Why even attempt a crossover

CEOGBOSE

I was just curious, I've seen many threads from members debating whether or not to attempt a crossover from NGC to PCGS. I'm sure we all agree without much debate these are the top two TPG. If I were either one of them why would I give a coin a higher grade than my closest competition wouldn't that imply possibly a softer standard than the other? Why buy the NGC coin if you prefer PCGS standards and holder reputation. Why not just buy the coin you want in a PCGS holder in the grade you want? What am I missing other than common sense. LOL

19Lyds

You're missing the fact that sometimes, NGC coins can be had for a cheaper price than the same graded coin in a PCGS slab.

This obviously is NOT true across all coins, only some and the trick, is in finding an NGC slabbed coin that is graded fairly close to PCGS's standards and then making the crossover. From a dealers perspective, a highend MS65 just might make a low end MS66 in a PCGS slab and increase the profit level.

AnkurJ

There are some very nice coins in NGC holders. Why limit yourself to buying coins graded by just one TPG?

CEOGBOSE

<< <i>There are some very nice coins in NGC holders. Why limit yourself to buying coins graded by just one TPG? >>



Yes that's kind of my point and agree with you 100%

coinsarefun

<< <i>You're missing the fact that sometimes, NGC coins can be had for a cheaper price than the same graded coin in a PCGS slab.

This obviously is NOT true across all coins, only some and the trick, is in finding an NGC slabbed coin that is graded fairly close to PCGS's standards and then making the crossover. From a dealers perspective, a highend MS65 just might make a low end MS66 in a PCGS slab and increase the profit level. >>





I agree

bidask

I would encourage cross attempts to pcgs.

Generally speaking, I think they want nice coins in their slabs and would cross a coin if it warrants.

JCMhouston

I don't mess around with crossing. I buy the coin if I like it.

DIMEMAN

I don't want to limit myself from finding any coin I need no matter what holder it is in.

BUT once I get the coin........it goes into PCGS!!!!!!!

Elcontador

In general, I tell people to buy the coin they seek in the holder they like for the price they are willing to pay and forget about doing this.

That being said, for a major purchase, you need to see as many coins as possible of the type and grade(s) which interest you, and also speak to people you know and trust who have more knowledge about these coins (than you do).

As an example, NGC has a reputation for being a 1/2 point looser in grading MS 65s re Capped Bust Halves. I've seen enough of them to believe this. The same reputation exists for MS 65 Barber Halves and super grade Liberty Nickels. Ditto re RD copper. So, if imo, for the reasons mentioned, I don't think you're going to get your cross re the coins mentioned.

There are many nice coins in NGC holders and I own a few of them. The ones I have aren't in the series of coins listed above.

PawPaul

buy all the NGC coins you want ; then get them crossed into PCGS holders....or at least attempt to -

why ? Because PCGS coins are the only one's graded by The Professional Coin Grading Service : the top grading company in the world .

There are reason's PCGS receives more then likely 10X the amount of crossover submissions then NGC does and those reasons have

been the topic and content of so many threads here on these boards - I can't begin to count them all .

ambro51

the higher the value of the coin, the less I am interested in seeing it in an NGC holder.

PawPaul

a feller had this monster toned Franklin , it was toned so wildly , I had to wonder if it could be real , original toning -

.....It was in a NGC 65 holder and I offered to buy it if the owner could get it crossed to PCGS .

I did not think it would/could cross as the toning was very outrageous ,

and the location , size , AND number of marks excluded a crossover in my mind (as I got some 400 PCGS MS 65 and better PCGS slabbed Franklins

and I kinda got an idea of what and what not they will grade MS 65 and better ) .

The coin never got crossed ........in fact , it was sent to NGC for a regrade and low and behold - it now sits in a NGC MS 66 * (star) holder .............

I'm not going to sit here and peck out with two fingers every one of such similar examples I know about ; I would be typing until doomsday .

I am a PCGS man , always was and always will be .

If you feel comfortable with NGC coins , and feel they are graded basically no differently then those graded by PCGS , and that there are no more A.T./ doctored coins in NGC slabs

then there are in PCGS holders ..........

