I've sold collections twice. Once it was a beautiful collection of middle date large cents, mostly condition census coins, that went to pay for my first year of college. I regret nothing about selling it ... but still dutifully check every auction catalogue I see to make sure none of my old babies are in it. I've never seen a single one of them back on the market -- a double edged sword, with the obvious fact that others are enjoying them 15 years later on one hand and my inability to buy one back on the other!
The second time, I sold a collection for a down payment on a house. The house went up faster than the coins, and upon selling the house my student loans went down to zero. Again, no regrets at all.
Go buy yourself a beach house ... and start collecting Betts medals. Van will tell you, medals are cooler than those boring old Federal coins anyday!
Whatever you decide, we must jam some blues. I will name drop here and use a cpl heavey hitters as referances..... Rick Snow and Charmy Harker have both seen me play blues.....I want to jam with you one day.
Sounds like you do have a tough choice HRH! Guess a lot depends on if you have other sets or more of your collection that you could enjoy or have for your family someday...If it was me and i was ready to make a major endeavor like that as long as i had other coins to enjoy and have for my children someday i would probably let go the $10 Libs for the house...If that was the last of the Mohegan`s so to speak i personally may pass...Either way it wouldn`t be easy...
HRH, Don't sell that set! Who cares what other people did with their sets, that $10.00 Lib set is fantastic and would be extremely difficult to ever replace at any price. Although it's a pretty good time to buy real estate with prices being depressed in most areas and interest rates at near historic lows, nice houses in CA are a dime a dozen and always available......can you say the same for your $10.00 Lib set?? You didn't see guys like Virgil Brand or Lorin Parmelee or Col. Green or Louis Eliasberg or Joseph Mickley or Josiah Lilly selling thier coins to buy some frilly beach house did you?? I say take advantage of the low rates and get a mortgage and keep the set!
I'm in the same boat you are, I'm contemplating selling my complete PCGS Morgan set. I've worked on it for sometime and it's a great accomplishment. But now it's time to sell with no regrets. I still have other great set's to look at and reminisce and maybe down the road I'll take a new coin challenge. It's never easy to lose or sell a loved one.
eh? they are just coins. do not worry about seller's remorse. it is a normal feeling when letting go of collectibles you enjoy. buy the house you and your wife desire. it is not like you cannot buy another coin again for the rest of your life. And lets face it.. if you have seen 1 $10 coronet lib.. you have seen them all for the most part.
<< <i>You didn't see guys like Virgil Brand or Lorin Parmelee or Col. Green or Louis Eliasberg or Joseph Mickley or Josiah Lilly selling thier coins to buy some frilly beach house did you?? >>
I don't see it that way. Look at QDB, he sells stuff all the time. Everyone makes their mark differently. HRH was at the forefront of PCGS, ain't that enough
I vote sell, and I'd be happy to sell them for you on eBay, Mr. Hall. Think about it, you get your beach house, and with a few percent, I could probably buy a house, too!
<< <i>So here's the dilemma. My wife and I what to buy the second home...big one on the beach, California style, i.e. expensive. I have some money, but I really don't want to go into debt and have a mortagage. I think I want the beach home more than I want the $10 Libs. So I'm thinking of selling the set. >>
David: I have seen this over and over again as a CPA.
Many people make decisions with their emotions before they truly sample what they THINK they want.
Here is what you SHOULD do.
RENT a great beach house for two weeks, even a month or even the ENTIRE SUMMER this year. Try it out. If you really like it, commit to the same rental deal the following year. The reality may be ALL you dream of or maybe NOT?
The cost might only be one medium priced coin in your non $10 Lib set.
The positives include that you get to try it out, live the life you wanted without any of the major maintenance worries or real estate taxes after you go back to work.
The negative include that you are NOT guaranteed the same house every year unless you commit early every year. But there will be OTHER houses.
I have seen too many clients and friends buy the 2nd home, even beach home and lake front homes thinking that this is what they wanted only to find out that it was sorely underutilized and then became a nuisance, not only time wise, but also cost-wise.
Selling your set of $10 Libs is a separate decision. First, you MUST decide if owning versus renting a lovely home is what you want. You may also decide to travel and see the world more while you are young enough. Possibly a few cruises, a few trips to Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand, San Diego, etc? Sample all of these things for at least two years before you settle on buying your 2nd house.
