a natural level for the MS 66 piece , with fierce bidding and multiple folks wanting the coin .......
would possibly break the 2000$ barrier .
The coin has a pop. of over 600 , and although the date is really scarce with magnificent toning
it is no where near the territory of say the MS 66+ super toned PCGS 1951-D I had to work very hard to get 3 grand for ,
and not even close to the league the 49-D plays in with the best , prettiest , pieces money can buy in PCGS MS 65 FBL holders bringing 2 to 3 thousand dollars .
No , I put it to you that Franklin specialists are the ones that lay out a few thousand dollars for individual coins , and they do that only when they know the coin is something very , very special .
The like's of Ronyahski, Skyman, Madmonk , Rainbowroosie, Sumorada, SeattleSlammer, Bear, Dragon, Pontiacinf, etc, etc had some problems with the coin ; as did nearly every other knowledgeable Franklin enthusiast
.and I surely don't have to spell out why ! Folks like the one's named above have a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge .......
They are some of top toned coin people in the world Jack : you can take their combined opinions and engrave it in granite - that's how much weight their words carry.
So that would leave folks that got money to burn and limited practical knowledge of the series left to bid ,
and I say no way in heck did that coin achieve the 4000$ level with those type of bidders ..not without some kind of hocus pokus
PP - If there are instincts to be followed in the Franklin market, yours is the first I'd be listening to, and you are spot on here. Just having the benefit of the pics, these are two of the most interesting Franklins I have seen come along in quite some time. Reminds me of the sulphur mine 60-Ds of years ago. I'd really like to see these 56 coins in hand, becasue I can't explain the pics.
I can think of a few spectacular two sided mint set toned 56s that in the heyday pushed the $2k price level. But even if the market for high end toners is currently on the upswing as you suggest, I'm at a loss as to why $4k, and why these two coins.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
What is even scarier is that those two Franklins have EXACTLY the same look as some Toned Morgans that I have seen recently. I wondered about those Morgans (I have some of the Sonnier coins), but I think that I will quit wondering after seeing those images here.
Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
First off the toning immediately throws up a red flag to me. While the pattern looks like end roll toning isn't just ironic that the color is on the money side (obverse) of both coins? As for the prices it could of just been the seller doing the bidding no? Maybe all those saying that they wouldn't bid actually did .
<< <i>What is even scarier is that those two Franklins have EXACTLY the same look as some Toned Morgans that I have seen recently. >>
DING! DING! DING! DING!
<< <i> While the pattern looks like end roll toning isn't just ironic that the color is on the money side (obverse) of both coins? >>
Considering that the odds of this happening are 1 in 4, one wouldn't think that is too unusual.
But wasn't there a group of 1960-D's recently made that had remarkable "EOR" toning, ALL on the obverse? I thought it was pretty lucky that all of those had a favorable roll orientation as well.
<< <i>Ehhhhh, I'm not sure. It could be EOR, as I've seen some IMO NT 1963's that look like that, although not quite as vibrant (which could be an image issue). OTOH, I've never seen a '56 look anywhere near like that. Let's just say, I won't be bidding on them. >>
lets just say our resident Franklin Expert did not bid on them
I'd still like to have me some psychedelic franklins.
P.S. If AB hasn't come up with a name for these frankies, can we have a vote? I'd call these ones skittles "taste the rainbow" after seeing the above rainbow vomit picture. *laugh*
To make an on topic reply to this thread, as a Franklin collector I must agree with the consensus that I have never seen anything like them, and they are fantastic looking!
I would say clearly Market Acceptable. As to wheter they are truly NT (an arguement similar to debating the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin), they look convincing, other than being "too good to be true"
Fair enough AngryTurtle and a good post...that is whats so amazing about these two and right this second looking at both in hand they are incredible and absolutely look 100% real deal...Images can not like any picture taken of anything show what something looks exactly like when viewing it...How many times have you or anyone else taken pics and said "that doesn`t do that any justice"... So one can not see the way that the colors, luster and overall look of these two truly are without seeing them in hand...I say this, that in the images i can see where folks could have doubts...Being as my very first view of them was "NO WAY"! Mostly because i had never seen such toning on a Franklin(how could that be?)...But it took all of a few seconds in a close up for me to say to myself "those look real"... Now that`s my opinion but what the heck do i know...
