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Business owner buys 160 morgans for $1200 and finds out they are fake

mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
Found this on coinflation

Read it here!

$7.50 each for morgans...........wow what silver spot chart was the business owner looking at? If it was too good to be true, it probably is LOL
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Comments

  • Your link wasn't working try this one link
    A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore.
    Yogi Berra

  • skier07skier07 Posts: 3,629 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The business owner got what he deserved. He got the short end of the stick attempting to cheat a cheater.

    Bruce
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,157 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why didn't he test the magnetism of the fakes during the transaction?

    Because he was so excited to get his greedy hands on these dollars for $7.50 each, that's why.

    Serves him right.
    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    They both ought to be arrested for theft.

    bobimage
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • This is karma at work

    They both should be charged
  • It is difficult to sympathise with the buyer , it would seem in his haste to "rip" the seller off he only thought to do a magnet test after shelling out the pittance it would have been had they been real. Even more so he should be embarresed letting the world know he checked todays value online and still only offered 7.50.
    I stop short of applauding the conman , he must have been amazed they sold without being tested , a few glasses of saki that evening no doubt .
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    I hope they catch the person. Wonder how he got 160 fake morgans? maybe buying them on ebay from sellers in China?

    The store owner should be embarassed and I hope he gets fewer customers selling to him........$7.50 for a silver dollar, wow! He probably pays $1 for silver halves.
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  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The crooked seller's karma ran over the crooked buyer's Dogma.image
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i> and searched the Internet for comparable prices for them. >>




    I think I'm going to e-mail the police department tomorrow.


    Sure, it makes no difference, but they need to know what kind of %^*^#@#$ they are dealing with.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • I'd like to think it's pretty low on the "to-do" list for the cops.
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭
    The seller's trickery got the better of the buyer's greed.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • AUandAGAUandAG Posts: 24,506 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wonder how he got 160 fake morgans? maybe buying them on ebay from sellers in China?

    Why buy in China when you can buy locally here:
    US Seller of fakes
    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), [email protected]
  • Why, is it not filing a false police report?

    If, and they can, run a simple search on the buyers PC, they can see what he saw for a fair price.

    I know its not on their to do list, but Id rather see this KNOWING dealer charged, than a possible collector who may have not known they were fakes.

    Everyone here including the police seem to be missing something here...

    The sellers motives or knowledge are still in question. As oppose to the buyer, who happens to be in the business of buying such items.

    The buyer/business owner filed a false police report at the very least, and quite possibly tried to commit fraud by deception. And these are facts, not speculation, like the seller of the coins is receiving.

    The more important arrest or charges lay with the corrupt business owner. IMHO


  • << <i>Why, is it not filing a false police report?

    If, and they can, run a simple search on the buyers PC, they can see what he saw for a fair price.

    I know its not on their to do list, but Id rather see this KNOWING dealer charged, than a possible collector who may have not known they were fakes.

    Everyone here including the police seem to be missing something here...

    The sellers motives or knowledge are still in question. As oppose to the buyer, who happens to be in the business of buying such items.

    The buyer/business owner filed a false police report at the very least, and quite possibly tried to commit fraud by deception. And these are facts, not speculation, like the seller of the coins is receiving.

    The more important arrest or charges lay with the corrupt business owner. IMHO >>



    Unscrupulous , yes .. illegal , no

    The dealer offered 7.50 , the seller accepted (gleefully)
  • secondrepublicsecondrepublic Posts: 2,619 ✭✭✭


    << <i> Id rather see this KNOWING dealer charged

    the buyer, who happens to be in the business of buying such items.

    ....

    The dealer offered 7.50 , the seller accepted (gleefully) >>



    You guys need to read the article more carefully. It doesn't say anywhere that the buyer was a coin dealer. The article refers to him as a "businessman" and "merchant." It seems more likely to me that he's a pawn shop or jewelry store owner who is not an expert in coins.
    "Men who had never shown any ability to make or increase fortunes for themselves abounded in brilliant plans for creating and increasing wealth for the country at large." Fiat Money Inflation in France, Andrew Dickson White (1912)
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's not hard to figure out the approx. value is a lot more than $7.50 each.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,471 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Why, is it not filing a false police report?

    If, and they can, run a simple search on the buyers PC, they can see what he saw for a fair price.

    I know its not on their to do list, but Id rather see this KNOWING dealer charged, than a possible collector who may have not known they were fakes.

    Everyone here including the police seem to be missing something here...

    The sellers motives or knowledge are still in question. As oppose to the buyer, who happens to be in the business of buying such items.

    The buyer/business owner filed a false police report at the very least, and quite possibly tried to commit fraud by deception. And these are facts, not speculation, like the seller of the coins is receiving.

    The more important arrest or charges lay with the corrupt business owner. IMHO >>



    Where does it say that he is in the business of buying such items?