Have you thought about selling your primary home? You know that California treats primary homes much more kindly under Prop 19 real estate tax wise. Your 2nd home will cost you a pretty penny in real estate taxes as it will not be your primary home unless your wife intends to claim it as her primary home.
But you have a little time before buying. The real estate market except in San Diego area is still very weak.
You know what to do but do not let your emotions control you completely.
From my own personal experience, I have found that owning a two week time share right ON the ocean in Maui goes a long way in satisfying my similar desires. It was THREE weeks last December and it was awesome.
Going AGAIN even though it is a 15 hour plane flight on my Lear Jet from the East Coast. (LOL - no Lear Jet!!!) That would go against everything I preach!!
Has anyone added up the entire collection? I started to and got to well over $100k just in the first 10 coins or so. Yiikes! There is an awfull lot of value sitting there doing no one any good accept for maybe bragging rights, which you will still maintain even after selling the collection!
I guess you could wait until you die to enjoy your life and watch from above as your family sells the collection.
HELL YES SELL IT! And while your at it, why not get a new Ferrari?
As others have suggested, rent the beach and consider other locations for the second home. Ever consider Val Kilmer's place in northern NM? Horses are nice and the food is great. Lots of sun, beautiful vistas and the property taxes are laughable. Great summers, outstanding sunsets year round, skiing in the winter .... (no, I'm not trying to unload a specific property).
There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt. –John Adams, 1826
Why not just raise your grading fees and then use the profits to buy your beach house? That way you could still keep your $10 Lib collection.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I don't get it... Isn't David Hall always talking about how the US Dollar is losing it's value? Is it not then prudent to borrow the money for the house and keep the Lib $10's because of the store of value it represents?
<< <i>I don't get it... Isn't David Hall always talking about how the US Dollar is losing it's value? Is it not then prudent to borrow the money for the house and keep the Lib $10's because of the store of value it represents? >>
I call my house a "dollar denominated asset"
Do you really want that much in US dollars (house value)???
Any idea what the real estate taxes would be on that house?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
SELL ! But only if you are sure that you will have the time to spend at the second home. You and I are almost the same age and I am having the same "problem" as you. My Peace Dollar set, ( #2 current finest ) will be auctioned at Central States next month and MY Proof Morgan Set, ( #1 current finest ) will be auctioned at the Summer ANA. It was a difficult decision, but as I see it, we are not getting any younger and Having that Beach House in your case or the prime investment, that will generate income every month for me, outweighs having coins in a bank box. If I were younger or had the resources of a Bob Simpson, there would not be a " problem " . So I say, enjoy life today, because we do not know what the future has in store for us. Besides a genius invented the PCGS Registry so that we can turn on a computer and view our precious sets anytime we want.
Which one of the two would YOU enjoy the most in years to come? Which one of the two would YOUR WIFE enjoy the most in years to come? Which one of the two would YOUR WIFE and YOU enjoy the most in years to come?
I would base my decision on the best two out of three.
@ Elite CNC Routing & Woodworks on Facebook. Check out my work. Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Thanks for the Give-Away opportunity! It's the only way I would get coins like that.
BEST ADVICE RIGHT HERE WITH THE RATIONAL BEHIND IT!!!!! Here's the thing...if you sell the set, there really is no getting it back. That's the truth! You can obviously afford whatever you want so this is what I suggest-
Buy the house and get a mortgage while knowing the approximate value of the coins so that you don't do anything crazy. Happily pay the mortgage etc......then later, if the mortgage is absolutely killing you inside for some strange reason then go ahead and sell the set and pay off the house. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SELL THE SET TO HAVE THE HOUSE AND THE COINS! Do not sell the set first. I think you should get the house and have it for at least 6 months before making any rash decision on the set. You can never go back on that. Think about this...the mortgage rates are at all time lows or darn close to it...nothing to lose!
Advice from a lowly former stock broker with a degree in Finance...
Greg
From a lowly Banker with a degree in Accounting!!!
Especially the part about CHEAP MONEY!!!!
Now is a great time to be a borrower, savers aren't earning anything but peace of mind..... (that is valuable though)!
