PCGS price guide now has MS65 common date Morgans at $250, up from $225. So silver went up $3 in the week and Morgans went up $25. Love the leverage. At this rate, when silver hits $50, MS 65 Morgans will be OVER $300
<< <i>PCGS price guide now has MS65 common date Morgans at $250, up from $225. So silver went up $3 in the week and Morgans went up $25. Love the leverage. At this rate, when silver hits $50, MS 65 Morgans will be OVER $300 >>
Silver moved a few bucks and dealer bid on the 64's moved about 15-20, all about the demand right now.
Gold and Silver has worldwide buyers who have trillions of dollars in capital to spend. Meanwhile, the marketmakers on slabbed dollars may have a few million. When gold goes down, there are underbidders with billions in captial. When slab bids get pulled, well, there is always a $1 bid.
Considering there are only 1-2 MILLION in PCGS/NGC MS63-64 in existence, it's unlikely the marketers have access to anything but a fraction of that quantity. It's not like every one ever graded is going to show up for sale. Just 1 BILLION dollars would probably buy all the PCGS & NGC slabbed common dates from 63-67 in existence. One single Billionaire could do that damage on their own through dozens of suppliers. Bill Gates is that you?
A few billion is more than enough. No trillions needed here. The nation's debt increases $4 BILL each day.
<< <i>Considering there are only 1-2 MILLION in PCGS/NGC MS63-64 in existence, it's unlikely the marketers have access to anything but a fraction of that quantity. It's not like every one ever graded is going to show up for sale. Just 1 BILLION dollars would probably buy all the PCGS & NGC slabbed common dates from 63-67 in existence. One single Billionaire could do that damage on their own through dozens of suppliers. Bill Gates is that you?
A few billion is more than enough. No trillions needed here. The nation's debt increases $4 BILL each day.
roadrunner >>
Very true. But just imagine the opposite of the buying scenario. The market is rising, so collectors come on board buying MS 64, 65 dollars at another 20% premium hoping to catch the bandwagon. With all the dollars in smaller hands, the marketmakers stop buying, just stop. So, those marketmaker dealers who were buying, sold all their stock in one week into the marketplace. Now their bids are gone. Who gets stuck with all those coins? Maybe thousands of small collectors/dealers?
This is nothing new, the runnup will end very quickly. Just when, only the marketmakers know for sure.
If there is someone out there buying those in quantity today, then even with an absence of bids tomorrow, those prices will be backed up if the original buyers are in it for the long haul. One thing is for sure. There will be an absence of MS63-65 Morgans for quite some time until more can be made and brought to market. It's not like FRN's where more can be printed tomorrow. How many more orig BU bags of Morgans are out there to help restore levels? These MS64 Morgans are bringing 3X melt. That's not exactly a huge premium for a 100 yr old coin of the realm. It's far cheaper than many other BU coins from the 20th century - including wheat cents, mercs, buffs, walkers, etc. 3X intrinsic value is not a huge premium these days. It's on par with a lot of jewelry and other collectibles.
There are lots of people that bought MS64 Saints 16 months ago for $2200 (today at $1700ish). Are they buried for life? Probably not. When the next move to $1500, or $1800, or $2000 comes along, they will get pushed up much higher than $2200. The same will probably occur with the Morgans. The silver bull doesn't end this year. I'm not one recommending MS64 Morgans at $96 but I think we all could have figured they were stupid cheap at $42-$44 each not long ago. Just imagine taking what took the TPG's 25 yrs to create is trying to be taken off the market in several months. And once most of it is gone, then what? Are there other nations out there that were stamping out silver dollar's or crowns in the 1880's to 1920's in the size that the US was? I don't think so but a world numismatist could correct me. The British, Canadian, Mexican, Chinese, Indian, etc. crowns of that era are probably quite expensive in choice condition vs. melt value. The fact that the US had a huge quantity of these socked away in banks was the only reason they survived to this day in mint condition. The fact that it can all be bought up for a Billion or two is pretty amazing. There are an equivalent quantity of total slabbed $20's out there (1-2 MILL) in all grades (circ-gem). Those could all be bought up for $3-5 Billion. Again, I don't think there is anything comparable out there in the world for a 1 oz mint issued gold coin from that time period with such a tiny premium to melt (10-22% premium for VF-64).
