CoinWeek Article: "Coin Doctoring Presents A Moral Imperative to the Coin Industry"
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Coin Doctoring Presents A Moral Imperative to the Coin Industry
Posted by Richard Schwary on March 8, 2011 8:26 AM
Richard Schwary – California Numismatic Investments
It would be a great deal more fun to consider what R.W. Julian has to say about Gobrecht dollars but at this point in time the consideration in front of us is the rather murky numismatic subject called coin doctoring. I have talked with both David Hall of the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) and Mark Salzburg of Numismatic Grading Corporation (NGC) about this problem and believe these folks along with other industry leaders understand that not taking unilateral action against the growing danger of radical coin doctoring will at some point come back to haunt us all. And in the bargain we will be criticized historically for a simple lack of leadership within the rare coin industry.
Fortunately for all of us there is still time for aggressive action but let’s not put this issue on the back burner because the window of opportunity we now enjoy will shrink as fast as this extreme danger expands. I applaud both PCGS and NGC as well as the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) for working toward an understanding as to what criteria should be used when considering coin doctoring. And it is not my intention to solve this Gordian knot in a few paragraphs but I do see a problem if we do not insure progress from this point forward. There must be a tipping point for this industry when we all come together on this definition or forever be condemned as showing great promise but failing to deliver on difficult issues.
A review of Vic Botharth’s well developed statement Coin Doctoring and the PNG Decision (Coinweek.com) will help greatly because it clearly states what I believe is the professionally safe position many dealers have adopted now that the initial smoke has cleared. And at the same time it raises questions which will move the discussion forward, like the notion that the grading services did not equivocate on their expertise and in fact guaranteed the product. So as the stated experts they led the way into this mess and so the problem is theirs to fix and the trade should not be concerned. Fair enough but certainly not comprehensive especially when dealer and consumer organizations like the PNG and ANA place themselves in positions of authority.
Let me also add a general feeling I think every dealer has to some degree but was raised nicely by a friend of mine and old time PNG member at the last Long Beach Show. He admitted the obvious in that we all face this coin doctoring problem but said he did not want to get involved as he did not trade in the stealth damaged goods and his hands were full with regular day to day business. I was not at the PNG General Meeting when the modified definition of coin doctoring was not accepted but I talked with members who were and appreciate the difficulty of trying to parse words when it comes to doctoring. What is and what is not has been a part of the industry dialogue for as long as I can remember and the PNG already includes in its ethics rules an admonition concerning doctored coins.
I have also talked with Laura Sperber on the subject and believe she deserves not only trade recognition but an award from the American Numismatic Association (ANA). ANA President Cliff Mishler and ANA Executive Director Larry Sheperd are great leaders and will not cut and run on this subject so public recognition from the ANA can only serve to move this discussion forward.
In some ways Sperber reminds me of the heroine Calamity Jane played by the beautiful Robin Weigert in the famous HBO Series “Deadwood”. Laura’s fire breathing oratory in the middle of a mostly male audience should be admired. If we were honest with ourselves her “over the top” approach to this danger should be seen as the most important tactic ever used in moving this nightmare out of the closet. Some might believe she is grand standing but when we talked Laura came across as sincere and hardly out of gas on this controversial subject. She also has a wonderful regard for rare coins and continues to warn readers about treasures at risk in the name of raw profit and greed.
Ultimately I choose to believe the PNG will once again address this growing problem and take a stand which better defines coin doctoring if only to state the most obvious cases. I do not want to speak for PNG President Paul Montgomery even though he is a great friend of mine. But as a Past PNG President I can say with certainty that leadership always comes at a premium especially when “no one is happy”. And it seems to me that true leadership, especially in the face of hostile fire is never easily accepted. But great leaders tough it out and understand the mission and are willing historically to be applauded after the fact.
In the meantime let’s appreciate one of the most important gains this industry has made regarding coin doctoring: We all can now talk openly about this problem and so it is forever outside the numismatic shadows. Most of us know that progress is often tedious but because of this discussion we will eventually get a sense of where improvement makes sense.
No coin professional needs to be told that radical doctoring of coins is a pathetic reality so I hope we all applaud PCGS and NGC for constant vigilance. And the PCGS attempt at scientifically killing this monster with new technology like the Shield or the Sniffer is certainly a numismatic milestone. But we should understand the trade is now facing a new and much more virulent twist to an old numismatic problem so creative work and probably a great deal more money will be needed to tame this creature.
Perhaps policing it is not the job of the PNG but taking no action must prove ultimately dangerous. For you academic or religious readers doing nothing would be a violation of what German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) called the Categorical Imperative. And so my contention is simply that taking no action is not rational for any group which makes a rightful claim to be good for the rare coin industry.
