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Quesiton on Heritage lot: 1803 $10 gold

barrytrotbarrytrot Posts: 759 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1154&Lot_No=6612&Lot_Id_No=211015



Given the total population in the semi-affordable for this coin is a cleaned one the only way to go for those of us without "TradeDollarNut money"?


I don't have any other "damaged" coins in my sets but this one will be a long time coming without succumbing to the evils of "cleaning". Right?



Would any of you buy this coin?

Comments

  • commoncents05commoncents05 Posts: 10,096 ✭✭✭
    If I knew that I wanted to own an example of this coin, and I was never going to be able to afford a problem free example, I would go for it.

    -Paul
    Many Quality coins for sale at http://www.CommonCentsRareCoins.com
  • partagaspartagas Posts: 2,056 ✭✭✭
    linked for you

    That is a coin I would want to see in hand. I agree we all can't collect what we like, and sometimes must settle problem coins. But if it were me and my money. I would want to see it and hang on to it for a few days before committing to a buy a coin like that.
    If I say something in the woods, and my wife isn't around. Am I still wrong?
  • TahoeDaleTahoeDale Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭
    No, do not buy a problem coin, when there are low grade(VG to VF) that are available and certified. Even an XF might be obtained for under 12,000.
    TahoeDale
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The surface granularity is very distracting, even more so than the look of many gold pieces salvaged from many shipwrecks.
    I would keep clear, and heed TahoeDale's advice.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

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  • NysotoNysoto Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As a die variety collector, I own some problem coins in rare varieties. That being said, I would not want the 1803 $10, it appears to have heavy hairlines and would look worse in person. Another strategy for this design type is to buy a problem free $5 as they are much less expensive than $10's, the early gold is larger in size than classic head and coronet design. I now have four of these early bust right $5's.
    Robert Scot: Engraving Liberty - biography of US Mint's first chief engraver
  • barrytrotbarrytrot Posts: 759 ✭


    << <i>No, do not buy a problem coin, when there are low grade(VG to VF) that are available and certified. Even an XF might be obtained for under 12,000. >>




    That's the issue with this coin type there really are not very many coins out there. Here are the PCGS populations combined 1797 to 1804:

    P01 to G6: ZERO coins
    VG8: TWO!
    F12: TWO!
    F15: 6
    VF20: 4
    VF25: 4

    So for $12,000 or less there are 18 coins. That's very few to go around to all "poor" type collectors.


    Assume at least half of those are in strong hands as "hole fillers", so under 10 coins will ever meet the criteria. Other than "cleaned"/other junk image
  • AhrensdadAhrensdad Posts: 2,583 ✭✭✭
    Normally, I would say don't do it but it doesn't look like there are a lot of opportunities out there to buy a nice problem free example. Do it. The coin doesn't look terrible. It probably looks worse in a holder that says "Improperly Cleaned".
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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think that when you see this coin it is going to have a "sweated" appearance. By that I mean that the surfaces will granular in appearance, which is not the best look for gold. Sometimes gold coins look like that when they have been heated to remove a mount.

    A few years ago when I first started looking for a 1795 Small Eagle half eagle, I saw a couple of pieces at the Clear Water show. One was in an NGC holder and had the “white gold" appearance. The other was raw (not in a holder) and original with very nice color, but it had been mounted on the edge for jewelry. I actually liked the looks of that one more, but it had been mounted and the dealer wanted about the same money for it as it had no problems at all. image

    I guess if I could not afford a "no problem" example of this type, I might look for a piece with some mounting on the edge and decent surfaces. For what it's worth the Gray Sheet bid on this coin is $7.550 on Fine. I don't know that anyone would pay that much, but I'd say that would be my upper limit if I were interested in it.

    I have an aversion to buying problem coins with mid four figure price tags, but that's just me.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Alltheabove76Alltheabove76 Posts: 1,520 ✭✭✭✭
    You could probably keep it as a pocket piece for a year and then have it reslabbed problem free.
    My Liberty Caps
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  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>You could probably keep it as a pocket piece for a year and then have it reslabbed problem free. >>



    That's a risky strategy with a $6 or $7 thousand dollar item. If it looks the way I think it looks, the pocket piece strategy might not work, because the devices would still look "mushy."
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    There was one in an NGC damaged holder with nice AU details. I saw no damage on the coin, and neither did others who saw it. Its risky, but I will bet it will end up in a problem free holder one day.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,550 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I would not buy it.

    There are VERY few coins I would consider buying with a problem. This isn't one of them.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,313 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't care how badly my inner self would want to complete a set, I wouldn't settle for a coin like this. Better to leave an empty slot.
    There's way too much emphasis on "completing" a set. And if one is not doing a set, why would this even be on the radar?


