Acetone with denatonium? Is it safe?
coin22lover
Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭
Those are the ingredients on the back.. and it's a nail polish remover. Would it be safe to use on a coin? I would hate to have to go buy something else when all I need to use it on is one coin.
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<< <i>Actually denatured alcohol is ethanol aka ethyl alcohol and is not methanol. Methanol aka wood alcohol is commonly used to denature ethanol. >>
I had to read that several times.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Actually denatured alcohol is ethanol aka ethyl alcohol and is not methanol. Methanol aka wood alcohol is commonly used to denature ethanol. >>
I had to read that several times.
Sorry.
How about this.
Denatured alcohol is not wood alcohol, it is ethanol.
Wood alcohol is methanol.
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<< <i>Denatured alcohol (wood alcohol) can be just as effective a solvent as acetone, and it is much less expensive and less volatile than acetone. >>
I disagree that DA (Ethyl alcohol with a denaturing ingredient, usually Methanol) is ever as effective as Acetone.
Maybe the board chemists can chime in with the molecular "why", but my experience is that Acetone is much more active in removing organic contaminents, and used correctly leaves no residue.
I would never use anything but pure Acetone - I prefer the following sequence in "cleaning" coins which qualify:
Oil soak, or with fugly toning, a quick Thio dip
Acetone rinse
distilled water rinse
Fresh Acetone rinse
Keep in mind that Acetone can turn Copper pink with prolonged exposure; I have used Koinsolve on Copper without negative results.
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<< <i>So straighten me out Baj - what is it I'm consuming right now? >>
If you don't want to go blind, your Martini will be Ethanol
Shaken, not stirred
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Actually denatured alcohol is ethanol aka ethyl alcohol and is not methanol. Methanol aka wood alcohol is commonly used to denature ethanol. >>
I had to read that several times.
Sorry.
How about this.
Denatured alcohol is not wood alcohol, it is ethanol.
Wood alcohol is methanol. >>
I think I will study my grain alcohol and revisit this thread on the morrow.
<< <i>
<< <i>So straighten me out Baj - what is it I'm consuming right now? >>
If you don't want to go blind, your Martini will be Ethanol
Shaken, not stirred
I'm already blinded by ego.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
<< <i>Listen to ricko---he's an expert on dipping coins.
RickO doesn't dip coins in acetone... he stores his coins in acetone!
<< <i>So straighten me out Baj - what is it I'm consuming right now? >>
The consumable version is ethanol/ethyl alcohol.
I do not believe that they ever add wood alcohol to denature ethanol.This form of alcohol breaks
down into co2 and water although an excess will cause acidosis and severe dizziness, nausea and if taken
to excess even unto death from severe alcohol intoxication. In the Laboratory, any alcohol is considered a
protoplasmic poisen and certainly does not do brain cells a faver.
Methanol (wood alcohol) will indeed make you drunk, however it breaks down in the body
into formaldehyde and formic acid which attack the optic nerve and unless treated rapidly.
will lead to death.
Isopropyl rubbing alcohol, is twice as potent as Ethyl and thus intoxication is much more dangerous and lethal.
It is also denatured to make it undrinkable.
Camelot
<< <i>Denatured Ethanol is mixed with a bitter substance that will cause severe stomach disturbances.
I do not believe that they ever add wood alcohol to denature ethanol.This form of alcohol breaks
down into co2 and water although an excess will cause acidosis and severe dizziness, nausea and if taken
to excess even unto death from severe alcohol intoxication. In the Laboratory, any alcohol is considered a
protoplasmic poisen and certainly does not do brain cells a faver.
Methanol (wood alcohol) will indeed make you drunk, however it breaks down in the body
into formaldehyde and formic acid which attack the optic nerve and unless treated rapidly.
will lead to death.
Isopropyl rubbing alcohol, is twice as potent as Ethyl and thus intoxication is much more dangerous and lethal.
It is also denatured to make it undrinkable. >>
There is a plethora of formulas approved for making denatured ethanol. If you are close to a decent library try to grab a copy of the Merck Index and have a looksee. Methanol or isopropyl alcohol are used where the denaturant would interfere with the chemical properties of the ethanol when used in chemical reactions or processes. I have never heard of rubbing/isopropyl alcohol being denatured for any reason.
Methanol: CH3-OH
Ethanol: CH3-CH2-OH
....................................................OH
.....................................................l
Isopropyl alcohol (IPA): CH3-CH-CH3
...........................O
...........................ll
Acetone: CH3-C-CH3
The dots are there to get the bonds to line up properly, just ignore the dots
Acetone is less polar so will dissolve organic materials better. Water is more polar.
Order of polarities: Most polar - Water - Alcohols - Acetone - Petrol, turpentine, oil etc - Least Polar
'Like dissolves like' is the rule so water dissolves more polar things, such as salt, turpentine dissolves less polar things such as oil etc.
