How do you determine if "rub" is present on Walking Liberty Halves and SLQs?

SanctionII

I have a 1933S Walker and a 1924S SLQ. The half has a muted golden tone and the quarter is white with nice luster.

Both look MS and if they are MS they would probably grade 63 or higher. However, if they are not MS (due to rub on the high points) they would probably grade AU58.

I can not tell whether the left leg, left hand and left arm of the half and/or whether the left leg/knee and the shield of the quarter have rub.

Is there any way to determine with certainty whether rub is present or not present on these coins? Or is the presence or absence of rub so subjective that no one can definitively say?

LindeDad

These kinds of coins are why grading services came about. Sellers see no rub; Buyers do about two weeks after buying.
And sorry to say but they are why I started buying professionally graded coins the slider Walkers can be deceiving.

messydesk

For Walkers that are untoned or lightly toned, my test is to stand them on edge and upright (with respect to the obverse) on a white piece of paper and look down at the coin. If there's rub, you'll usually see a vertical gray stripe right down the middle of the obverse. I assume something similar works for SLQs, probably on Liberty's right (viewer's left) leg.

Meltdown

<< <i>For Walkers that are untoned or lightly toned, my test is to stand them on edge and upright (with respect to the obverse) on a white piece of paper and look down at the coin. If there's rub, you'll usually see a vertical gray stripe right down the middle of the obverse. I assume something similar works for SLQs, probably on Liberty's right (viewer's left) leg. >>




That's a great tip, thanks. I struggle with AU58+ vs. MS in both those series as well.

ricko

Interesting tip....had not heard that one.... Thanks, Cheers, RickO

roadrunner

Another method is to judge the overall mint luster on all other areas of the coin. If there is strong and unbroken luster in the fields for example with little
chatter, there's a good chance that central flatness is strike related rather than rubbing.

A second method is to look at the flat raised edge of the rims. They should be rough, grainy, and covered in mint luster all around. If they appear choppy-looking,
and sort of dullish with lots of little cuts, and hairlines it's probably from handling/wear. Those rims are a high point of the coin as well. I use this method a lot on seated coins,
especially toned ones where high point rub can be hidden under toning (added or natural). The only drawback with this is that a number of 19th century coins were placed on
wooden boards or cabinets and received rubbing on the rims even though they exhibit full mint luster. The TPG's would still tend to give them the nod as Unc. However, WLH's
were never kept like that any broken or weak luster on the rims would be a sure sign of handling/circulation. A real choice or gem WLH will have nice full luster rims as well.
Same comment for SLQ's. The wider the rim, the easier it is to evaluate the luster in that area. The rims should glow with mint luster just like the open fields. If you have a
coin with undisturbed luster on the rims, the odds are very slim that the center of that coin was rubbed via normal handling/circulation w/o affecting the rims.

Throughout the US spectrum coins with minute high point rub will often be given a pass if everything else on the coins says "choice unc." Of course this "pass" is tougher to get
in the 1920's to 1940's. It's pretty easy to get in the 1800's. So honestly, it comes down to TPG experience and discretion as to what they do when a liner coin is before them.

roadrunner

SanctionII

Thank you all very much for some excellent advice and counsel.

You all should be lawyers

I will look at the two coins again with your helpful suggestions.

Hopefully my next examination will point towards MS with no rub instead of AU58 with rub.

Lakesammman

Thanks for the pointers.

yellowjacket

When you dip out that natural patina, you can see the rub as clear as a bell.

Garrow

Walkerguy21D

Luster breaks in the right obv field of the walkers, in addition to looking for rub/broken luster down the center of the obv.
The eagle's central neck feathers are a good place to check on the rev......these are very seldom affected by strike, and quickly show wear when it's present.

veryfine

Here's an example of one of my toned PCGS AU-58 SLQs. Although the scan does not depict luster very well, in hand, it is very lustrous. Liberty's right leg has some "rub" which is associated with a slight discoloration in the area.


There are plenty of MS SLQs with a slightly matte appearance on the high points of the right leg. My MS 1924 has a touch of that right leg cloudiness but the coin does not have any wear.


No question these are tricky to grade at these levels. I would not buy a so called "mint state" Standing Liberty Quarter unless encapsulated by a top TPG or purchased raw from a very well respected dealer. I don't care how great the image looks. Of course, if I pay an AU-58 price for an MS-63, I can make an exception.