<< <i>If there is someone out there buying those in quantity today, then even with an absence of bids tomorrow, those prices will be backed up if the original buyers are in it for the long haul. One thing is for sure. There will be an absence of MS63-65 Morgans for quite some time until more can be made and brought to market. It's not like FRN's where more can be printed tomorrow. How many more orig BU bags of Morgans are out there to help restore levels? These MS64 Morgans are bringing 3X melt. That's not exactly a huge premium for a 100 yr old coin of the realm. It's far cheaper than many other BU coins from the 20th century - including wheat cents, mercs, buffs, walkers, etc. 3X intrinsic value is not a huge premium these days. It's on par with a lot of jewelry and other collectibles.
There are lots of people that bought MS64 Saints 16 months ago for $2200 (today at $1700ish). Are they buried for life? Probably not. When the next move to $1500, or $1800, or $2000 comes along, they will get pushed up much higher than $2200. The same will probably occur with the Morgans. The silver bull doesn't end this year. I'm not one recommending MS64 Morgans at $96 but I think we all could have figured they were stupid cheap at $42-$44 each not long ago.
roadrunner >>
I just don't agree. I don't do a lot with certified gold, but I purchased a $20 Lib raw and sent it in for grading. It came back an MS64, that following week, I went to Long Beach expecting to sell it easily at a tad under sheet to Heritage or Spectrum, etc. When I offered it to the marketmakers, NONE wanted to buy, not at a discount, not at all. Each company told me that they had just purchased quanties of MS64 Libs and Saints on monday. The market makers had STOPPED buying at a Long Beach show. I sold it to another dealer way back in the room who had no idea the market had just crashed in the front of the room. That coin price has not recovered to this day. This scenario plays out for every high population generic coin. From Commems to generic type. Speculating on bullion is one thing, speculating on investment coins is dangerous.
The generic gold market has crashed numerous times over the past 5 yrs. I've been part of each one of those, especially at FUN shows by Friday when Heritage and others were done buying gold and put up a closed sign. But that doesn't speak for the entire world. The amount of coins that a Heritage, Raroca, NGE (rip), etc. can handle at one time is miniscule compared to what has been graded. We have a generic coin market in silver dollars and $20's that is worth $5 BILL by itself. Our "big" dealers probably can't handle even 1% of the market at one time. Unfortunately our coin market never has had the liquidity to handle these swings, up or down. Demand will as usual pick up again when the time is right. The market makers won't have the coins to handle a strong up-surge. Prices will rise until the buyers are satiated and gold peaks at some high number. And as you said, they don't want to buy a single coin when things are trending hard down. Imagine if the stock market worked that way! But our illiquid generic market will probably always be that way. Does it mean MS64 Saints will never again surge above $2200? I doubt it. Someone finally woke up and figured out that MS64 Morgans at under $50 were stupid cheap with silver at $30. And at the current $1725+, MS64 Saints at around 20% above spot are pretty stupid cheap as well. Circ wheat cents carry a much bigger premium.