Let’s make sure the coin industry does not stand in the way or worse tacitly contribute to this abuse while claiming the problem either cannot be defined or is not our business. No industry action or worse vague definitions fail to protect the good people who turn to rare coin professionals for proper advice and an honest deal. Inaction will also cost the industry its moral high ground and we will have no one to blame but ourselves. So in the end let us solve this problem while there was still time to set the record straight.
CoinWeek Link
Posted by Richard Schwary on March 8, 2011 8:26 AM
Richard Schwary – California Numismatic Investments
It would be a great deal more fun to consider what R.W. Julian has to say about Gobrecht dollars but at this point in time the consideration in front of us is the rather murky numismatic subject called coin doctoring. I have talked with both David Hall of the Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) and Mark Salzburg of Numismatic Grading Corporation (NGC) about this problem and believe these folks along with other industry leaders understand that not taking unilateral action against the growing danger of radical coin doctoring will at some point come back to haunt us all. And in the bargain we will be criticized historically for a simple lack of leadership within the rare coin industry.
Fortunately for all of us there is still time for aggressive action but let’s not put this issue on the back burner because the window of opportunity we now enjoy will shrink as fast as this extreme danger expands. I applaud both PCGS and NGC as well as the Professional Numismatists Guild (PNG) for working toward an understanding as to what criteria should be used when considering coin doctoring. And it is not my intention to solve this Gordian knot in a few paragraphs but I do see a problem if we do not insure progress from this point forward. There must be a tipping point for this industry when we all come together on this definition or forever be condemned as showing great promise but failing to deliver on difficult issues.
A review of Vic Botharth’s well developed statement Coin Doctoring and the PNG Decision (Coinweek.com) will help greatly because it clearly states what I believe is the professionally safe position many dealers have adopted now that the initial smoke has cleared. And at the same time it raises questions which will move the discussion forward, like the notion that the grading services did not equivocate on their expertise and in fact guaranteed the product. So as the stated experts they led the way into this mess and so the problem is theirs to fix and the trade should not be concerned. Fair enough but certainly not comprehensive especially when dealer and consumer organizations like the PNG and ANA place themselves in positions of authority.
Let me also add a general feeling I think every dealer has to some degree but was raised nicely by a friend of mine and old time PNG member at the last Long Beach Show. He admitted the obvious in that we all face this coin doctoring problem but said he did not want to get involved as he did not trade in the stealth damaged goods and his hands were full with regular day to day business. I was not at the PNG General Meeting when the modified definition of coin doctoring was not accepted but I talked with members who were and appreciate the difficulty of trying to parse words when it comes to doctoring. What is and what is not has been a part of the industry dialogue for as long as I can remember and the PNG already includes in its ethics rules an admonition concerning doctored coins.
I have also talked with Laura Sperber on the subject and believe she deserves not only trade recognition but an award from the American Numismatic Association (ANA). ANA President Cliff Mishler and ANA Executive Director Larry Sheperd are great leaders and will not cut and run on this subject so public recognition from the ANA can only serve to move this discussion forward.
In some ways Sperber reminds me of the heroine Calamity Jane played by the beautiful Robin Weigert in the famous HBO Series “Deadwood”. Laura’s fire breathing oratory in the middle of a mostly male audience should be admired. If we were honest with ourselves her “over the top” approach to this danger should be seen as the most important tactic ever used in moving this nightmare out of the closet. Some might believe she is grand standing but when we talked Laura came across as sincere and hardly out of gas on this controversial subject. She also has a wonderful regard for rare coins and continues to warn readers about treasures at risk in the name of raw profit and greed.
Ultimately I choose to believe the PNG will once again address this growing problem and take a stand which better defines coin doctoring if only to state the most obvious cases. I do not want to speak for PNG President Paul Montgomery even though he is a great friend of mine. But as a Past PNG President I can say with certainty that leadership always comes at a premium especially when “no one is happy”. And it seems to me that true leadership, especially in the face of hostile fire is never easily accepted. But great leaders tough it out and understand the mission and are willing historically to be applauded after the fact.
In the meantime let’s appreciate one of the most important gains this industry has made regarding coin doctoring: We all can now talk openly about this problem and so it is forever outside the numismatic shadows. Most of us know that progress is often tedious but because of this discussion we will eventually get a sense of where improvement makes sense.
No coin professional needs to be told that radical doctoring of coins is a pathetic reality so I hope we all applaud PCGS and NGC for constant vigilance. And the PCGS attempt at scientifically killing this monster with new technology like the Shield or the Sniffer is certainly a numismatic milestone. But we should understand the trade is now facing a new and much more virulent twist to an old numismatic problem so creative work and probably a great deal more money will be needed to tame this creature.
Perhaps policing it is not the job of the PNG but taking no action must prove ultimately dangerous. For you academic or religious readers doing nothing would be a violation of what German philosopher Immanuel Kant (1724–1804) called the Categorical Imperative. And so my contention is simply that taking no action is not rational for any group which makes a rightful claim to be good for the rare coin industry.
