How much is enough????
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Such an ambiguous question that undoubtedly will lead to many different answers from many different people.
Taking the "investment/speculating" aspect away, and focusing primarily as an insurance policy, at what point is The Stack big enough for you? Im not looking for % of portfolio sizes, rather just pure, raw numbers.
Again, im certain that even when discussing this in terms of an "insurance policy", we will get very different answers......just as in life insurance policy coverages.
For my personal situation, im thinking that 1,000oz of silver, and 30oz of gold should be enough "insurance" against either hyperinflation, or just the total collapse of the USD as we know it.
At what point do you slow down adding, and divert those monthly dollars into other pursuits, such as projects around the home....family vacations....or even just socking away a bit more cash reserves than you are used to holding?
Taking the "investment/speculating" aspect away, and focusing primarily as an insurance policy, at what point is The Stack big enough for you? Im not looking for % of portfolio sizes, rather just pure, raw numbers.
Again, im certain that even when discussing this in terms of an "insurance policy", we will get very different answers......just as in life insurance policy coverages.
For my personal situation, im thinking that 1,000oz of silver, and 30oz of gold should be enough "insurance" against either hyperinflation, or just the total collapse of the USD as we know it.
At what point do you slow down adding, and divert those monthly dollars into other pursuits, such as projects around the home....family vacations....or even just socking away a bit more cash reserves than you are used to holding?
0
Comments
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Different because of our age, lifestyle, commitments, wants and needs.
One 'trap' that we all may experience is the 'I want more' syndrome.
Assuming a person is comfortable with 'X' amount of PM's, there is the trap of wanting to accumulate more, at the expense of enjoying your present day commitments.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>The answer will be different for each and everyone of us.
Different because of our age, lifestyle, commitments, wants and needs.
One 'trap' that we all may experience is the 'I want more' syndrome.
Assuming a person is comfortable with 'X' amount of PM's, there is the trap of wanting to accumulate more, at the expense of enjoying your present day commitments. >>
And it is exactly this "trap" that has caused me to pose my question. I dont accumulate at the expense of present day "commitments" per se. But the fact that I have been stacking in earnest has caused me to skip some other cost intensive hobbies/events that my family and I could have enjoyed instead. For instance, my wife likes to visit her relatives in the Philippines with our son. I dont go, but it has nothing to do with money. Anyway, we have agreed that this trip be a bi-annual event rather than every year. It costs about $7,000 for her to visit back home. Im sure she enjoys it very much, but in reality, there is nothing to show for these trips. I would much rather spend that $7k in adding to The Stack instead of simply blowing the cash on memories that fade over time. Now I sound like the bad husband! Perhaps its time to lighten up on the aquisition phase and allow her to enjoy "life" a bit more by green lighting the trip as an annual event? Maybe I should treat myself to a prospecting trip this summer? Its so hard to know when enough is really enough!
Gaining more and more PMs while losing bits and pieces of this life is not a good trade off. It's our only trip around so enjoy it while you can. You cannot always spend time with family especially when they're gone, but you can always buy metal anytime 24/7.
I get where you're coming from as I've felt some of the same feelings and justifications and there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying and holding PMs with monies that could be used for more frivilous or more important things, but when family is sacrificed, you have to back up and take a better look at your priorities.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>Gaining more and more PMs while losing bits and pieces of this life is not a good trade off. It's our only trip around so enjoy it while you can. You cannot always spend time with family especially when they're gone, but you can always buy metal anytime 24/7.
I get where you're coming from as I've felt some of the same feelings and justifications and there's absolutely nothing wrong with buying and holding PMs with monies that could be used for more frivilous or more important things, but when family is sacrificed, you have to back up and take a better look at your priorities. >>
But is it really a "sacrifice" that she only gets to go to her homeland every other year? Im sure there are many people who would LOVE to go that often. Im sure there are others who go a couple times a year. Had I told her she simply cant go at all, then I need to really rethink my priorities. My wife is an absolute peach. When I asked her to marry me, I said that we could go ring shopping or house shopping...you choose. She went for the house....didnt give even a tiny crap that we didnt blow $15,000 on a ring that is worth $4,000 tops if needed to be sold quickly. She is by far the most practical woman I have ever been with. She says that once every other year is just fine......but I do wonder if she really thinks that, and if she would like to go more often?