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
David: Oreville has the right idea. Land rich and cash poor? You will probably not be able to start another set like the one you currently own if you go through with the beach house. I am not a real estate person. Think of all that hard work you did assembling that collection. There's no way I would ever give my coin collection for a piece of real estate. You will be constantly spending $$$ on the property. There's no end to it. Houses are hard work whether or not they are your primary residence. Good luck to you and your wife whatever you decide to do.
I have lived next to water my whole life. I love the beach and the way water relaxes me. Nothing better than watching a sunset from your deck with an adult beverage.
In my experience I have enjoyed my lake/beach homes far more than any coin set I have owned. Sure, I love coins, but it is only a hobby to me.
From an investment perspective, I have always made money on waterfront property. Demand normally exceeds supply. Just don't get caught paying "moon money" for it.
Now if you were talking about a run of the mill ranch somewhere in a canyon, I would say "keep the coins".
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
If you are even thinking about selling than maybe its time to sell. Do you look at your coins everyday? Probably not. You will be looking at the ocean everyday. Which one would give you more pleasure?
I think now is the time to buy real estate in California. Since your collection is complete, and if you are reasonably certain that you will sell your coins at a profit, I would consider selling. Once the dust settles you can start back up with a nice set of Bust and Seated Quarters.
Look at this as a business decision, and try and remove the emotions. Given the historic low cost of mortgage money (I have a 4% right now), do you think your coins will appreciate more than 3 percent a year. You ask why 3 percent, not 4 or 5? You also have to consider the fact that at the moment you can deduct a good portion of the interest from your taxes.
On the other hand, none of us are going to have a complete US coin set, so selling once you build a world class set also frees you for the next adventure. I always say the fun is in the chase as well as owning the set. Many sell after a while as they want to pursue another chase.
I would sell, take have towards the house and leave the rest of the funds for your next great collecting adventure.
Good Luck in your journey and let us know which way you go.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
When the big one hits California, how well will the typical beach house withstand the ensuing tsunami?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
While it was on a much lower scale, I sold part of my collection to put a down payment on my first house, back in the 1980's. I felt really good about it.
Tax wise/ net wise/ timing wise would you be better off selling some CU stock or selling the coins? Which tax hit/gain makes more sense?
I sold company stock once to finance my kids education and to buy a house on the Island. It was a planned sale but I still got ripped on the Yahoo chatboards at the time. The stock took a minor hit and two weeks later it's like it never happened.
If smoeone already covered this I apologize, I only skimmed the thread.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>While it was on a much lower scale, I sold part of my collection to put a down payment on my first house, back in the 1980's. I felt really good about it. >>
Wanting to do it and needing to do it are two different things. It sounds like in his case it is the motivation of NOT wanting to carry a mortgage, esp. for a purchase that seems to be optional. A $2 mil mortgage will whack you close to $80K interest the first year.
I'd be inclined to try it a year or two first to make sure it is what I really wanted.
Well, one thing for sure, if you sell the coins and bought beach front property, your wife will wipe out all the "awe shucks" you've accumulated on her internal black board and you will be able to start out fresh.
Just to emphasize what oreville and others have said- the selling of the coins and the buying of a second home are two completely different decisions. Each decision should stand or fall on it's own merits. Tying the two together in one's mind can lead to sloppy decision-making, confusion, rending of hair, &c.
That said, while I'd go for the beach house in your shoes, I'll be eager to bid for some of your coins...
Id say sell the set, but I am going trough a Oceanography class that talks about all the negatives of owning a beach front property. But with that said, there is nothing wrong with enjoying the fruits of your labor, makes more sense to me than dying and leaving it to ungrateful kids that will sell them for nothing...
Out curiosity, what would a set like this one cost?
Comments
I've sold collections twice. Once it was a beautiful collection of middle date large cents, mostly condition census coins, that went to pay for my first year of college. I regret nothing about selling it ... but still dutifully check every auction catalogue I see to make sure none of my old babies are in it. I've never seen a single one of them back on the market -- a double edged sword, with the obvious fact that others are enjoying them 15 years later on one hand and my inability to buy one back on the other!
The second time, I sold a collection for a down payment on a house. The house went up faster than the coins, and upon selling the house my student loans went down to zero. Again, no regrets at all.
Go buy yourself a beach house ... and start collecting Betts medals. Van will tell you, medals are cooler than those boring old Federal coins anyday!
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Rick Snow and Charmy Harker have both seen me play blues.....I want to jam with you one day.