If there are really tens of $$billions looking for places to park in semi-bullion numismatic gold and silver coins, then it matters not that Heritage and others can't handle the flows. Eventually those buyers from around the world will get their coins. Watch what happens to these MS63 and MS64 Morgans as bullion silver dries up from the Comex, LBMA, etc. There will be a time soon where 90% will be very difficult to get. People will be looking at slabbed Morgan and Peace dollars as a reasonable alternative....as they are now. Probably the same thing with generic gold coins. I am also quite aware that the generic gold coin market (other than $20's) basically peaked back in spring of 2006. But that doesn't imply they are going to be dead forever. A MS63 $10 Indian at $1125 or so (60% premium to spot) is actually a better value than a 63 Morgan at >2X spot. Someone will eventually figure it out again as gold goes higher. How many thought MS65 Morgans were dead "forever" at $75 each back around 7-8 yrs ago? Probably most here. I remember lugging a few gem boxes of 1880-s Morgans with me at a Balty show back then and getting zero interest. No one wanted them. They were never going to be rare and there were just too many coins to ever make them an investment....lol. Now they are 3X higher and in furious demand. Cycles come and go. I ended up selling those Morgans for cost at $75 and was happy to be out from under them.....lol.
<< <i>The generic gold market has crashed numerous times over the past 5 yrs. I've been part of each one of those, especially at FUN shows by Friday when Heritage and others were done buying gold and put up a closed sign. But that doesn't speak for the entire world. The amount of coins that a Heritage, Raroca, NGE (rip), etc. can handle at one time is miniscule compared to what has been graded. We have a generic coin market in silver dollars and $20's that is worth $5 BILL by itself. Our "big" dealers probably can't handle even 1% of the market at one time. Unfortunately our coin market never has had the liquidity to handle these swings, up or down. Demand will as usual pick up again when the time is right. The market makers won't have the coins to handle a strong up-surge. Prices will rise until the buyers are satiated and gold peaks at some high number. And as you said, they don't want to buy a single coin when things are trending hard down. Imagine if the stock market worked that way! But our illiquid generic market will probably always be that way. Does it mean MS64 Saints will never again surge above $2200? I doubt it. Someone finally woke up and figured out that MS64 Morgans at under $50 were stupid cheap with silver at $30. And at the current $1725+, MS64 Saints at around 20% above melt are pretty stupid cheap as well.
If there are really tens of billions looking for places to park in semi-bullion numismatic gold and silver coins, then it matters not that Heritage and others can't handle the flows. Eventually those buyers from around the world will get their coins. Watch what happens to these MS63 and MS64 Morgans as bullion silver dries up from the Comex, LBMA, etc. There will be a time soon where 90% will be very difficult to get. People will be looking at slabbed Morgan and Peace dollars as a reasonable alternative....as they are now.
roadrunner >>
If slabbed coins were regulated and traded on the worldwide commodities markets, it would be a different story and I would probably agree with most you have said. However, who knows how many slabbed coins are leveraged or hidden or are being run up for whatever reason. MS63 coins I will agree are moving because of bullion. But MS64, MS65 and MS66? Or maybe the opportunity is right for marketers to run up MS65/66 coins to create a bubble? If you have these coins in hand, it may be wise to sell a portion of the existing stock into the current market, if you want to buy MS65/66 coins with which to speculate, there are far better alternatives closer to intrinsic metal values.
Considering that people will pay $45 for a modern silver eagle, $89 for a beautiful 125 year old big silver US coin minted in the American West during the days of Bat Masterson and Wyatt Earp is an INCREDIBLE BARGAIN. Coin dealers have this myopia that their only market is putting on a dirty t-shirt and selling their coins at 5% under wholesale, and anyone marketing coins at 2 or 3 times wholesale to a wide general audience is a big crook.
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>Hey! No fair editing while I'm writing a response. >>
PM me when you're typing so I don't edit...lol. Usually I re-read what I first wrote and then add in additional thoughts and ideas as they come.
I pretty much agree with what you wrote. Today's silver market is not the one of 2001-2009. It's also not the one of 1963-1980 either. If silver is truly coming into a shortage situation, and the bankster's short positions blow up, it could get quite exciting. What do you do when a commodity starts to run dry or runs up against never-ending shortages due to world growth? Those unloved Morgans might just become "forever loved" if silver remains in a supply shortage. While most say "it's never different this time"....it just might be with silver this time around.
Our inefficient generic coin market will have to figure out how to deal with an "infinite" potential buying source coming from outside.