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
<< <i>If she is fine with doing that, no problems at all, more power to you and more metal to the stack. That may not be the case for the next couple though, it could/would create problems. My wife is very practical also and couldn't ask for a better soulmate. >>
Now if only you could talk your wife into letting you buy a vintage Gibson Guitar! LOL
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
I never think in these terms to answer your questions. I never give a second thought to how much I have. I'm always thinking
in terms of how much can I give. I'm no mother theresa by a long shot, but I always go through my day thinking how I can give to others,
and never spend a second thinking about "my stash". Then again, I will always have plenty of money to live my very simplistic life.
Whenever I visit my simple stash, I never feel like it's too much or not enough. It just doesn't matter much to me.
Reading "Bear's" posts recently makes one step back and realize what's really important in life.
I think Gecko and I have had a debate about this in the past
Live life and enjoy, I sometimes catch myself getting in a funk with all the world events and economic news.
Just remember that just about everyone here is in the minority of our society when it comes to "insurance" policies and SHTF thinking in general.
If you are a spokeman for the minority then you've got issues in some peoples eyes...like someone mentioned above, take a step back and remember to take a breather sometimes.
Cheers!
CU Ancient Members badge member.
Collection: https://flickr.com/photos/185200668@N06/albums
We can help ask you more questions, but only you have the answers. I feel that by asking your question to the board that you've asked yourself it many times over. If that is the case, then that is something in it's self to consider.
I have only recently gravitated to PM's in the last 2 months, but if things like Japan's disasters hit our country, I wonder if my little ziploc bag of silver would be helpful right now and I don't really think it would. So for shtf scenarios, PM's might be a little overhyped. I'll take food, animals, and weapons/ammo even if only to fend off those without and truly desparate with bad intentions. But for a hedge against the USD or any other currency you may feel shaky about- with my little awakening and miniscule knowledge,PM's certainly seem to have big advantages.
It probably comes down to this: You know if your siding needs replacing, and/or the tires on the car. You obviously have a great handle on your cashflows. You know what your 1000/30 translates into vs. what you guys are used to enjoying on a daily basis. But especially after hearing about Bear, who I don't know but is probably smarter than I could ever hope to be-- we get one shot. I don't have any pics of my silver purchases but i do have a lot of them from my vacations. I used to view vacations as a big extravagant expense, but over time, I realize that those are a big part of my memories, even the bad experiences.
You have a great situation- your wife trusts and believes in you to do what is best for your family. It seems like you have the say in finances. If I were you, I would exceed her expectations and let her go every year. And without knowing the situation, I would also strongly consider going yourself a few times.
My two cents,
Steve
Now, it's easy for me to suggest different ways to spend other people's money, but this is a consideration for everyone, really.
I knew it would happen.
As for the trips, doesn't the wife earn a good part of the household income? It doesn't sound like a debate then. If single, a person could spend on whatever, but the income would be that much lower. Also keep in mind that the trips are part of the insurance. The Phillipines might be where the family runs to if things fall apart here. Not that many Americans have a decent exit plan, and half the time it is best to leave if things get real bad. That's where gold comes in most handy because of the small size. A little bit goes a long ways (average annual income in the Phillipines is $3000 USD). It is unlikely stockpiled guns, ammo or food can be taken out of the country during an emergency exit, and like I said historically, half the time it is best to find an exit and not stay and hunker down.
As for emergency supplies, everyone needs at least a little and can get that with shopping and consumption patterns. A modest amount will get a person through the most common scenarios such as a storm, an earthquake, unless it is the 100 year storm or the 100 year earthquake. Keep in mind that water is critical, that a little food goes a long ways. Most adults can last a month on a week's worth of food in an emergency. But if there is no water at all, it becomes life threatening after a few days.
As always, I advocate a healthy balanced approach to life. For average folks, age appropriate diversification in various asset classes (stocks, bonds, real estate, metals) is often the best way to go. For someone with zero gold, adding a little helps a lot. For someone with a big pile of gold, adding more doesn't add much utility, even if their net worth might go up the most with that decision as markets fluctuate. As Bear's sad news shows, having a big pile doesn't help that much when that kind of news comes down. Having a lifetime of memories from happy times shared with family are worth a lot more than a slightly bigger pile.