Haven't read the whole thread, maybe someone already said it:
Mortgages are DIRT cheap these days. Take one out and postpone selling the coins until
you really need to or really want to.
My $.02.
All the best AB
WS
But now it's time to sell with no regrets. I still have other great set's to look at and reminisce and maybe down the road I'll take a new coin challenge.
It's never easy to lose or sell a loved one.
Death and Taxes" ~~ Ben Franklin
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/mint-sets/1945-mint-set/publishedset/21067
Knutson's 45' Set 2009 Winner
i really think we are in a double dip in RE
however, if it's your dream and you can,
and you find the perfect place, do it
i'll look for the collection on the BST
when letting go of collectibles you enjoy. buy the house you and your wife desire.
it is not like you cannot buy another coin again for the rest of your life. And lets
face it.. if you have seen 1 $10 coronet lib.. you have seen them all for the most part.
<< <i>You didn't see guys like Virgil Brand or Lorin Parmelee or Col. Green or Louis Eliasberg or Joseph Mickley or Josiah Lilly selling thier coins to buy some frilly beach house did you?? >>
I don't see it that way. Look at QDB, he sells stuff all the time. Everyone makes their mark differently. HRH was at the forefront of PCGS, ain't that enough
<< <i>So here's the dilemma. My wife and I what to buy the second home...big one on the beach, California style, i.e. expensive. I have some money, but I really don't want to go into debt and have a mortagage. I think I want the beach home more than I want the $10 Libs. So I'm thinking of selling the set. >>
David: I have seen this over and over again as a CPA.
Many people make decisions with their emotions before they truly sample what they THINK they want.
Here is what you SHOULD do.
RENT a great beach house for two weeks, even a month or even the ENTIRE SUMMER this year. Try it out. If you really like it, commit to the same rental deal the following year. The reality may be ALL you dream of or maybe NOT?
The cost might only be one medium priced coin in your non $10 Lib set.
The positives include that you get to try it out, live the life you wanted without any of the major maintenance worries or real estate taxes after you go back to work.
The negative include that you are NOT guaranteed the same house every year unless you commit early every year. But there will be OTHER houses.
I have seen too many clients and friends buy the 2nd home, even beach home and lake front homes thinking that this is what they wanted only to find out that it was sorely underutilized and then became a nuisance, not only time wise, but also cost-wise.
Selling your set of $10 Libs is a separate decision. First, you MUST decide if owning versus renting a lovely home is what you want. You may also decide to travel and see the world more while you are young enough. Possibly a few cruises, a few trips to Alaska, Hawaii, Australia, New Zealand, San Diego, etc? Sample all of these things for at least two years before you settle on buying your 2nd house.
Have you thought about selling your primary home? You know that California treats primary homes much more kindly under Prop 19 real estate tax wise. Your 2nd home will cost you a pretty penny in real estate taxes as it will not be your primary home unless your wife intends to claim it as her primary home.
But you have a little time before buying. The real estate market except in San Diego area is still very weak.
You know what to do but do not let your emotions control you completely.
From my own personal experience, I have found that owning a two week time share right ON the ocean in Maui goes a long way in satisfying my similar desires. It was THREE weeks last December and it was awesome.
Going AGAIN even though it is a 15 hour plane flight on my Lear Jet from the East Coast. (LOL - no Lear Jet!!!) That would go against everything I preach!!
rent the house
<< <i>keep the coins
rent the house >>
I agree ...
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
I guess you could wait until you die to enjoy your life and watch from above as your family sells the collection.
HELL YES SELL IT! And while your at it, why not get a new Ferrari?
–John Adams, 1826
I knew it would happen.
1)Sell your collection.
2)Sell your current home.
3)Move into Van Simmons basement and commence fortification.
The end is near, your USDollars will soon be worthless and a beach house will be problematic to defend.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I don't get it... Isn't David Hall always talking about how the US Dollar is losing it's value? Is it not then prudent to borrow the money for the house and keep the Lib $10's because of the store of value it represents? >>
I call my house a "dollar denominated asset"
Do you really want that much in US dollars (house value)???
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It was a difficult decision, but as I see it, we are not getting any younger and Having that Beach House in your case or the prime investment, that will generate income every month for me, outweighs having coins in a bank box.
If I were younger or had the resources of a Bob Simpson, there would not be a " problem " .