<< <i>Fair enough AngryTurtle and a good post...that is whats so amazing about these two and right this second looking at both in hand they are incredible and absolutely look 100% real deal...Images can not like any picture taken of anything show what something looks exactly like when viewing it...How many times have you or anyone else taken pics and said "that doesn`t do that any justice"... So one can not see the way that the colors, luster and overall look of these two truly are without seeing them in hand...I say this, that in the images i can see where folks could have doubts...Being as my very first view of them was "NO WAY"! Mostly because i had never seen such toning on a Franklin(how could that be?)...But it took all of a few seconds in a close up for me to say to myself "those look real"... Now that`s my opinion but what the heck do i know...
They could be natural, just the perfect storm of toning conditions where ever that roll was...
Super rare to find EOR toning similar to these coins, and what's even super rarer is finding another outrageous toned example at the other end and in a ms66 grade.
I will just call them "questionable toning" for now.
all the members of this forum who think these franklins are at would think they are nt if they owned them ! we just wish that those two franklins were in our collection , don't we ?
<< <i>all the members of this forum who think these franklins are at would think they are nt if they owned them ! we just wish that those two franklins were in our collection , don't we ?
two great coins , no dought about it ! >>
dimeman you know you had it right from the get go... Thank you again...
Comments
in my opinion - something very un-right about the price level supposedly achieved .
nearly 4 grand with fees/juice/handling & postage ?
no , no way .......... not naturally anyway
my condolances to the buyer
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>.....no , no way .......... not naturally anyway >>
So. You reckoning supernatural, preturnatural, or unnatural? Naturally we do wonder about the nature of your comment.
Your the old soldier that bemoans the unrelenting erosion of Franklin prices for the last two decades aren't you?
Now the signs of rekindled interest, new players (some apparently with deep pockets), and soaring prices, and you cry foul?
Just saying.
On another note, Deltadimeman, were you the consignor by any chance? You seem to be minority spokesman for the coins originality.
That is one psychedelic Franklin! And maybe purchased by the consignor at roll bid! It nearly sucks I tell ya!
would possibly break the 2000$ barrier .
The coin has a pop. of over 600 , and although the date is really scarce with magnificent toning
it is no where near the territory of say the MS 66+ super toned PCGS 1951-D I had to work very hard to get 3 grand for ,
and not even close to the league the 49-D plays in with the best , prettiest , pieces money can buy in PCGS MS 65 FBL holders bringing 2 to 3 thousand dollars .
No , I put it to you that Franklin specialists are the ones that lay out a few thousand dollars for individual coins , and they do that only when they know the coin is something very , very special .
The like's of Ronyahski, Skyman, Madmonk , Rainbowroosie, Sumorada, SeattleSlammer, Bear, Dragon, Pontiacinf, etc, etc had some problems with the coin ; as did nearly every other knowledgeable Franklin enthusiast
.and I surely don't have to spell out why ! Folks like the one's named above have a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge .......
They are some of top toned coin people in the world Jack : you can take their combined opinions and engrave it in granite - that's how much weight their words carry.
So that would leave folks that got money to burn and limited practical knowledge of the series left to bid ,
and I say no way in heck did that coin achieve the 4000$ level with those type of bidders ..not without some kind of hocus pokus
I can think of a few spectacular two sided mint set toned 56s that in the heyday pushed the $2k price level. But even if the market for high end toners is currently on the upswing as you suggest, I'm at a loss as to why $4k, and why these two coins.
I wondered about those Morgans (I have some of the Sonnier coins), but I think that I will quit wondering after seeing those images here.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
<< <i>What is even scarier is that those two Franklins have EXACTLY the same look as some Toned Morgans that I have seen recently. >>
DING! DING! DING! DING!