Then you go get 'um tiger

BlindedByEgo

Your premise fails to acknowledge that sometimes the best coin available to an individual resides in a plastic holder that does not meet that individual's needs - whether regarding a registry set, or for many of us, needs driven by OCD or similar disorders

lordmarcovan

Some folks like the "crack-n'-resubmit" game (or regular crossovers) and some don't.

I'm personally one who doesn't, as I don't submit to TPGs that often, and consider it a chore when I do. When I buy a coin in a slab, it usually remains in the plastic I bought it in.

That being said, some folks are pretty good at the game, and can do pretty well at it.

max42565

<< <i>a feller had this monster toned Franklin , it was toned so wildly , I had to wonder if it could be real , original toning -

.....It was in a NGC 65 holder and I offered to buy it if the owner could get it crossed to PCGS .

I did not think it would/could cross as the toning was very outrageous ,

and the location , size , AND number of marks excluded a crossover in my mind (as I got some 400 PCGS MS 65 and better PCGS slabbed Franklins

and I kinda got an idea of what and what not they will grade MS 65 and better ) .

The coin never got crossed ........in fact , it was sent to NGC for a regrade and low and behold - it now sits in a NGC MS 66 * (star) holder .............

I'm not going to sit here and peck out with two fingers every one of such similar examples I know about ; I would be typing until doomsday .

I am a PCGS man , always was and always will be .

If you feel comfortable with NGC coins , and feel they are graded basically no differently then those graded by PCGS , and that there are no more A.T./ doctored coins in NGC slabs

then there are in PCGS holders ..........

Then you go get 'um tiger >>

I would be willing to bet that if you cracked out your 400 coins and sent them back to pcgs some would come back lower,some higher,and if there toned some in a genuine holder. It would be interesting to take them all send them to pcgs,break them out and then send them to ngc.In the series I collect,circulated seated and barber coins, they both do about the same job in my opinion, and I would not pay more for a pcgs coin. But I will always be willing to pay more for an exceptional example, be it raw or certified. I really collect by the buy the coin not the holder philosophy,probably because I got started about 10 years before pcgs or ngc.So I had already learned most of the bad lessons.

Constantine

<< <i>You're missing the fact that sometimes, NGC coins can be had for a cheaper price than the same graded coin in a PCGS slab.

This obviously is NOT true across all coins, only some and the trick, is in finding an NGC slabbed coin that is graded fairly close to PCGS's standards and then making the crossover. From a dealers perspective, a highend MS65 just might make a low end MS66 in a PCGS slab and increase the profit level. >>



What he said.

ambro51

Its all about the standards of grading, and how the collecting community values (prices) them. Of course there are 66 coins in N holders that are every bit the 66 in a P holder but the uncertainty of 'opinions' tosses a monkey wrench into the whole crossover process



Frankly, if I find a N coin with a Green Bean then I consider it every bit as good as a P coin.

Steve27

The only "good" reason for attempting a crossover is to get a coin into a PCGS Registry set.

roadrunner

Generally speaking, I think they want nice coins in their slabs and would cross a coin if it warrants.

I can agree with that. But the next question is who does the current system want to profit from that journey of a coin to be crossed? There will be additional grading
fees to come if the system is tough, and additional cherry picks for sharp-eyed, deep-pocketed dealers the longer those coins stay uncrossed. What's the advantage to
rushing all the potentially crossable NGC coins into PCGS holders? There is none. The advantage is already clearly with PCGS as the general perception is that NGC coins
across the board tend to be less desireable. Auction prices as well as regular sales bear this out. There would be no gain, and probably a loss if the cross
rate were ever to go from the current 25-40% to something much higher. Obviously cracking out a coin negates all of the above, but it also throws in the additional risk
of not getting one's coin back in the orginal grade, ever again.

Frankly, if I find a N coin with a Green Bean then I consider it every bit as good as a P coin.

I do as well. Unfortunately the market still prices the PCGS beaned coin higher. What really determines the price of N coin with bean is how easily crossable does the
buyer think it is. There are of course some sharp-eyed collectors and dealers who will buy solely on the coin's quality, regardless of anything else. But I have to think they
are in a small minority and have little effect on overall market pricing, except in their niche area. The vast majority of buyers in the overall coin market cannot look past the
plastic. And even the ones that can, will lean toward taking the increased liquidity of one holder over another.

roadrunner

djdilliodon

I shall not offer an opinion on this subject as it will not change a thing. Buy what you like and what gives you the most enjoyment.