    Hmmmm??????
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.


  • << <i>

    << <i> Id rather see this KNOWING dealer charged

    the buyer, who happens to be in the business of buying such items.

    ....

    The dealer offered 7.50 , the seller accepted (gleefully) >>



    You guys need to read the article more carefully. It doesn't say anywhere that the buyer was a coin dealer. The article refers to him as a "businessman" and "merchant." It seems more likely to me that he's a pawn shop or jewelry store owner who is not an expert in coins. >>



    And nobody suggested he was a coin dealer , it's ridiculous how touchy people are on that subject , coin dealers are all on the up and up , sure they are , we all know that.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    when people are so bored that they are searching the internet for garbage and then thinking about emailing the police because they don't like what they read....

    I have a suggestion.

    Turn the computer OFF, step away and go run the dog. You've been on the internet too long today.image
    Have a nice day
  • Yes, the police have alot more important issues to address, than $1,200!

    Come on forum, get a life and let this thing go........... or let's go back to talking about Charlie Sheen. Geez!!!!!!!

    WHO REALLY CARES? Come on please reply if this issue is really important in your life? image

    Has no one EVER "lost" money in a deal? You write it off and learn from it.

    So done with this thread. Thanks for letting me vent AND do I not mean to minimize others opinions. It's your choice to dwell on such issues.



  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    Moral of the story...stick to what you know. The "merchant" apparently knew nothing about coins and their value...and where the hell is he getting his info.? Ultimately the merchant must've thought $1200 was a fair offer based on his "poor" due diligence...or maybe he did know, but i'd bet he didn't. That is why the seller went to this particular place to sell what he knew were fakes. He found " a fish to take the bait". Gee that phrase that i argued against recently sounds famliar.
    I think based on what I read that the merchant is a victim of being naive/ignorant and the only "crook" was the the seller. Again, stick to what you know.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • What if , let's say the buyer @ 7.50 knew very well they were fake , What if the buyer didn't even pay as much as 7.50 but said he did , but ok , let's leave it at 7.50.Is it not possible the buyer only called foul on them when he himself was caught trying to sell them on at full price ? Why did it take 5 days to find a magnet and do a test ? Maybe it wasnt the buyer @7.50 that did the magnet test.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,471 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>What if , let's say the buyer @ 7.50 knew very well they were fake , What if the buyer didn't even pay as much as 7.50 but said he did , but ok , let's leave it at 7.50.Is it not possible the buyer only called foul on them when he himself was caught trying to sell them on at full price ? Why did it take 5 days to find a magnet and do a test ? Maybe it wasnt the buyer @7.50 that did the magnet test. >>



    Good point. I'll bet he tried to sell them to a coin dealer and the dealer showed him the magnet test.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • AmigoAmigo Posts: 966

    Sometimes Dealers aren't as detailed as they should be.
    I buy a lot of gold from the public. The first test I do is with a ceramic magnet. It elimates a lot of the hassles when dealing with multiple items.

    Two days before Thanksgiving, I buy well over a dzn pieces of jewelry from a young woman. She brought her Godmother along. I test every piece before buying them, regardless of whether or not they are stamped, just like I always do. Most everything was 10 or 14kt.

    The next day, the Godmother calls me and we meet. She had about a dzn pieces as well. I was somewhat in a hurry. First thing she says " I have two nice chains from Italy, do they bring anymore than just Spot? " I explained why they don't, in a hurry so that I could start testing all the other items that were not clearly marked, I only checked the stamp that said " Italy 14kt". Usually the Italian stuff is right on target with the gold content, unlike many other pieces that are stamped 14kt turn out to be a lower kt etc. Anyway, I did the magnet test and didn't go any further. Most all gold plated jewelry is over some type of ferrous material and always sticks to the magnet. I acid tested the other items as none were attracted to the magnet, and as I recall, they were all plated.

    It wasn't until a week or so later when things slowed down, that in the middle of the night I got this nagging feeling. Why did she have two identical heavy necklaces ? I don't think it's common practice for women to buy identical pieces. Realizing I didn't acid test them, I got out of bed and did it. They turned out to be very high quality plated over non ferrous alloy that were obviously meant to defraud someone. It was the first out and out fraudulent purchase I recall making in the 7 years I've been doing this. It was about a $1000.00 learning lesson. Now, it doesn't matter how beautiful the chain is, with the possiblity of reselling to friends for their wifes etc, I take out my file and make a nice deep cut.