    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't care how badly my inner self would want to complete a set, I wouldn't settle for a coin like this. Better to leave an empty slot.
    There's way too much emphasis on "completing" a set. And if one is not doing a set, why would this even be on the radar?


    roadrunner >>



    Yea, this is the way I feel. If I can't find or afford a coin that gets a "clean grade" at certain standard (Fine is lower than I usually want to go), I'd rather not have an example of that coin.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • barrytrotbarrytrot Posts: 759 ✭


    << <i>There was one in an NGC damaged holder with nice AU details. I saw no damage on the coin, and neither did others who saw it. Its risky, but I will bet it will end up in a problem free holder one day. >>



    I think you are referring to this one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1154&Lot_No=6611

    And at the next bid increment of $14,000 ($16,100) is already more than this VF30 GRADED one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1151&Lot_No=5175


    And at $16,100 is close enough to David Hall's XF45 one:

    http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=9466156
  • ajmanajman Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭


    << <i>No, do not buy a problem coin, when there are low grade(VG to VF) that are available and certified. Even an XF might be obtained for under 12,000. >>

    image
    Beer is Proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy -Benjamin Franklin-
  • PQueuePQueue Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
    No, never.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>There was one in an NGC damaged holder with nice AU details. I saw no damage on the coin, and neither did others who saw it. Its risky, but I will bet it will end up in a problem free holder one day. >>



    I think you are referring to this one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1154&Lot_No=6611

    And at the next bid increment of $14,000 ($16,100) is already more than this VF30 GRADED one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1151&Lot_No=5175


    And at $16,100 is close enough to David Hall's XF45 one:

    http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=9466156 >>



    Yes that's the one I was referring to. I saw that NGC VF30 in hand, it's it's been VERY harshly scrubbed. No idea how it made it into a problem free slab. I also think the one Dave Hall has was also cleaned at one point. Which is probably why it hasn't sold.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • robkoolrobkool Posts: 5,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For an album coin... YES !!!
    For a registry coin... NO !!!
    Ebay items for sale Current BIN's / The Kingdom Collection
  • barrytrotbarrytrot Posts: 759 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>There was one in an NGC damaged holder with nice AU details. I saw no damage on the coin, and neither did others who saw it. Its risky, but I will bet it will end up in a problem free holder one day. >>



    I think you are referring to this one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1154&Lot_No=6611

    And at the next bid increment of $14,000 ($16,100) is already more than this VF30 GRADED one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1151&Lot_No=5175


    And at $16,100 is close enough to David Hall's XF45 one:

    http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=9466156 >>



    Yes that's the one I was referring to. I saw that NGC VF30 in hand, it's it's been VERY harshly scrubbed. No idea how it made it into a problem free slab. I also think the one Dave Hall has was also cleaned at one point. Which is probably why it hasn't sold. >>




    Wow, that's a scary testament!

    I would have thought that the graders would be pretty good at the $10,000+ level for a coin image
  • barrytrotbarrytrot Posts: 759 ✭
    In case anyone cared: I did NOT bid on the "cleaned" lot that I had been asking about. I was very close to hitting the "cut" button, but I decided that there was no point to paying $7,000 (after fees) for a coin that was a mandatory eventual upgrade anyway image
  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,826 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Probably a good decision. Why buy a coin that you are not going to be happy with? And probably take a beating when time to be sold or traded.
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You could probably keep it as a pocket piece for a year and then have it reslabbed problem free. >>



    No way. More likely it would simply end up looking like crap (assuming you didn't lose it in the process).
    Coin Rarities Online
  • AngryTurtleAngryTurtle Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>There was one in an NGC damaged holder with nice AU details. I saw no damage on the coin, and neither did others who saw it. Its risky, but I will bet it will end up in a problem free holder one day. >>



    I think you are referring to this one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1154&Lot_No=6611

    And at the next bid increment of $14,000 ($16,100) is already more than this VF30 GRADED one:

    http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1151&Lot_No=5175


    And at $16,100 is close enough to David Hall's XF45 one:

    http://www.collectorscorner.com/Products/Item.aspx?id=9466156 >>




    Yes that's the one I was referring to. I saw that NGC VF30 in hand, it's it's been VERY harshly scrubbed. No idea how it made it into a problem free slab. I also think the one Dave Hall has was also cleaned at one point. Which is probably why it hasn't sold. >>




    Wow, that's a scary testament!

    I would have thought that the graders would be pretty good at the $10,000+ level for a coin image >>



    The David Hall Piece looks pretty good from the pics, although I see what looks like some hairline on it. I have not asked a gold expert about this, but from my observations gold coins are net graded for a light wiping with a cloth - at least I see a lot of them in no problem holders in the Circ grades. This is my guess on the Hall coin.

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