Problem with paypal e-check

CaptHenway · March 24, 2011 6:20AM

Posted on my old dealer-to-dealer network:

"WARNING WARNIING WARNING E-BAY SELLERS E-BAY SELLERS
Creativity Solutions
P.O. BOX 15528, 265 Port Union Rd $3,240.95 AGE SET
Westhill, ON M1C 4Z7
Canada

IS WRITING BAD CHECKS: NEW HITCH, PAID WITH PAYPAL E-CHECK THEN 4 WEEKS
LATER, THE CHECK IS RETURNED TO PAYPAL WHO STEALS THE FUNDS FROM YOUR ACCOUNT

NEW TWIST ON BAD CHECKS!!!!! PLEASE WARN YOUR FRIENDS!!!!"

Don't know if this person has been posted here already.

JamesMurray · March 24, 2011 6:31AM

I don't think a seller can opt out of taking an echeck though. I'd love to be wrong because it's annoying to be paid that way.

revoldlog · March 24, 2011 6:39AM

Will seller protection from paypal protect you from the bounced check?

OPA · March 24, 2011 6:47AM

<< Will seller protection from paypal protect you from the bounced check? >>

Yes, but only if you complied with eBay & PayPal guidelines.

hhmag70 · March 24, 2011 8:16AM

Strange, since it is all electronic I thought that the couple of day delay was confirming that the funds were there to cover the purchase.

JamesMurray · March 24, 2011 8:22AM

Usually 7 days max from my own experiences.

MsMorrisine · March 24, 2011 8:35AM

it's odd that PayPal would issue an echeck and then have it returned to them.

I guess one way that could happen is if the account is backed with a bad credit card or stolen funds.

I'd have thought that PP wouldn't issue a echeck it knows isn't good. So, I'm wondering why it was returned.

And I'm with the others on the seller protection. I'm surprised this isn't one that PP has to eat. more puzzlement...

PinkFloyd · March 24, 2011 9:05AM

<< 

I'd have thought that PP wouldn't issue a echeck it knows isn't good. So, I'm wondering why it was returned.
>>

Likewise. I've always assumed that wait period was part of making sure the check was good. I'm befuddled.

derryb · March 24, 2011 9:37AM

an echeck is an electronic transfer of funds from thier bank to yours. Once in your account it can't be "returned." Only way for seller to get money back is to claim he didn't authorized the transfer. If that happens you are protected by seller protection. Been there.

OP is probably referencing a non-ebay payment where there was no paypal seller protection.

Golden rule: Before you ship anything based on a paypal payment make sure you have these two important pieces of info on your paypal payment details page - "OK TO SHIP" and "SELLER PROTECTION: ELIGIBLE."

storm888 · March 24, 2011 10:22AM

<< OP is probably referencing a non-ebay payment where there was no paypal seller protection. >>

///////////////

ALL purchases of tangible items from ANY online venue
are now covered by PayPal "Purchase Protection."

That includes BST transactions, and items invoiced as a
payment for merchandise via email.

"Gift" payments are NOT covered by "Purchase Protection."

OPA · March 24, 2011 11:01AM

<< 

<< OP is probably referencing a non-ebay payment where there was no paypal seller protection. >>

///////////////

ALL purchases of tangible items from ANY online venue
are now covered by PayPal "Purchase Protection."

That includes BST transactions, and items invoiced as a
payment for merchandise via email.

"Gift" payments are NOT covered by "Purchase Protection." >>

True...but we are talking about "SELLER protection," which is a completely different animal.

cosmicblunder · March 24, 2011 11:04AM

I don't get how the echeck can be returned to Paypal as NSF. I thought Paypal held the echeck until it was confirmed the funds from the buyers bank account were good, therefore the echeck would be authenticated and the funds transfered.

derryb · March 24, 2011 11:34AM

<< 

<< OP is probably referencing a non-ebay payment where there was no paypal seller protection. >>

///////////////

ALL purchases of tangible items from ANY online venue
are now covered by PayPal "Purchase Protection."

That includes BST transactions, and items invoiced as a
payment for merchandise via email.

"Gift" payments are NOT covered by "Purchase Protection." >>

Wrong, Paypal's exact words on buyer protection: "When you pay with PayPal on any website PayPal Purchase Protection covers you if you have a problem." And, unless it is specifically an ebay purchase they only agree to "help you to get a full refund."

This means you have to pay with paypal on the website where you are buying. This does not apply to sending a paypal payment for a deal struck on the BST, craigslist or any other on-line site that does not actually process the paypal payment from that website. Paypal has customer satisfaction control over merchants they allow to accept on-line paypal payments. Paypal has no control over the chick you met on craigslist and will not refund any money you sent her via paypal.

piecesofme · March 24, 2011 1:21PM

I don't think a seller can opt out of taking an echeck though. I'd love to be wrong because it's annoying to be paid that way

Just refund it and tell the buyer nicely that those aren't accepted. Done it a few times...confident it can be done.

storm888 · March 24, 2011 2:11PM

<< 

<< 

<< OP is probably referencing a non-ebay payment where there was no paypal seller protection. >>

///////////////

ALL purchases of tangible items from ANY online venue
are now covered by PayPal "Purchase Protection."

That includes BST transactions, and items invoiced as a
payment for merchandise via email.

"Gift" payments are NOT covered by "Purchase Protection." >>

Wrong, Paypal's exact words on buyer protection: "When you pay with PayPal on any website PayPal Purchase Protection covers you if you have a problem." And, unless it is specifically an ebay purchase they only agree to "help you to get a full refund."

This means you have to pay with paypal on the website where you are buying. This does not apply to sending a paypal payment for a deal struck on the BST, craigslist or any other on-line site that does not actually process the paypal payment from that website. Paypal has customer satisfaction control over merchants they allow to accept on-line paypal payments...... >>

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

ALL of the information I stated is correct.