My wife used to visit her relatives in the Philippines every year. Now it's gotten to where she only wants to go
every 2 to 3 years. I've never viewed it as an expense but more of an investment in her happiness which I can't put a price on.
On the flip side of the coin (pun intended) she is totally on board with my accumulating the metals. Actually she is supportive
in anything I want to do.
I don't know how much is enough. I do know that psychologically that it's becoming more difficult for me to purchase at these
higher prices when I compare them to when I was purchasing gold in the $300 range and Silver in the $6 range, even though I believe that the
metals have much further to go.
No one cares about 90% silver? I recently sold 2 bags that was considered to be my "stash". Just wondering why no one seems to think of 90% as a PM. I for one consider it to be better than .999 Au or Ag. I understand the aspect of not getting full melt value for it when selling, but I don't buy it for full melt either, and in fact, I feel there is alot more "wiggle room" with it than .999 when buying, therefore it allows yourself to get a better deal than you could paying a min. of .50 OVER Spot for .999.
Not to mention that from time to time, I come across a "find" when buying the 90%. You don't get that buying .999, because when it comes time to sell what you feel might be a rare piece of .999, guess what every dealer is going to pay you? It's just .999 to them. With 90%, you open up the door for numismatic value too.
Now someone will say that it takes up too much space to store...please. I'm sure most of us have a big enough safe, or safe storing space, that we can put as many bags of 90% we feel we need in it.
all jmho
1000 ounces of Ag is about 75 punds or so ...just too heavy in case you have to carry it.
Think natural catastrophe or goverment crackdown ( japan right now or WW II )
and recent history also shows that gold is far less volatile than silver.
Groucho Marx
3,000 ounces silver
100 ounces gold
I can allocate current income to more bank CD's, stocks, numismatic coins or PMs. I have plenty of cash set aside and I will not purchase stocks. My steady accumulation of PMs since Feb 2009 has paid off handsomely and I'll just continue stacking even if I acheive my stated minimums.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
I wonder if people actually think about having to do that. $100 bills are so much easier to carry if the shtf and if the s does htf, all the gold, silver, money etc. aint gonna matter anyway. Things like water, food will suddenly be worth a whole lot more than any amount of pm or money.
I highly recommend everyone watch a movie that came out a few years ago called "The Road".
watch the trailer
THAT is how it will be, not people willing to barter for gold.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>just too heavy in case you have to carry it
I wonder if people actually think about having to do that. $100 bills are so much easier to carry if the shtf and if the s does htf, all the gold, silver, money etc. aint gonna matter anyway. Things like water, food will suddenly be worth a whole lot more than any amount of pm or money.
I highly recommend everyone watch a movie that came out a few years ago called "The Road".
watch the trailer
THAT is how it will be, not people willing to barter for gold. >>
Strongly disagree.
First of all, if one HAD to be mobile, just how much food and water could you carry? 4-5 days worth at most? Then what? Then you have nothing.
I can carry enough gold right now in one pocket of my jeans to buy food to eat for 4-5 years under current conditions. Will that change if the dollar collapses? Maybe.
When people talk about the "SHTF" scenario, I often wonder if we are all on the same page? What I refer to as "SHTF" has nothing to do with earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, asteroids, or nuclear war. When I talk about "SHTF" scenarios, im simply talking about the financial type.....most specifically the fall of the USD. In an event such as that, there will be PLENTY of people willing to trade goods, services, food, water, and any other thing you can think of for precious metals. And it wont be the guy who has just enough food for himself, but rather large food distributors. Rather than watch their stockpiles rot.....or trade their goods for the failed USD, they will happily accept metals as form of payment. Thats how it has worked for the last 2,000+ years. People traded gold/silver for food/goods. Its the natural way of humans....only recently perverted by the fiat system.
Even under the worst possible financial crisis, transactions and commerce will still exist. And direct barter will not be the large scale solution...far too cumbersome. When....not if, but WHEN the USD collapses, something will immediately fill that nasty void. My bet is that it will be precious metals....what do you think it will be?