I like what Frank wrote. Though I might not always agree with charging 2X and 3X markups. A fair 10-30% profit is ok. What would you rather keep for a long term hold, a pile of several thousand circ wheat cents worth $96 or a MS64 Morgan at $96? Where was all the disgust when sea water halves from the 1850's and 1860's were being marketed for $1,000 each as treasure trove? Me, I'll take the MS64 Morgan that survive in quantity only to luck. At 15-20% above spot I look at MS62-MS64 $20 Saints as bargains as well. Same comment for the MS63-64 $10 Libs and Indians. If not for FDR in 1933-1934, those $20 Saints wouldn't have survived in quantity either.
And if there is a nation out there that has an equivalent 80-130 yr old silver coin to our MS63/64 Morgan silvers dollar please educate me (ie valued at approx 3X spot or less, available in quantity in choice mint state condition). Having no competition is a big plus.
Morgans, and for that matter, Peace dollars, have been in doldrums for two decades. Their values have been way below their historic highs. The rise in silver have certainly woken them up. I suspected it would, at least a little bit, when I started working on my Peace dollar set. But, I grossly underestimated by how much!
Improperly Cleaned, Our passion for numismatics is Genuine! Now featuring correct spelling.
I just sent 40 Morgans to PCGS economy...hope the prices stay up until they get back! This should be good news for CLCT because raw silver dollars, no matter how nice, aren't bringing a whole lot more than $40 on ebay. Just to freak out the Kool Aid drinkers, I posted a Morgan in an NTC slab on eBay with a $1200 buy it now. (21-D Prooflike) I paid Coleman Foster $850 at the Fort Worth ANA and forgot about it the last few times I sent coins to PCGS or NGC. I am having great fun getting emails and phone calls from dealers who said they would consider bidding if I crack it out and relist it raw, or sell it to them off ebay with a return privilege, but they could never ever, not no how, not no way, have it on their bidding history that they bought a coin in an NTC slab...it would harm their reputation, or send them to heII or something...
Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
<< <i>At the Santa Clara Coin Show, I could only get $85 for my NGC MS64 commons. >>
I was at Santa Clara from Thursday until an hour ago. Provided your coins weren't darkly toned I would've paid a little more than that.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Well, being numismatically conservative usually has it's benefits. Most of the financially conservative folks in my neighborhood still own their homes. Those who speculated lost theirs, are long since gone and the banks sold them for 1/2 of their highs. Numismatists ride the coattails of the marketmakers.
The 'so called' increase is due only to the increase in silver.
Given the two choices of buying a common ms63 Morgan for $90 or 2 ounces of silver for just about the same price, who on this planet would choose the Morgan over the 2 ounces of silver?
I sure wouldn't.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
Don't know how the OP got a quote of $90 for common date MS-63 Morgan Dollars. They are at $66 on the April 29 weekly CDN. MS-64's commons are at $108.
The OP must have been confused about the $90 bid, which is for common date MS-64 PEACE DOLLARS.
<< <i>I walked some morgans around at CSNS and couldn't get anything close to these bid numbers >>
You were seeing the wrong dealers. I was at table #207 from setup until 3pm today and I would've offered you a very competitive buy offer.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I walked some morgans around at CSNS and couldn't get anything close to these bid numbers >>
I heard the dealers were paying $55 for half toned MS64 morgans and $27.50 for 3/4 toned MS64 Morgans. MS65 Morgans were bringing $225 only for white coins graded between Sept. 2008 and Jan of 2009.
Just checked bids this morning and despite the drop in silver spot price the bids are holding up.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
You have to have access to the magical CCE machine on which mysterious bids for slabbed coins are posted and retracted with lightning speed. Often a shadowy coin dealer will post bids for a specific grade for 1, 10, 1000 coins, then the unwitting seller must send the slabbed coins, await payment, and pray the dealer does not return any coins. This requires a bit of money to have access to this magical machine, of which the pagans have none.
