Larissa's submission was graded today...
llafoe
Posts: 7,220 ✭✭
No downgrades, no pluses... not a surprise; out of 65,000 coins graded in Larissa's and Larsen's sets (they only own 40 of the 65,000 coins) 
there have only be 5 pluses awarded (only one at the 67 level, none higher). We sent in their coins more to make them visually compatible... there were different labels, State's labels, etc. It looked like a mix-matched set. We also wanted them photographed so we could add the images to their Registry sets. I wanted to use Todd, but since we were sending them in for Secure Plus, I thought it'd be easier (and better) to photograph them outside the slab. We are VERY disappointed in the TrueView quality. I wish we could have selected if we wanted the TrueViews to emphasis the toning or the luster... we would have chosen the luster since none have any toning. I expect it's an assembly line process... camera and lighting are setup in a fixed position; place coin, snap, remove coin... repeat. Regretfully, we're stuck with the SecurePlus and TrueViews for the remainder of their collections to have a visually appealing collection; that's not distracted by differing plastic.
I wish PCGS would standardize their grading (stop adding +'s, PLs, DMPLs, First Strikes, pictorial labels, signed labels, generic labels, etc.). It's increasing harder to be loyal to someone that can't be loyal to themselves!
there have only be 5 pluses awarded (only one at the 67 level, none higher). We sent in their coins more to make them visually compatible... there were different labels, State's labels, etc. It looked like a mix-matched set. We also wanted them photographed so we could add the images to their Registry sets. I wanted to use Todd, but since we were sending them in for Secure Plus, I thought it'd be easier (and better) to photograph them outside the slab. We are VERY disappointed in the TrueView quality. I wish we could have selected if we wanted the TrueViews to emphasis the toning or the luster... we would have chosen the luster since none have any toning. I expect it's an assembly line process... camera and lighting are setup in a fixed position; place coin, snap, remove coin... repeat. Regretfully, we're stuck with the SecurePlus and TrueViews for the remainder of their collections to have a visually appealing collection; that's not distracted by differing plastic.I wish PCGS would standardize their grading (stop adding +'s, PLs, DMPLs, First Strikes, pictorial labels, signed labels, generic labels, etc.). It's increasing harder to be loyal to someone that can't be loyal to themselves!
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<< <i>Hi Larry, you graded 65,000 coins? >>
No, the total population of the 40 coins in their collections is 65,000. Out of the 65,000 coins in the pop report, only 5 have a "+".
1- There's no way that TrueView is an assembly line. You just can't get a good photo that way, period. If you look across the board, every photographer has his own style, and the photos reflect that (note that few deep cameo TrueViews show black fields; most show the coin fully lit). With most, though, you can likely put in a request and they'll photograph however you want it; I'm not sure about TrueView. For instance, I shot a piece yesterday and brought out what appealed to me, but it wasn't what the owner wanted to see. So tonight, back to the camera it goes.
2- You struck my pet peeve, so sorry. Who cares about the label? Either you bought the coin or you bought the plastic. The only coins I've reholdered have been because the slabs were badly scuffed. If you want a PCGS coin, then you can get the PCGS coin. After that, why keep throwing money at them, when nothing that isn't completely superficial is going to change?
<< <i>2- You struck my pet peeve, so sorry. Who cares about the label? Either you bought the coin or you bought the plastic. The only coins I've reholdered have been because the slabs were badly scuffed. If you want a PCGS coin, then you can get the PCGS coin. After that, why keep throwing money at them, when nothing that isn't completely superficial is going to change? >>
Valid point for you and I... but these are collections owned by a 10-year-old and an 11-year-old. Sometimes you educate and other times you support... sometimes you can do both; other times you have to make a choice. At this point, support trumps education... hopefully they become educated as they're being supported.
I would add... my daughter is leaning toward raw at this point and my son is leaning toward older coins.
<< <i>we would have chosen the luster since none have any toning. >>
I'm no photog, but the common take on this board is that luster is hard to capture in a photo.
<< <i>
<< <i>we would have chosen the luster since none have any toning. >>
I'm no photog, but the common take on this board is that luster is hard to capture in a photo. >>
Then they could have added a little luster animation...
<< <i>I wish PCGS would standardize their grading (stop adding +'s, PLs, DMPLs, First Strikes, pictorial labels, signed labels, generic labels, etc.). It's increasing harder to be loyal to someone that can't be loyal to themselves!
we can argue the + and first strike to death.
otherwise a PL or DMPL coin is just that and I think it is reasonable to have the designation on the label.
the "art labels" as I'll call them wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for slab counterfeiters. Everytime I see a new label I have to find out first if PCGS produced such a label and find out what a real one looks like. Of course one could first check the coin to see if it is counterfeit. I thought of that, but I'm afraid someone is going to holder some real coin and give themselves an upgrade in a fake slab with a fake label, and some of the fake label detection methods may fail on "art labels." Similarly there are the shaved obverse paired with a shaved reverse coins to make a semi-key or key in a fake holder and label, too. Although, I guess, the chances of all this happening are slim. Still, who knows, they counterfeit everything and will try all kinds of crap. One must always be vigilant. And the presence of a wide and unknow variety "art labels" makes being vigilant harder.
loyal to the themselves and the hobby? well, it's the coin that counts. I don't mind the "art labels" otherwise.