<< <i>Thru the worst events in the last 2000 years, such as the fall of Rome, the dark ages, the black plague , napoleonic wars, WWII and countless natural disasters GOLD has been the most efficient way to retain as much of your wealth as possible. >>
It is the ONLY financial instrument of man that has lasted 5,000 years. There is nothing that even comes close. I can almost guarantee that gold will still have a place in the financial world of mankind 500 years from now. Can you say the same about the USD, or any other current financial instrument? I even think that in my lifetime I will see the collapse and replacement of the USD. And when that happens, will the masses be foolish enough again to allow a government to simply print "money" from thin air? I seriously doubt it!
Wow.30 oz of gold?and 1000 oz of silver?I am so far behind those numbers.I have been buying both within reason.One thing holding me up is that many online dealers in PMs want about 6.00 over melt for say ASEs and the prices are not much better on e bay.In fact when you factor in shipping costs it can be much more.
The "enjoy life now" issue is a good point, but draw a reasonable line so that you remain prepared for the future. In order to have the best quality of life that you can afford, you will have to spend all you have. Even more extreme are those that not only spend all they have to enjoy life, but become enslaved to debt in hopes of making life better. Preparing for the future does require sacrifice and one of those sacrifices is not having the "best" of everything.
All of my cash in excess of a "comfortable lifestyle" is directed to investments. I'm all in with physical PMs and all retirement funds are in PMs, rare earths and well performing asian equities. I don't plan based on a set percentage or number of ounces as a goal. If I don't need the cash for something it doesn't remain cash. I can easily convert it back to cash if necessary.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
<< <i>Wow.30 oz of gold?and 1000 oz of silver?I am so far behind those numbers.I have been buying both within reason.One thing holding me up is that many online dealers in PMs want about 6.00 over melt for say ASEs and the prices are not much better on e bay.In fact when you factor in shipping costs it can be much more. >>
If you are looking for more than just "insurance," measure your "success" not in how many ounces you hold; measure it in your percentage of net worth.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
If everyone investing their assets in progress of knowledge, were instead to sit on piles of nonproductive assets and hunker down, THEN I would become afraid
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Sounds like some of the OP and others are considering measuring Success not in units of financial account, but in how some of the units are used to Succeed in contribution to enjoyment of life for themselves and their kin, and perhaps, if they are very Successful, in value of contribution to Humankind and Modern Society.
If everyone investing their assets in progress of knowledge, were instead to sit on piles of nonproductive assets and hunker down, THEN I would become afraid >>
I would become afraid if the pile of assets were non-productive. A producing pile of assets guarantees me a longer enjoyment of life.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Remind us, what does a gold or silver bar, in and of itself, produce? it's not a cornstalk, cow, shop, factory or laboratory, it's not a robot or a payroll, what does it DO?
edit: and "guarantees"? Really??
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
A simple financial meltdown is not a crisis, or the shtf, in my eyes. It can be very easily dealt with in many legit ways and that's been proven many times over throughout history when an incident that happens to affects global finances. How? They just print more money. I'm not being sarcastic, i'm being realistic, because that's what usually happens.
Again, anything less than something happening like in the movie is not the shtf in my book. jmho and I hope it can be at least considered because I can see how some could see that a simple financial thing would be a crisis. I just don't agree with it, that's all.
<< <i>I would become afraid if the pile of assets were non-productive. A producing pile of assets guarantees me a longer enjoyment of life.
Remind us, what does a gold or silver bar, in and of itself, produce? it's not a cornstalk, cow, shop, factory or laboratory, it's not a robot or a payroll, what does it DO?
edit: and "guarantees"? Really?? >>
OK. I'll play along. PMs produce wealth preservation in times of dollar decline and in times of inflation which in turn guarantees me a longer enjoyment of life. PMs produce peace of mind in troubling economic times. But you already knew this, didn't you.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
but that's not what is meant by the term "productive assets" the way economists mean it, in terms of producing goods and services for "us" in a win-win scenario.