Go on Vacation, come back and Boom! Price surge on 63,64,65 $ilver dollars. Nice to see. Anyone remember true MS65's going for $500 back in the 80's? The good ol' days may be coming back
yes just picked up some 65 rattlers from a collection that hasn't seen the light of day since the 80's. Everyone still has original price sticker of $475-$550 stuck to the back
Comments
<< <i>PCGS price guide now has MS65 common date Morgans at $250, up from $225. So silver went up $3 in the week and Morgans went up $25. Love the leverage. At this rate, when silver hits $50, MS 65 Morgans will be OVER $300 >>
Silver moved a few bucks and dealer bid on the 64's moved about 15-20, all about the demand right now.
Be careful when playing this game.
TRUTH
every one ever graded is going to show up for sale. Just 1 BILLION dollars would probably buy all the PCGS & NGC slabbed common dates from 63-67 in existence.
One single Billionaire could do that damage on their own through dozens of suppliers. Bill Gates is that you?
A few billion is more than enough. No trillions needed here. The nation's debt increases $4 BILL each day.
roadrunner
<< <i>Considering there are only 1-2 MILLION in PCGS/NGC MS63-64 in existence, it's unlikely the marketers have access to anything but a fraction of that quantity. It's not like
every one ever graded is going to show up for sale. Just 1 BILLION dollars would probably buy all the PCGS & NGC slabbed common dates from 63-67 in existence.
One single Billionaire could do that damage on their own through dozens of suppliers. Bill Gates is that you?
A few billion is more than enough. No trillions needed here. The nation's debt increases $4 BILL each day.
roadrunner >>
Very true. But just imagine the opposite of the buying scenario. The market is rising, so collectors come on board buying MS 64, 65 dollars at another 20% premium hoping to catch the bandwagon. With all the dollars in smaller hands, the marketmakers stop buying, just stop. So, those marketmaker dealers who were buying, sold all their stock in one week into the marketplace. Now their bids are gone. Who gets stuck with all those coins?
This is nothing new, the runnup will end very quickly. Just when, only the marketmakers know for sure.
TRUTH
One thing is for sure. There will be an absence of MS63-65 Morgans for quite some time until more can be made and brought to market. It's not like FRN's where more can be
printed tomorrow. How many more orig BU bags of Morgans are out there to help restore levels? These MS64 Morgans are bringing 3X melt. That's not exactly a huge premium for a 100 yr old coin of the realm. It's far cheaper than many other BU coins from the 20th century - including wheat cents, mercs, buffs, walkers, etc. 3X intrinsic value is not a huge
premium these days. It's on par with a lot of jewelry and other collectibles.
There are lots of people that bought MS64 Saints 16 months ago for $2200 (today at $1700ish). Are they buried for life? Probably not. When the next move to $1500, or $1800,
or $2000 comes along, they will get pushed up much higher than $2200. The same will probably occur with the Morgans. The silver bull doesn't end this year. I'm not one
recommending MS64 Morgans at $96 but I think we all could have figured they were stupid cheap at $42-$44 each not long ago. Just imagine taking what took the TPG's 25 yrs to
create is trying to be taken off the market in several months. And once most of it is gone, then what? Are there other nations out there that were stamping out silver dollar's or crowns
in the 1880's to 1920's in the size that the US was? I don't think so but a world numismatist could correct me. The British, Canadian, Mexican, Chinese, Indian, etc. crowns of that
era are probably quite expensive in choice condition vs. melt value. The fact that the US had a huge quantity of these socked away in banks was the only reason they survived to this
day in mint condition. The fact that it can all be bought up for a Billion or two is pretty amazing. There are an equivalent quantity of total slabbed $20's out there (1-2 MILL) in all
grades (circ-gem). Those could all be bought up for $3-5 Billion. Again, I don't think there is anything comparable out there in the world for a 1 oz mint issued gold coin from that time period with such a tiny premium to melt (10-22% premium for VF-64).
roadrunner
<< <i>If there is someone out there buying those in quantity today, then even with an absence of bids tomorrow, those prices will be backed up if the original buyers are in it for the long haul.
