he pays quickly and he has very deep pockets. Doesn't sound like him at all to squabble over 10 bucks, he probably was just genuinely disappointed that the cases were scratched (I have no idea what condition they were in). I do think its terrible that he threatened with neg feedback. Again, just doesn't sound like the guy I've dealt with in the past at all.

bobbyw8469 · May 3, 2011 1:00PM

I have never dealt with him, but after reading the issue the OP had with him, I don't think I want to.

Threatened with a Neg Feedback

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