Let’s make sure the coin industry does not stand in the way or worse tacitly contribute to this abuse while claiming the problem either cannot be defined or is not our business. No industry action or worse vague definitions fail to protect the good people who turn to rare coin professionals for proper advice and an honest deal. Inaction will also cost the industry its moral high ground and we will have no one to blame but ourselves. So in the end let us solve this problem while there was still time to set the record straight.
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Comments
It already has.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
PNG has done nothing. NGC has done only minimal things. PCGS has taken these thugs on in force. To list PNG and NGC in the same sentence with PCGS when the subject is combating coin doctoring is crap.
<< <i>Coin Doctoring Presents A Moral Imperative to the Coin Industry >>
Just read my signature line.
Uh-huh. The origin of this is that PNG is a GUILD (i.e., an organization that acts to promote the interests of its members---dealers). Most dealers aren't too picky about what they sell. There are dealers who still sell whizzed coins, albeit at a discount, and don't worry about the issue of newbies getting taken by such junk sometime later. The majority of the PNG members evidently don't feel threatened enough by doctoring (perhaps because anything can be sold, if the price is right) to do anything substantive beyond kvetching in private, if that. When faced with a 'moral imperative,' looking away is never a good option. The larger problem is the disconnect between collectors and dealers---the interests of the groups are not well aligned as far as the issue of doctoring is concerned. Collectors will get burned, and walk away in disgust. Dealers will find it harder to maintain a stable clientele base. Perhaps most member dealers are old enough that they don't care about the future of the hobby?
It is frequently said that coins should be collected purely for enjoyment, eshewing financial considerations. I could do that it I limited myself to $500 coins. However, I have a hard time getting excited about $5,000 coins these days, since that sum won't buy much in the way of historically/numismaticaly cool coins. I feel threatened by doctored coins, and have been burned several times (red coppers that turned in their holders). If an organization like PNG just doesn't get it, I will take my business somewhere else (i.e., with non-members), and I hope that other collectors will do likewise. If enough do, I suspect that PNG members will find a way to crawl out of their box.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
The TPGs are the primary doctors in the paragraph above, and my personal dealer is my second opinion doctor. Not being an expert in coins, similar to not being a doctor myself, I try to also use my own judgment, but tend to rely on the first and second opinions of the coin experts.
I think this is how the coin doctoring should be approached. If the demand for doctored coins dries up, it will go a long way toward solving the problem.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
For years before this problem was perceived as a market problem, it was accepted as a part of the hobby. Both TPG's put millions of $$$ of coins in holders that are still out there. Many will still pass muster. And the supply of coins is so high compared to demand right now that the dreck will be here for years if not decades.
IMNSHO doctored coins, identified as such or not, have always been to some degree market-acceptable. And the earlier the coins the more likely they were done.
It's my belief that the doctoring problem is a public relations problem as well as a financial one. How many coins have been doctored as a percentage of coins graded? Your choice, total coins or total value.
Until enough guarantees were honored and refunds started to hit the books, you heard virtually nothing. And they kept on grading with world-class graders. No knock on these experts. I know many and they're really good. But they don't know everything.
The TPG's must promote their business model, which is to add value through unbiased accuracy.
If the value measure of "bad" coins is 1% that's $200KK for our hosts. Both majors have a contingent liability so far above the cash on hand! They must protect the image they project to their potential customer base.
All the bull-crap about some trash or "bidiot" on Ebay is such a trivial part of the problem you truly waste your time addressing it if you're interested in dollar value, and if it did, it still has nothing to do with holdered coins from ATS and our hosts. Mostly useless in terms of information except to prove the moral or technical superiority of the posters on such threads.
And oh yeah, the Sniffer and the Shield merely reduce the probability that something already experienced and classified (surfaces, substances) will slip through. Someone's out there already breeding a better mouse for the new mousetrap.
But the supply of newly-submitted "doctorees" is nothing compared to what's out there already.
Where's the horse? When the barn was built it was constructed without a door, just a rope across the door. And we were ALL fooled to one degree or another.
And here's to the new boss......
Per the estimable Ricko "reality bites".
DougWinter <<The number of nice coins in any given 19th century series is fewer than most people realize due to rampant coin doctoring over the past few decades. There are a number of major submitters to PCGS and NGC who doctor virtually every coin that they own ...>>
From this article by Doug Winter
Although the great strides that David Hall and Don Willis have made in addressing the coin doctoring problem merit tremendous praise, I hope that collectors try harder to persuade the PCGS to take stronger counter-measures.
Suggestions may be found:
The Formal Introduction of the PCGS ‘Coin Sniffer’ at the PCGS Luncheon
Defining Coin Doctoring and Dipping, Additions to the PCGS Lawsuit Against Alleged Coin Doctors – 09/08/10
The PCGS SecurePlus Program, Part 2: Reform