Your understanding/definition of what the new UA "means" is incorrect.

As of 10-31-10, the benefits of PP "Purchase Protection" on the purchase of
tangible items are the same on ALL venues; that includes the BST.

Purchase Protection

Eligibility Requirements:

Send the payment to the Seller through:

* the eBay “Pay Now” button or the eBay invoice;

or

* the “Send Money” button of your PayPal account by selecting “eBay Item” and entering your eBay User ID and the eBay item number for purchases on eBay website;

or

*the Send Money tab on the PayPal website, by clicking the “Purchase” tab, or by selecting the “Checkout with PayPal” button or otherwise selecting PayPal as part of a Seller’s checkout flow.

If a seller sends a buyer an email invoice for a tangible item thru ANY
medium or venue, and the buyer pays that invoice on the PayPal site
using the "Send Money" and "Purchase" tabs, "Purchase Protection"
is invoked.

Sellers can avoid the scheme by accepting personal/gift payments.
(Because this loophole is being widely abused, it will likely soon be
ended. Sellers receiving "too many" payments designated as either
"personal payment or gift" are being routinely warned and their
accounts are being monitored.)

To PayPal, a "gift" means what it says it means.

To PayPal, a "personal payment" means the reimbursement of money
owed to a friend. eg: Your share of a restaurant bill that your friend
paid for you, or a loan that was made to you by an associate.

Additionally, sellers who are charging ANY additional amounts to buyers
paying with PayPal are in violation of the PP TOS and UA. If PP takes
notice of such violations, the seller will generally receive ONE warning
and their account will be suspended/closed for subsequent violations.

See Section 13 of the UA:

copy and paste

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US

If you sell a tangible item, BOTH INR and SNAD disputes/claims can be filed
by the buyer on ANY venue; the scheme is identical to that used on EBAY
purchase disputes.

"Personal Payments" are treated as "Gifts" and neither are eligible for "Purchase
Protection."

By sending a "personal payment" or a "gift," buyers waive their "Purchase Protection."

ANY invoice for tangible merchandise not excluded by the UA, and sent thru ANY venue
invokes "Purchase Protection."

13.3 Ineligible Items.

PayPal Purchase Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods.

Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Purchase Protection:

Intangible items, including Digital Goods
Services
Real estate, including residential property
Businesses
Vehicles, including motor vehicles, motorcycles, caravans, aircraft and boats
Custom made items
Travel tickets, including airline flight tickets
Items prohibited by the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy
Items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected on your behalf
Items that violate eBay’s Prohibited or Restricted Items Policy
Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
Items equivalent to cash, including prepaid or gift cards
PayPal Direct Payments
Virtual Terminal Payments
Personal Payments

//////////////////

Prior to 10/31/10, non-EBAY venues were recourse-free for SNAD
disputes/claims, but INR disputes/claims followed the EBAY model
as they do today.

Many ecrater and bonanza sellers who fled EBAY to avoid unwarranted
PayPal SNAD-claims, have now returned to EBAY; due to the off-EBAY
sites now being subject to both INR and SNAD claims.

////////////////////////

In order to qualify for PayPal "Seller Protection," a seller on ANY venue
simply follows the same protocols used on EBAY.

edited to repair/remove link.

storm888 · March 24, 2011 2:18PM

<< I don't think a seller can opt out of taking an echeck though. I'd love to be wrong because it's annoying to be paid that way

Just refund it and tell the buyer nicely that those aren't accepted. Done it a few times...confident it can be done. >>

////////////////

If a nasty buyer complains that a seller rejects an echeck, the
seller will be found in violation of the PP UA and TOS. Such
sellers can have their PP accounts restricted or closed.

JamesMurray · March 24, 2011 2:37PM

<< I don't think a seller can opt out of taking an echeck though. I'd love to be wrong because it's annoying to be paid that way

Just refund it and tell the buyer nicely that those aren't accepted. Done it a few times...confident it can be done. >>

I'd run the gauntlet of negsville doing that don't ya think ? I'm not sure if a buyer is in a position to leave feedback premature or not when paying by echeck but i'd think if it shows as won in their ebay they could ?

Amigo · March 24, 2011 2:43PM

I pay ebay via echecks. I do that because I negotiate deals, and saving the Seller 2.9% transaction fees adds up fast. In the last couple weeks I've paid sellers around $15000 with only a $5 fee each. Every echeck I've sent, clears my Bank that night. Paypal doesn't notify the seller that it cleared for another few days. I doubt it's because they care so much about earning the interest on the carry. I suspect it's because they want to make it inconvienient for both the buyers and sellers. It's so funny, sellers would rather give paypal an extra 2.9% instead of wait 3 days to be paid, that is just so nutz. That's exactly what paypal counts on though, they want to keep that 2.9% rolling in because of inpatient buyers/sellers. So far, I've never had a problem with it from a Seller. Fingers crossed.

JamesMurray · March 24, 2011 2:52PM

An Echeck isnt the worst a seller can come off , i just wish people would give a heads up that they intend to use the method.Often sellers have other transactions on the go and it can be annoying to have money suspended somewhere with no prior knowledge for planning is what i mean.

OPA · March 24, 2011 9:00PM

<< If a nasty buyer complains that a seller rejects an echeck, the seller will be found in violation of the PP UA and TOS. Such sellers can have their PP accounts restricted or closed. >>

Completely correct. Sellers do not have the authority to restrict the type of PayPal payments they are willing to accept. If you accept PayPal, you are required to accept PayPal eChecks...

derryb · March 24, 2011 10:08PM

storm, thank you for the clarification.

Problem with paypal e-check

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