So I say, enjoy life today, because we do not know what the future has in store for us.
Besides a genius invented the PCGS Registry so that we can turn on a computer and view our precious sets anytime we want.
Coins vs. Beach House
Which one of the two would YOU enjoy the most in years to come?
Which one of the two would YOUR WIFE enjoy the most in years to come?
Which one of the two would YOUR WIFE and YOU enjoy the most in years to come?
I would base my decision on the best two out of three.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Thanks for the Give-Away opportunity!
BEST ADVICE RIGHT HERE WITH THE RATIONAL BEHIND IT!!!!!
Here's the thing...if you sell the set, there really is no getting it back. That's the truth! You can obviously afford whatever you want so this is what I suggest-
Buy the house and get a mortgage while knowing the approximate value of the coins so that you don't do anything crazy. Happily pay the mortgage etc......then later, if the mortgage is absolutely killing you inside for some strange reason then go ahead and sell the set and pay off the house. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SELL THE SET TO HAVE THE HOUSE AND THE COINS! Do not sell the set first. I think you should get the house and have it for at least 6 months before making any rash decision on the set. You can never go back on that. Think about this...the mortgage rates are at all time lows or darn close to it...nothing to lose!
Advice from a lowly former stock broker with a degree in Finance...
Greg
From a lowly Banker with a degree in Accounting!!!
Especially the part about CHEAP MONEY!!!!
Now is a great time to be a borrower, savers aren't earning anything but peace of mind..... (that is valuable though)!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
Oreville has the right idea.
Land rich and cash poor?
You will probably not be able to start another set like the one you currently own if you go through with the beach house.
I am not a real estate person.
Think of all that hard work you did assembling that collection.
There's no way I would ever give my coin collection for a piece of real estate.
You will be constantly spending $$$ on the property.
There's no end to it.
Houses are hard work whether or not they are your primary residence.
Good luck to you and your wife whatever you decide to do.
TOM
In my experience I have enjoyed my lake/beach homes far more than any coin set I have owned. Sure, I love coins, but it is only a hobby to me.
From an investment perspective, I have always made money on waterfront property. Demand normally exceeds supply. Just don't get caught paying "moon money" for it.
Now if you were talking about a run of the mill ranch somewhere in a canyon, I would say "keep the coins".
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>Any idea what the real estate taxes would be on that house?
More than they will be on the coins, tho taxes are due whether you own outright or have a mortgage.
Box of 20
Look at this as a business decision, and try and remove the emotions. Given the historic low cost of mortgage money (I have a 4% right now), do you think your coins will appreciate more than 3 percent a year. You ask why 3 percent, not 4 or 5? You also have to consider the fact that at the moment you can deduct a good portion of the interest from your taxes.
On the other hand, none of us are going to have a complete US coin set, so selling once you build a world class set also frees you for the next adventure. I always say the fun is in the chase as well as owning the set. Many sell after a while as they want to pursue another chase.
I would sell, take have towards the house and leave the rest of the funds for your next great collecting adventure.
Good Luck in your journey and let us know which way you go.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
on my first house, back in the 1980's. I felt really good about it.
I sold company stock once to finance my kids education and to buy a house on the Island. It was a planned sale but I still got ripped on the Yahoo chatboards at the time. The stock took a minor hit and two weeks later it's like it never happened.
If smoeone already covered this I apologize, I only skimmed the thread.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Keep the 800 pound Gorilla in the set and send the rest to Heritage. Then you can sit on the beach with that coin in your pocket.
I would hope this seller wouldn't have to resort to Heritage.
<< <i>While it was on a much lower scale, I sold part of my collection to put a down payment
on my first house, back in the 1980's. I felt really good about it. >>
Wanting to do it and needing to do it are two different things. It sounds like in his case it is the motivation of NOT wanting to carry a mortgage, esp. for a purchase that seems to be optional. A $2 mil mortgage will whack you close to $80K interest the first year.
I'd be inclined to try it a year or two first to make sure it is what I really wanted.
<< <i>I'm sure someone already posted this, but should this thread be in the buy, sell, trade forum? >>
I just checked the posting rules -- looks like this one is grandfathered in.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
That said, while I'd go for the beach house in your shoes, I'll be eager to bid for some of your coins...
Out curiosity, what would a set like this one cost?