And giving PL and DMPL seems to be more loyal to the hobby than not giving them.
I graded that lone MS67+ state quarter. Of course, I was hoping for an MS68 on it... it was the nicest example I had from a near 5 year exhaustive search. Most folks just do not appreciate the effort required to locate premium quality MS67 or MS68 business strike quarters from 1999 (and earlier year clad pieces for that matter). Ditto for Kennedys, etc.
Wondercoin
<< <i>
<< <i>I wish PCGS would standardize their grading (stop adding +'s, PLs, DMPLs, First Strikes, pictorial labels, signed labels, generic labels, etc.). It's increasing harder to be loyal to someone that can't be loyal to themselves!
we can argue the + and first strike to death.
otherwise a PL or DMPL coin is just that and I think it is reasonable to have the designation on the label.
the "art labels" as I'll call them wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for slab counterfeiters. Everytime I see a new label I have to find out first if PCGS produced such a label and find out what a real one looks like. Of course one could first check the coin to see if it is counterfeit. I thought of that, but I'm afraid someone is going to holder some real coin and give themselves an upgrade in a fake slab with a fake label, and some of the fake label detection methods may fail on "art labels." Similarly there are the shaved obverse paired with a shaved reverse coins to make a semi-key or key in a fake holder and label, too. Although, I guess, the chances of all this happening are slim. Still, who knows, they counterfeit everything and will try all kinds of crap. One must always be vigilant. And the presence of a wide and unknow variety "art labels" makes being vigilant harder.
loyal to the themselves and the hobby? well, it's the coin that counts. I don't mind the "art labels" otherwise.
And giving PL and DMPL seems to be more loyal to the hobby than not giving them. >>
Here's my opinion (I'll pause while the readers roll their eyes)
I remember when PCGS first started slabbing coins... I was pleased! I knew how to grade, but I didn't know how to tell when/how a coin was doctored. I believed and fell for the "sight-unseen" market for slabbed coins. PCGS modified their slabs to make them more secure... good move. A slab was to provide security (prevent further damage to a coin) and a grade opinion. In 1991, I bought Rick Tomaska's book and fell for DCAM proofs. I left the military, got married, had a family, got divorced and then started collecting coins with my children. I can understand marketing... I can understand progress... but if you have a good idea (a secure holder with a consistent grade) why cloud that good idea with a large menu? If PCGS slabbed coins with the same label from day one in the same slab, they would have been golden! The slabs needed impovement... the labels may have needed a better hologram... good, make MINOR changes, but leave your foundation alone.
If PCGS were privately owned, they could be more true to their clients. A single slab - a single label... equals a more realistic "sight-unseen" market. A "First-Strike" is umprovable... a signed label is a gimmick... a pictorial label is really a gimmick... toning, PL, DMPL, CAM and DCAM are all subjective... RB, RD, FS, FB, FH, FBL, etc. are a moving target... the difference between MS67 and MS68 is subjective and unrealistic... the difference between MS67, MS67+ and MS68 are twice as subjective and twice as unrealistic... Would you purchase a First Strike (25% premium) toned (50% premium) designator (500% premium) DMPL (50% premium) "+" (30% premium) coin sight-unseen?
for appreciation IMHO.
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HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
<< <i>Why not just say "screw-it" & place these wonderful coins in Capital Plastics holders?
HH >>
Aren't they made in China?
<< <i>Regretfully, we're stuck with the SecurePlus and TrueViews for the remainder of their collections to have a visually appealing collection >>
No you're not.
I think you can get every coin reholdered by PCGS and request no plus, DMPL or other extra designations.
Even if that's not the case, you can certainly send your coins to Todd (blu62vette) or Mark Goodman (mgoodm3) for better pictures.
The extra money you would spend to do this would be to enhance your children's enjoyment of the coins...I think that would be money well spent.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why not just say "screw-it" & place these wonderful coins in Capital Plastics holders?
HH >>
Aren't they made in China?
Actually I can't understand the facination with these new fangled coin holders . . . and . . . grading by numbers.
I think we need to all go back to Brown & Dunn grading . . . Fair, good, very good, . . . AU, BU, what was wrong with that system ? ! ? !
HH
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
.
CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>Did I miss something?.............where are the images
You know, Ms. Always Right... they'll be here between 7:30-8:00 PST. Nothing special to the forum, but they mean a lot to my daughter.