LindeDad

<< <i>Your premise fails to acknowledge that sometimes the best coin available to an individual resides in a plastic holder that does not meet that individual's needs - whether regarding a registry set, or for many of us, needs driven by OCD or similar disorders >>



finding myself pushed into this coner more and more.

DennisH

<< <i>

<< <i>Your premise fails to acknowledge that sometimes the best coin available to an individual resides in a plastic holder that does not meet that individual's needs - whether regarding a registry set, or for many of us, needs driven by OCD or similar disorders >>



finding myself pushed into this corner more and more. >>


Yep.

Billet7

You assume that it is possible to find a similar coin in another holder, which in my experience is usually not the case, unless you collect very common items.

PawPaul

Max ,

would be willing to bet that if you cracked out your 400 coins and sent them back to pcgs some would come back lower,some higher,and if there toned some in a genuine holder. It would be interesting to take them all send them to pcgs,break them out and then send them to ngc.In the series I collect,circulated seated and barber coins, they both do about the same job in my opinion, and I would not pay more for a pcgs coin


I think you are correct on that bet ! And yes, my tunnel vision and opinion is drawn almost totally in regards to Mint State Franklin halfs ......... other series I'm sure have much less variance between the TPG's .

morgandollar1878

Because it is not always about the plastic. If you find a coin that you like in another TPG's holder, you got it cheaper than what it would have cost in a PCGS holder and you think that it would grade higher in a PCGS holder and be worth more then why would you not play the game?

chumley

just cracked out 2 morgans in ANACS....1880 S ms64 dmpl became PCGS 64 PL and an 1884 CC ms65 became PCGS 65 +

leothelyon

<< <i>a feller had this monster toned Franklin , it was toned so wildly , I had to wonder if it could be real , original toning -

.....It was in a NGC 65 holder and I offered to buy it if the owner could get it crossed to PCGS .

I did not think it would/could cross as the toning was very outrageous ,

and the location , size , AND number of marks excluded a crossover in my mind (as I got some 400 PCGS MS 65 and better PCGS slabbed Franklins

and I kinda got an idea of what and what not they will grade MS 65 and better ) .

The coin never got crossed ........in fact , it was sent to NGC for a regrade and low and behold - it now sits in a NGC MS 66 * (star) holder .............

I'm not going to sit here and peck out with two fingers every one of such similar examples I know about ; I would be typing until doomsday .

I am a PCGS man , always was and always will be .

If you feel comfortable with NGC coins , and feel they are graded basically no differently then those graded by PCGS , and that there are no more A.T./ doctored coins in NGC slabs

then there are in PCGS holders ..........

Then you go get 'um tiger >>



Sounds like you're pretty good at spotting coins that will cross.........no matter what TGS you use.


Leo

leothelyon

<< <i>Because it is not always about the plastic. If you find a coin that you like in another TPG's holder, you got it cheaper than what it would have cost in a PCGS holder and you think that it would grade higher in a PCGS holder and be worth more then why would you not play the game? >>




A game it is! A coin that's passed back and forth on several occasions will usually grade within a certain range. If something can be found wrong with the coin, it will be used to explain the coin's grade. Because the coin has great eye appeal, most will think it will upgrade. How long will it be played until that flaw is overlooked and is finally entombed forever in that long sought after grade? By whom, of course, is the question and ultimately profits.


Leo

dragon

I believe in buying both PCGS and NGC graded coins, then cracking them open and putting the coin in a beautiful #145 Capital holder.

Monstavet

It is nice to have them all in the same kind of holder. It is nice to be able to put them in a Registry set. No matter how much we stamp our feet and scream 'buy the coin, not the holder' won't change the fact that PCGS holders bring the highest bids when it comes time to sell.

If none of those three things apply to you, then there is no point in crossing over.

Monstarcoins

Because I am addicted to star designations! If its a flipping coin I always send it into PCGS because as already stated they bring the best prices. If PCGS develops a designation for colorful coins than I will probably cross all of my personal coins over to PCGS.