<< <i> While the pattern looks like end roll toning isn't just ironic that the color is on the money side (obverse) of both coins? >>
Considering that the odds of this happening are 1 in 4, one wouldn't think that is too unusual.
But wasn't there a group of 1960-D's recently made that had remarkable "EOR" toning, ALL on the obverse? I thought it was pretty lucky that all of those had a favorable roll orientation as well.
<< <i>Ehhhhh, I'm not sure. It could be EOR, as I've seen some IMO NT 1963's that look like that, although not quite as vibrant (which could be an image issue). OTOH, I've never seen a '56 look anywhere near like that. Let's just say, I won't be bidding on them. >>
lets just say our resident Franklin Expert did not bid on them
<< <i>At those prices I wouldn't touch those coins with a ten foot pole. >>
..he said 10 foot POLE !
I see the "look" of these two Franklins on silver dollars you have ,
on Silver Dollars , this tone has become acceptable .
On Franklin half dollars -it is not
Anything is possible in this beautiful and wonderful world .....................
but it could be that the folks that "make" the market acceptable ERT on your Dollars -
have crossed into the "Franklin Field Effect "
and produced these two coins when they shouldn't have .
What would happen if this is evidence of a doctor moving to a new series he's not a specialist in and creates his own fingerprinting
so 's the TPG'S catch on to his work ...........?
so let it be said
<< <i>.so it is written ;
so let it be said >>
Didn`t Moses destroy that guys (Ramesses) kingdom? Well atleast in the movie...
AB
<< <i>AT psychedelic
Shouldn't that be a unicorn vomiting rainbows?
I'd still like to have me some psychedelic franklins.
P.S. If AB hasn't come up with a name for these frankies, can we have a vote? I'd call these ones skittles "taste the rainbow" after seeing the above rainbow vomit picture. *laugh*
the old "toning looks funky -gets a 64 "
held true for the first coin the grader looked at - but seeing the second example over rode that principle and a 66 was given out ..........
no body went back to the first coin and gave it the grade it deserved ; hence the 2 point bump when they went for regrades ......
Russ, NCNE
PP you maybe onto the way the grading went? Hard to say but it was definitely a proper upgrade especially with the luster the previous 64 has...
AB
<< <i>
<< <i>AT psychedelic
Shouldn't that be a unicorn vomiting rainbows?
>>
OK I am one never to pass up a challenge!
I would say clearly Market Acceptable. As to wheter they are truly NT (an arguement similar to debating the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin), they look convincing, other than being "too good to be true"
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Now that`s my opinion but what the heck do i know...
AB
<< <i>Fair enough AngryTurtle and a good post...that is whats so amazing about these two and right this second looking at both in hand they are incredible and absolutely look 100% real deal...Images can not like any picture taken of anything show what something looks exactly like when viewing it...How many times have you or anyone else taken pics and said "that doesn`t do that any justice"... So one can not see the way that the colors, luster and overall look of these two truly are without seeing them in hand...I say this, that in the images i can see where folks could have doubts...Being as my very first view of them was "NO WAY"! Mostly because i had never seen such toning on a Franklin(how could that be?)...But it took all of a few seconds in a close up for me to say to myself "those look real"...
Now that`s my opinion but what the heck do i know...
AB
Those things look so AT its not even funny
PS
My offer is still good!
They are "wow" coins, so will attract a lot of attention both + and -, as has already been demonstrated.
AB
Super rare to find EOR toning similar to these coins, and what's even super rarer is finding another outrageous toned example at the other end and in a ms66 grade.
I will just call them "questionable toning" for now.
<< <i>
are you taunting me?
two great coins , no dought about it !
<< <i>
<< <i>
are you taunting me?
Not at all Monstarcoins! On the contrary i think you have some awesome coins and thank you for your input on the Franks...
AB
<< <i>all the members of this forum who think these franklins are at would think they are nt if they owned them ! we just wish that those two franklins were in our collection , don't we ?
two great coins , no dought about it ! >>
dimeman you know you had it right from the get go... Thank you again...
AB