<< <i>
<< <i>Did I miss something?.............where are the images
You know, Ms. Always Right... they'll be here between 7:30-8:00 PST. Nothing special to the forum, but they mean a lot to my daughter. >>
Ya, but knowing where you are I have changed to 8:15pm
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CoinsAreFun Toned Silver Eagle Proof Album
.
Gallery Mint Museum, Ron Landis& Joe Rust, The beginnings of the Golden Dollar
.
More CoinsAreFun Pictorials NGC
<< <i>A few comments:
1- There's no way that TrueView is an assembly line. You just can't get a good photo that way, period. If you look across the board, every photographer has his own style, and the photos reflect that (note that few deep cameo TrueViews show black fields; most show the coin fully lit). With most, though, you can likely put in a request and they'll photograph however you want it; I'm not sure about TrueView. For instance, I shot a piece yesterday and brought out what appealed to me, but it wasn't what the owner wanted to see. So tonight, back to the camera it goes.
2- You struck my pet peeve, so sorry. Who cares about the label? Either you bought the coin or you bought the plastic. The only coins I've reholdered have been because the slabs were badly scuffed. If you want a PCGS coin, then you can get the PCGS coin. After that, why keep throwing money at them, when nothing that isn't completely superficial is going to change? >>
YOU ROCK BRO!
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>
<< <i>Why not just say "screw-it" & place these wonderful coins in Capital Plastics holders?
HH >>
Aren't they made in China?
Use the Coin World plastic holders. They're made in Blacklick, OH.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
<< <i>No, the total population of the 40 coins in their collections is 65,000. Out of the 65,000 coins in the pop report, only 5 have a "+".
I graded that lone MS67+ state quarter. Of course, I was hoping for an MS68 on it... it was the nicest example I had from a near 5 year exhaustive search. Most folks just do not appreciate the effort required to locate premium quality MS67 or MS68 business strike quarters from 1999 (and earlier year clad pieces for that matter). Ditto for Kennedys, etc.
Wondercoin >>
I dont get this statement, its either a 67 or a 68, that wee bit cheese of a difference should not even exist
oh and Hi Mitchell, hope all is well with you and yours
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>Valid point for you and I... but these are collections owned by a 10-year-old and an 11-year-old. Sometimes you educate and other times you support... sometimes you can do both; other times you have to make a choice. At this point, support trumps education... hopefully they become educated as they're being supported. >>
I'm not a parent, but I don't understand your point. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that your options in this case are:
A- Support your child's desire to slab/reholder the coins
B- Educate on why that may not be a good idea
I don't want to question anyone's parenting strategy, but this just doesn't make sense to me as the best approach. My parents couldn't care less about coins, and provided no financial support to my collection (I have two coins from them as gifts). The first lesson I learned is that when money is a factor, you really need to know what you're doing. The best outcome from that was my learning to really value decisions I make. It made me a picky collector, and it helped me appreciate everything that I have in my collection, since I worked hard to get it.
Even though they aren't collectors, they still followed what I was doing to make sure I wasn't throwing my money away. The questioned what I did even if they didn't quite understand, just to make sure I did. There were certainly times when they let me do things (and paid for them) outside of coins where the finances per se didn't add up, but those were usually education endeavors. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think there's much of a lesson in pumping money into grading like this. Of course, I also don't think it's a good idea even for adults with much more experience...
<< <i>
<< <i>Valid point for you and I... but these are collections owned by a 10-year-old and an 11-year-old. Sometimes you educate and other times you support... sometimes you can do both; other times you have to make a choice. At this point, support trumps education... hopefully they become educated as they're being supported. >>
I'm not a parent, but I don't understand your point. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that your options in this case are:
A- Support your child's desire to slab/reholder the coins
B- Educate on why that may not be a good idea
I don't want to question anyone's parenting strategy, but this just doesn't make sense to me as the best approach. My parents couldn't care less about coins, and provided no financial support to my collection (I have two coins from them as gifts). The first lesson I learned is that when money is a factor, you really need to know what you're doing. The best outcome from that was my learning to really value decisions I make. It made me a picky collector, and it helped me appreciate everything that I have in my collection, since I worked hard to get it.
Even though they aren't collectors, they still followed what I was doing to make sure I wasn't throwing my money away. The questioned what I did even if they didn't quite understand, just to make sure I did. There were certainly times when they let me do things (and paid for them) outside of coins where the finances per se didn't add up, but those were usually education endeavors. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think there's much of a lesson in pumping money into grading like this. Of course, I also don't think it's a good idea even for adults with much more experience... >>
Our lives are different... I spend 75% of my life fighting wars, and the other 25% fighting for shared custody of my children. You were lucky; your mother and father stayed together. My children don't have that luxury. My decisions will be significantly different than your fathers decisions were when you were 10 or 11. I get to see my children once a week... for 2 hours. I have to go to court each time I go to war to be able to call and e-mail my children, otherwise my ex-wife doesn't allow them to contact me.