One thing is for sure. There will be an absence of MS63-65 Morgans for quite some time until more can be made and brought to market. It's not like FRN's where more can be
printed tomorrow. How many more orig BU bags of Morgans are out there to help restore levels? These MS64 Morgans are bringing 3X melt. That's not exactly a huge premium for a 100 yr old coin of the realm. It's far cheaper than many other BU coins from the 20th century - including wheat cents, mercs, buffs, walkers, etc. 3X intrinsic value is not a huge
premium these days. It's on par with a lot of jewelry and other collectibles.
There are lots of people that bought MS64 Saints 16 months ago for $2200 (today at $1700ish). Are they buried for life? Probably not. When the next move to $1500, or $1800,
or $2000 comes along, they will get pushed up much higher than $2200. The same will probably occur with the Morgans. The silver bull doesn't end this year. I'm not one
recommending MS64 Morgans at $96 but I think we all could have figured they were stupid cheap at $42-$44 each not long ago.
roadrunner >>
I just don't agree. I don't do a lot with certified gold, but I purchased a $20 Lib raw and sent it in for grading. It came back an MS64, that following week, I went to Long Beach expecting to sell it easily at a tad under sheet to Heritage or Spectrum, etc. When I offered it to the marketmakers, NONE wanted to buy, not at a discount, not at all. Each company told me that they had just purchased quanties of MS64 Libs and Saints on monday. The market makers had STOPPED buying at a Long Beach show. I sold it to another dealer way back in the room who had no idea the market had just crashed in the front of the room. That coin price has not recovered to this day. This scenario plays out for every high population generic coin. From Commems to generic type. Speculating on bullion is one thing, speculating on investment coins is dangerous.
TRUTH
If there are really tens of $$billions looking for places to park in semi-bullion numismatic gold and silver coins, then it matters not that Heritage and others can't handle the flows. Eventually those buyers from around the world will get their coins. Watch what happens to these MS63 and MS64 Morgans as bullion silver dries up from the Comex, LBMA, etc. There will be a time soon where 90% will be very difficult to get. People will be looking at slabbed Morgan and Peace dollars as a reasonable alternative....as they are now. Probably the same thing with generic gold coins. I am also quite aware that the generic gold coin market (other than $20's) basically peaked back in spring of 2006. But that doesn't imply they are going to be dead forever. A MS63 $10 Indian at $1125 or so (60% premium to spot) is actually a better value than a 63 Morgan at >2X spot. Someone will eventually figure it out again as gold goes higher. How many thought MS65 Morgans were dead "forever" at $75 each back around 7-8 yrs ago? Probably most here. I remember lugging a few gem boxes of 1880-s Morgans with me at a Balty show back then and getting zero interest. No one wanted them. They were never going to be rare and there were just too many coins to ever make them an investment....lol. Now they are 3X higher and in furious demand. Cycles come and go. I ended up selling those Morgans for cost at $75 and was happy to be out from under them.....lol.
roadrunner
"The time to buy is when people are selling, and sell when people are buying..."
"You never know who's swimming naked until the tide goes out"
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>The generic gold market has crashed numerous times over the past 5 yrs. I've been part of each one of those, especially at FUN shows by Friday when Heritage and others were done buying gold and put up a closed sign. But that doesn't speak for the entire world. The amount of coins that a Heritage, Raroca, NGE (rip), etc. can handle at one time is miniscule compared to what has been graded. We have a generic coin market in silver dollars and $20's that is worth $5 BILL by itself. Our "big" dealers probably can't handle even 1% of the market at one time. Unfortunately our coin market never has had the liquidity to handle these swings, up or down. Demand will as usual pick up again when the time is right. The market makers won't have the coins to handle a strong up-surge. Prices will rise until the buyers are satiated and gold peaks at some high number. And as you said, they don't want to buy a single coin when things are trending hard down. Imagine if the stock market worked that way! But our illiquid generic market will probably always be that way. Does it mean MS64 Saints will never again surge above $2200? I doubt it. Someone finally woke up and figured out that MS64 Morgans at under $50 were stupid cheap with silver at $30. And at the current $1725+, MS64 Saints at around 20% above melt are pretty stupid cheap as well.