    Police here won't even put down their coffee cups on a theft/fraud less than $2500. However, she calls me back in about a month with more jewelry to sell. I called one of the prosecuting attorneys who said he'd prosecute. I asked the Fraud Dept Sgt to call him, they sent out a patrol officer when I met the lady. Sure enough, she had another identical necklace to sell me. He wrote her up, confiscating the necklace and she plead guilty, with me getting $200 / mth restitution. I think she just got probation with a fine and restitution. Nevertheless, she's got a criminal record now which will put a big burden on her for a long time.
    image
  • mkman123mkman123 Posts: 6,849 ✭✭✭✭
    Amigo thanks for telling your story!
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  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The magnetic fake jewelry must be relatively recent, as most of the bad jewelry that I saw over the years was NOT magnetic.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 32,083 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>when people are so bored that they are searching the internet for garbage and then thinking about emailing the police because they don't like what they read....

    I have a suggestion.

    Turn the computer OFF, step away and go run the dog. You've been on the internet too long today.image >>



    I kind of agree with you.

    On the other hand, I also kind of agree with the person that said this is like the drug dealer who calls the cops after getting ripped off on a deal.


    I wanted to make sure the cops knew they were dealing with two crooks.


    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>when people are so bored that they are searching the internet for garbage and then thinking about emailing the police because they don't like what they read....

    I have a suggestion.

    Turn the computer OFF, step away and go run the dog. You've been on the internet too long today.image >>



    I kind of agree with you.

    On the other hand, I also kind of agree with the person that said this is like the drug dealer who calls the cops after getting ripped off on a deal.


    I wanted to make sure the cops knew they were dealing with two crooks. >>




    How can you say that the business owner is a crook. He is not. He made a low ball offer and it was accepted. Maybe he didn't know much about coins. Unlike bullion, many collectibles, such as baseball cards, do not sell for what their "market value" is. Buying baseball cards at 1/4 of market value is probably a fair transaction for everyone. The seller may not know that bullion sells near its market price.
    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&amp;_in_kw=1&amp;_ex_kw=&amp;_sacat=0&amp;_udlo=&amp;_udhi=&amp;_ftrt=901&amp;_ftrv=1&amp;_sabdlo=&amp;_sabdhi=&amp;_samilow=&amp;_samihi=&amp;_sadis=15&amp;_stpos=61611&amp;_sargn=-1&saslc=1&amp;_salic=1&amp;_fss=1&amp;_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&amp;_saslop=1&amp;_sasl=mygirlsthree3&amp;_sop=12&amp;_dmd=1&amp;_ipg=50&amp;_fosrp=1)
    >

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  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    How can you say that the business owner is a crook. He is not. He made a low ball offer and it was accepted. Maybe he didn't know much about coins. Unlike bullion, many collectibles, such as baseball cards, do not sell for what their "market value" is. Buying baseball cards at 1/4 of market value is probably a fair transaction for everyone. The seller may not know that bullion sells near its market price
    image

    I think the only crook was the seller. He knew the buyer didn't know much about coins, and maybe had a rep of being ignorant to these kinds of things. That's why he choose that particular buyer.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,471 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is hard to say if the "businessman" is a crook, or just a sleaze, or extremely ignorant. He did offer more than face value. Back when I was working, I had people walk into the coin shop and try to buy $20 gold pieces for the "$20" printed on the slab. Every coin dealer has had the same thing happen.

    If either the seller or the "businessman" had tried to deposit the "silver dollars" at his bank at face value, there is a good chance that the bank would take them at face value. Who would be the "crook" then?

    No answers here. Just throwing out thoughts.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • TheBigBTheBigB Posts: 942
    I would not call the buyer a crook, but scams succeed when there is too much greed.
  • I remember someone here got a 1 oz gold coin from someone for $10.00 I forgot who though!
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  • << <i>I remember someone here got a 1 oz gold coin from someone for $10.00 I forgot who though! >>



    image How in the name of the wee man did that happen ? Here of all places ..wow
  • dontippetdontippet Posts: 2,581 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I remember someone here got a 1 oz gold coin from someone for $10.00 I forgot who though! >>



    image How in the name of the wee man did that happen ? Here of all places ..wow >>



    It wasn't here, it was one of the posters here. He went to a coin show and purchased a commerative coin for $10. Most of the coins were not gold, but there were a few made out of gold. The seller assumed this particular coin was one of the common variety.
    > [Click on this link to see my ebay listings.](https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=&amp;_in_kw=1&amp;_ex_kw=&amp;_sacat=0&amp;_udlo=&amp;_udhi=&amp;_ftrt=901&amp;_ftrv=1&amp;_sabdlo=&amp;_sabdhi=&amp;_samilow=&amp;_samihi=&amp;_sadis=15&amp;_stpos=61611&amp;_sargn=-1&saslc=1&amp;_salic=1&amp;_fss=1&amp;_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&amp;_saslop=1&amp;_sasl=mygirlsthree3&amp;_sop=12&amp;_dmd=1&amp;_ipg=50&amp;_fosrp=1)
    >

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  • "The business owner got what he deserved. He got the short end of the stick attempting to cheat a cheater."

    image
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