Gold, silver coins now officially legal tender in Utah

goingbroke

Utah Gov. Gary Herbert last week quietly signed a law which has made Utah the first U.S. state to recognize federally issued gold and silver coins as legal tender.

However, the governor chose not to make any public statement about the Utah Legal Tender Act.

Utah's state tax code now considers U.S. Mint gold and silver coins as currency,

roadrunner

Does this mean that they cannot be confiscated in the state of Utah even in the event of a future executive confiscation order?
Of course parting with one's bullion for FRN's is not much of an insurance policy. I can just see a WalMart cashier in Utah pondering
over some 1 oz. SAE's presented to them in payment.

roadrunner

mrearlygold

<< <i>Does this mean that they cannot be confiscated in the state of Utah even in the event of a future executive confiscation order?

roadrunner >>




Well, let's wait for the resident expert on that eh? After all, jail isn't REALLY what they meant to impose when they forced people to give up their gold..............for the greater good after all..........so we could really accelerate the "to each according to his need ideas".

pf70collector

Does that mean Bullion is no longer taxed in Utah at the state level? How about the Federal level?

goingbroke

James West, publisher of the Midas Lettter, Wednesday called Utah Sound Money Act "a shot at the Federal Reserve. And Utah isn't alone. A few other states are considering similar bills."

CaptHenway

So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

cohodk

<< <i>So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

>>



I think you still owe her another $6. The US G says its worth a buck, would be hard to prove otherwise in a court of law.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

>>



I think you still owe her another $6. The US G says its worth a buck, would be hard to prove otherwise in a court of law. >>



So, what exactly does the new law DO?

kranky

Law goes into effect in early May. I think the effect is that sales of US-issued legal tender gold & silver coins can't be taxed.

mhammerman

"So, what exactly does the new law DO?"

Right question...

I recall that in reading some of the earlier articles about this is that they will trade at face value, if you really want to do that. What the law actually enables is selling gold and silver for frn's and visa versa such that there is no government reporting requirements for ir s purposes or any other regulatory requirements on the exchange of US gold coins. This was, the way I understand it, a pre-emptive strike on the $600 1099 issue and also to encourage private ownership of gold through dropping any reporting requirements. The law was not about using a $50 eagle in trade for $50 worth of goods. I will read more and report back if an update is necessary.

stevkc

Here is the extent of the effect of this law:

Utah's state tax code now considers U.S. Mint gold and silver coins as currency, which means no capital gains or other state taxes will be levied when the coins are exchanged. However, the gold and silver coins are still only worth their face value despite record gold and silver prices.

So, there's the tax thing, plus if you owe money to the state for taxes or whatever, you could now pay with silver or gold coins. So if you owe $500 in state income taxes, you could send in 500 ASEs (since they are still only recognized at $1 each) instead of a check for $500.

It does not mean that resturants, gas stations or Wal Mart are required to accept gold or silver as payment. I guess they could if they wanted, just as any business is allowed to accept anything they want as payment.

pf70collector

as, the way I understand it, a pre-emptive strike on the $600 1099 issue

I now believe this will not be repealed with Congress arguing about whether to cut a measly $6 Billion from the budget. These clowns haven't got a clue.

PerryHall

Weren't AGE's, ASE's, and APE's always legal tender at their face value?

stevkc

<< <i>Weren't AGE's, ASE's, and APE's always legal tender at their face value? >>



Yes, but they are/were treated as bullion and taxed as such, including capital gains. Now, at least in Utah, they are now treated just as any other currency.

Kip

<< <i>Does this mean that they cannot be confiscated in the state of Utah even in the event of a future executive confiscation order?
Of course parting with one's bullion for FRN's is not much of an insurance policy. I can just see a WalMart cashier in Utah pondering
over some 1 oz. SAE's presented to them in payment.

roadrunner >>



I have seen them have a difficult time with a quarter............just saying.....

1jester

What would stop businesses from pricing their goods and services in "silver eagles" or "gold eagles"? For instance, a restaurant could state the price of a steak dinner as "1 silver american eagle" or "$1 in silver american eagles", could it not? I'm wondering if there's any legal way to encourage people to use metals in actual trade.

COINB0Y

It is interesting that the UTAH law appears to simply re-state the concept of Article 1, Section 10 (among other parts) of the US Constitution:

"Powers prohibited of States

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit;-->*** make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts***<---; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility."




The Text in PDF

gecko109

<< <i>

<< <i>So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

>>



I think you still owe her another $6. The US G says its worth a buck, would be hard to prove otherwise in a court of law. >>




If that is true, then I can contract a job....lets say a carpenter to build me a patio.....and pay him $100 (2 gold eagles) and he then owes the government taxes on $100 in income? Whats good for the goose........

57loaded

<< <i>It is interesting that the UTAH law appears to simply re-state the concept of Article 1, Section 10 (among other parts) of the US Constitution:

>>



very important point, the Utah law isn't attempting to circumvent or replace or even allow for an alternative (barter) to the USD is how i read it.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

>>



I think you still owe her another $6. The US G says its worth a buck, would be hard to prove otherwise in a court of law. >>




If that is true, then I can contract a job....lets say a carpenter to build me a patio.....and pay him $100 (2 gold eagles) and he then owes the government taxes on $100 in income? Whats good for the goose........ >>




For 50 Bonus Points.......identify the "Carl's House of Toast" referfence.......

goingbroke

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>So how does it work? If I walk into Carl's House of Toast and order the $6.99 breakfast special and hand the cashier a silver eagle, does she owe me change, and how much, or do I still owe her another six bucks?

>>



I think you still owe her another $6. The US G says its worth a buck, would be hard to prove otherwise in a court of law. >>




If that is true, then I can contract a job....lets say a carpenter to build me a patio.....and pay him $100 (2 gold eagles) and he then owes the government taxes on $100 in income? Whats good for the goose........ >>




For 50 Bonus Points.......identify the "Carl's House of Toast" referfence.......

>>

Las Vegas businessman Kahre guilty of 57 counts
Kahre had claimed he tried to legally avoid taxes by creating a cash payroll system that disbursed gold and silver coins, on the theory that recipients could go by the coins' face value for tax purposes.

He faces up to 296 years in prison and fines of up to $14 million, according to the U.S. Attorney's office.

Stew

<< <i>Here is the extent of the effect of this law: Utah's state tax code now considers U.S. Mint gold and silver coins as currency, which means no capital gains or other state taxes will be levied when the coins are exchanged. However, the gold and silver coins are still only worth their face value despite record gold and silver prices. So, there's the tax thing, plus if you owe money to the state for taxes or whatever, you could now pay with silver or gold coins. So if you owe $500 in state income taxes, you could send in 500 ASEs (since they are still only recognized at $1 each) instead of a check for $500. It does not mean that resturants, gas stations or Wal Mart are required to accept gold or silver as payment. I guess they could if they wanted, just as any business is allowed to accept anything they want as payment. >>



Time to move to Utah and open a small corner store or restaurant and the only money accepted is silver and gold bullion coins
since they are legal tender at face value. Talk about a profit margin.
4 ASE's for a breakfast