If there are really tens of billions looking for places to park in semi-bullion numismatic gold and silver coins, then it matters not that Heritage and others can't handle the flows. Eventually those buyers from around the world will get their coins. Watch what happens to these MS63 and MS64 Morgans as bullion silver dries up from the Comex, LBMA, etc. There
will be a time soon where 90% will be very difficult to get. People will be looking at slabbed Morgan and Peace dollars as a reasonable alternative....as they are now.
roadrunner >>
If slabbed coins were regulated and traded on the worldwide commodities markets, it would be a different story and I would probably agree with most you have said. However, who knows how many slabbed coins are leveraged or hidden or are being run up for whatever reason. MS63 coins I will agree are moving because of bullion. But MS64, MS65 and MS66? Or maybe the opportunity is right for marketers to run up MS65/66 coins to create a bubble? If you have these coins in hand, it may be wise to sell a portion of the existing stock into the current market, if you want to buy MS65/66 coins with which to speculate, there are far better alternatives closer to intrinsic metal values.
TRUTH
TRUTH
<< <i>Hey! No fair editing while I'm writing a response. >>
PM me when you're typing so I don't edit...lol. Usually I re-read what I first wrote and then add in additional thoughts and ideas as they come.
I pretty much agree with what you wrote. Today's silver market is not the one of 2001-2009. It's also not the one of 1963-1980 either. If silver is truly
coming into a shortage situation, and the bankster's short positions blow up, it could get quite exciting. What do you do when a commodity starts to run dry or
runs up against never-ending shortages due to world growth? Those unloved Morgans might just become "forever loved" if silver remains in a supply shortage.
While most say "it's never different this time"....it just might be with silver this time around.
Our inefficient generic coin market will have to figure out how to deal with an "infinite" potential buying source coming from outside.
I like what Frank wrote. Though I might not always agree with charging 2X and 3X markups. A fair 10-30% profit is ok. What would you rather keep for a long term
hold, a pile of several thousand circ wheat cents worth $96 or a MS64 Morgan at $96? Where was all the disgust when sea water halves from the 1850's and 1860's were
being marketed for $1,000 each as treasure trove? Me, I'll take the MS64 Morgan that survive in quantity only to luck. At 15-20% above spot I look at MS62-MS64
$20 Saints as bargains as well. Same comment for the MS63-64 $10 Libs and Indians. If not for FDR in 1933-1934, those $20 Saints wouldn't have survived in quantity either.
And if there is a nation out there that has an equivalent 80-130 yr old silver coin to our MS63/64 Morgan silvers dollar please educate me (ie valued at approx 3X spot or less,
available in quantity in choice mint state condition). Having no competition is a big plus.
roadrunner
Prices still on the rise!!
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
It ain't even close to time yet.
silver dollars, no matter how nice, aren't bringing a whole lot more than $40 on ebay. Just to freak out the Kool Aid drinkers,
I posted a Morgan in an NTC slab on eBay with a $1200 buy it now. (21-D Prooflike) I paid Coleman Foster $850 at the Fort Worth ANA and forgot about
it the last few times I sent coins to PCGS or NGC. I am having great fun getting emails and phone calls from dealers who said they would consider bidding
if I crack it out and relist it raw, or sell it to them off ebay with a return privilege, but they could never ever, not no how, not no way, have it on their bidding history
that they bought a coin in an NTC slab...it would harm their reputation, or send them to heII or something...