So having all of YOUR net worth in bars of metals is fine for YOU, but, like littering, if EVERYONE did it (and I mean all kinds of commodities, not picking on Metals in particular),
then commerce would indeed come to a standstill, CAUSING the armageddon that so many fear will be caused by a little too much liquidity in the markets at this time
all IMO
and I still ask, "guarantee"? Really?? I must not understand the meaning of that word
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
How much debt is there in an ounce of gold or silver?
I'll take the bird in the hand rather than the 2 FRN's promised in the bush.
roadrunner
Stored FRNs are just as useless for adding value to "the economy" as any other non-productive asset. Their value is when they're used to build something, and that's a big part of the problem right now.
People and businesses are so scared of risking the mis-deployment and potential loss of assets that they are hunkering down for an uncertain future
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
"Ya tote 15 tons what ya get? Another day older and deeper in debt!" lalala
<< <i>yes, we know owning bars of metals "produce" those intangible benefits for "me" but that's not what is meant by the term "productive assets" the way economists mean it, in terms of producing goods and services for "us" in a win-win scenario. So having all of YOUR net worth in bars of metals is fine for YOU, but, like littering, if EVERYONE did it (and I mean all kinds of commodities, not picking on Metals in particular), then commerce would indeed come to a standstill, CAUSING the armageddon that so many fear will be caused by a little too much liquidity in the markets at this time
all IMO
and I still ask, "guarantee"? Really?? I must not understand the meaning of that word >>
The longer enjoyment of life produced by my PM gains creates more spending on my part. That's about the best I will do for "us" while the 24% tax on my income is already being spent on "us." The remainder I will spend on me. If there's anything left over I will choose which "us" gets it with how I spend it or what charity I donate it to. I gave up the socialist views when those that take my tax dollars adopted them. I'm now a plain old capitalist that believes each man should reap the rewards of his sweat and sacrafice that are left over after paying his "fair" share of taxes for "us." Those that think they should benefit from my effort need to exert a bit of effort themselves. In a nutshell, my social responsibility is more than being met with what I provide to the taxman. Complaints with what he does with it should be taken directly to him.
If more people saved whether it be cash, commodities or metals, there would be LESS liquidy and much, much less debt. IMO social responsibility includes not becoming a slave to personal debt. Doing so eventually affects those of "us" that have to cover unpaid debt with higher prices or higher taxes.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
Since Andrew Jackson's time, it's been death, debt, & taxes......DDT.
roadrunner
<< <i>People and businesses are so scared of risking the mis-deployment and potential loss of assets that they are hunkering down for an uncertain future >>
What would you have them do, spend foolishly like the government does? Hunkering down during an uncertain future is what will determine who survives it and who doesn't. I'm gonna stay "hunkered" until I see different.
The government is incapable of ever managing the economy. That is why communism collapsed. It is now socialism’s turn - Martin Armstrong
No, of course not, since those are not the only two polar opposite choices: hunker down and spend nothing, or foolishly spend everything and more.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>
<< <i>The answer will be different for each and everyone of us.
Different because of our age, lifestyle, commitments, wants and needs.
One 'trap' that we all may experience is the 'I want more' syndrome.
Assuming a person is comfortable with 'X' amount of PM's, there is the trap of wanting to accumulate more, at the expense of enjoying your present day commitments.[/Q
Balance!
And it is exactly this "trap" that has caused me to pose my question. I dont accumulate at the expense of present day "commitments" per se. But the fact that I have been stacking in earnest has caused me to skip some other cost intensive hobbies/events that my family and I could have enjoyed instead. For instance, my wife likes to visit her relatives in the Philippines with our son. I dont go, but it has nothing to do with money. Anyway, we have agreed that this trip be a bi-annual event rather than every year. It costs about $7,000 for her to visit back home. Im sure she enjoys it very much, but in reality, there is nothing to show for these trips. I would much rather spend that $7k in adding to The Stack instead of simply blowing the cash on memories that fade over time. Now I sound like the bad husband! Perhaps its time to lighten up on the aquisition phase and allow her to enjoy "life" a bit more by green lighting the trip as an annual event? Maybe I should treat myself to a prospecting trip this summer? Its so hard to know when enough is really enough! >>
Fred, Las Vegas, NV