Edited to get the bonds to line up
<< <i>Those are the ingredients on the back.. and it's a nail polish remover. Would it be safe to use on a coin? I would hate to have to go buy something else when all I need to use it on is one coin. >>
I have always used plain nail polish remover with no problems. Denatonium is used in quantities of about 10 parts per million. You can use it safely on coins, as 5000 parts per million of unknown chemicals are permitted in "pure" acetone. (100% pure is REALLY just greater than 99.5%) Avoid nail polish removers that have "conditioners" in them, however.
Study the coin, not the forum.
wake up and smell the coffee.
<< <i>I disagree that DA (Ethyl alcohol with a denaturing ingredient, usually Methanol) is ever as effective as Acetone.
Maybe the board chemists can chime in with the molecular "why", but my experience is that Acetone is much more active in removing organic contaminents, and used correctly leaves no residue. >>
I agree with your disagreement.
Acetone is a much better organic solvent than alcohol. It has both polar and non-polar properties.
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Interesting discussion... I just went to Ace Hardware store & got some acetone...
A few Questions regarding using it on coins... I have a bunch of coins (mostly pennies) given to me & many of them have the
look that they were stored in a damp/wet place such as a garage or damp basement... most of them have the bluish-green
color on them which means to me that they got wet... they also have heavy film on them... the luster is gone... The main thing
I want to do is get them cleaned up then put them in rolls to turn them in to the bank... I also wanted to check for vareities
such as the Wide & Close AM's, etc ...
Even if I don't find anything I just want to make sure no one else has to open the rolls & have the bad coins... especially pennys.
Does it matter how long you soak coins in Acetone? Can Acetone hurt any metals such as zinc, copper, silver, etc...
Thanks for any replies...
shasta7
<< <i>Hi everybody...
Interesting discussion... I just went to Ace Hardware store & got some acetone...
A few Questions regarding using it on coins... I have a bunch of coins (mostly pennies) given to me & many of them have the
look that they were stored in a damp/wet place such as a garage or damp basement... most of them have the bluish-green
color on them which means to me that they got wet... they also have heavy film on them... the luster is gone... The main thing
I want to do is get them cleaned up then put them in rolls to turn them in to the bank... I also wanted to check for vareities
such as the Wide & Close AM's, etc ...
Even if I don't find anything I just want to make sure no one else has to open the rolls & have the bad coins... especially pennys.
Does it matter how long you soak coins in Acetone? Can Acetone hurt any metals such as zinc, copper, silver, etc...
Thanks for any replies...
>>
Be careful leaving aluminum or zinc in anything for protracted periods. I don't think denatured
alcohol, isopropyl, or acetone actually causes the problem but water contamination. If you use
isopropyl be sure to get the 91% and don't soak the reactive metals over 24 hours.
<< <i>Hi everybody...
Interesting discussion... I just went to Ace Hardware store & got some acetone...
A few Questions regarding using it on coins... I have a bunch of coins (mostly pennies) given to me & many of them have the
look that they were stored in a damp/wet place such as a garage or damp basement... most of them have the bluish-green
color on them which means to me that they got wet... they also have heavy film on them... the luster is gone... The main thing
I want to do is get them cleaned up then put them in rolls to turn them in to the bank... I also wanted to check for vareities
such as the Wide & Close AM's, etc ...
Even if I don't find anything I just want to make sure no one else has to open the rolls & have the bad coins... especially pennys.
Does it matter how long you soak coins in Acetone? Can Acetone hurt any metals such as zinc, copper, silver, etc...
Thanks for any replies...
shasta7 >>
Looks like what you have is junk copper, so a few minutes should be enough to rinse/wash them. Try one first to make sure that the acetone doesn't discolor them. If it does, use rubbing alcohol.
CladKing (I will be careful not to leave it in long)
BAJ... Yes you are right, the main thing is to get the dirt & film off so to roll them & take them to the bank so
there is no need to let them soak too long...
Thank you all for your help & comments... :-)
shasta7
Is that one of the transuranic elements?
<" have always used plain nail polish remover with no problems. Denatonium is used in quantities of about 10 parts per million. You can use it safely on coins, as 5000 parts per million of unknown chemicals are permitted in "pure" acetone. (100% pure is REALLY just greater than 99.5%) Avoid nail polish removers that have "conditioners" in them, however. "> Quote from Frankscoins
I too have no problems using nail polish remover, with observing Franks caveats.
Krueger
<< <i>Denatonium
Is that one of the transuranic elements? >>
Yer thinking of Denaturatonium.
<< <i>Thanks guys...
CladKing (I will be careful not to leave it in long)
BAJ... Yes you are right, the main thing is to get the dirt & film off so to roll them & take them to the bank so
there is no need to let them soak too long...
Thank you all for your help & comments... :-)
shasta7 >>
Also depending on how much spent solvent you end up with, disposing of isopropyl alcohol is easier and safer than disposing of acetone, esp. if you have PVC plumbing.