BST Transactions: DonnyJf, MrOrganic, Justanothercoinaddict, Fivecents, Slq, Jdimmick,
Robb, Tee135, Ibzman350, Mercfan, Outhaul, Erickso1, Cugamongacoins, Indiananationals, Wayne Herndon
Negative BST Transactions:
<< <i>At the Santa Clara Coin Show, I could only get $85 for my NGC MS64 commons. >>
I talked to a couple of knowledge dollars dealers at Santa Clara. Let's just say the party will not last long.
TRUTH
<< <i>At the Santa Clara Coin Show, I could only get $85 for my NGC MS64 commons. >>
I was at Santa Clara from Thursday until an hour ago. Provided your coins weren't darkly toned I would've paid a little more than that.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
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<< <i>At the Santa Clara Coin Show, I could only get $85 for my NGC MS64 commons. >>
I talked to a couple of knowledge dollars dealers at Santa Clara. Let's just say the party will not last long.
TRUTH >>
Yeah, cuase coin guys give great investment advice.
Personally, I think all these Debbie Downers will be buying my Morgans when I start selling em.
If you want some investment advice, go read the last 300 threads on the PM forum.
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<< <i>
<< <i>At the Santa Clara Coin Show, I could only get $85 for my NGC MS64 commons. >>
I talked to a couple of knowledge dollars dealers at Santa Clara. Let's just say the party will not last long.
TRUTH >>
Yeah, cuase coin guys give great investment advice.
Personally, I think all these Debbie Downers will be buying my Morgans when I start selling em.
If you want some investment advice, go read the last 300 threads on the PM forum. >>
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
TRUTH
I predict $100 greysheet bid on MS64 Morgans very soon. Only $9 dollars away!
All common Morgan and Peace dollars MS64 and up moved up in price again this week.
Even I am considering selling a fewMS63 and MS64 common dates at these prices!
Where's the collector demand?
The 'so called' increase is due only to the increase in silver.
Given the two choices of buying a common ms63 Morgan for $90 or 2 ounces of silver for just about the same price, who on this planet would choose the Morgan over the 2 ounces of silver?
I sure wouldn't.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
My My, 64's are about a hundi on EBay.
What's up with the 1921? Still selling for $70?
I am going to go dig more out and ditch them. I bought some of my 64's for 25 bucks.
The OP must have been confused about the $90 bid, which is for common date MS-64 PEACE DOLLARS.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>I'm prepared to party like it's 1989. >>
LOL!!!!!!!!!! He is from my neck of the WOODS!
<< <i>The OP must have been confused about the $90 bid, which is for common date MS-64 PEACE DOLLARS. >>
Thanks...It has been corrected.
<< <i>I walked some morgans around at CSNS and couldn't get anything close to these bid numbers >>
Were they bright white? Or were they toned? Only bright white with no spots bringing bid prices.
Ebay is bringing around bid prices.
<< <i>I walked some morgans around at CSNS and couldn't get anything close to these bid numbers >>
You were seeing the wrong dealers. I was at table #207 from setup until 3pm today and I would've offered you a very competitive buy offer.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>I walked some morgans around at CSNS and couldn't get anything close to these bid numbers >>
I heard the dealers were paying $55 for half toned MS64 morgans and $27.50 for 3/4 toned MS64 Morgans. MS65 Morgans were bringing $225 only for white coins graded between Sept. 2008 and Jan of 2009.
TRUTH
<< <i>POP Silver Down 10%. >>
Just checked bids this morning and despite the drop in silver spot price the bids are holding up.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
<< <i>Where does one go to "check bids"? >>
You have to have access to the magical CCE machine on which mysterious bids for slabbed coins are posted and retracted with lightning speed. Often a shadowy coin dealer will post bids for a specific grade for 1, 10, 1000 coins, then the unwitting seller must send the slabbed coins, await payment, and pray the dealer does not return any coins. This requires a bit of money to have access to this magical machine, of which the pagans have none.
TRUTH
Nice to see. Anyone remember true MS65's going for $500 back in the 80's?
The good ol' days may be coming back
100% Positive BST transactions