I haven't been here that long, but from what I've noticed people who aren't straightforward in their business dealings get outed pretty fast...IMO the forum policing itself works well and is efficient.
<< <i>I love you all but if I sell you a coin, pay me first and after your check clears I will send you the coin. >>
I have had people send coins before they received my check and I have had dealers wait until my check cleared. Either way is alright with me. Number one, I am not going to stiff anyone over a coin. I hope I am trusted but it is only wise business to be sure of payment before sending goods.
Ron
Edited to add: My favorite dealer has offered to send coins the day I call about them. I have told him in the past that since I am single and live by myself, I could not go to my reward and rest in peace if anything happened to me and I owed him money.
Collect for the love of the hobby, the beauty of the coins, and enjoy the ride.
<< <i>I have a very large circle and a low threshold for sending coins on approval, sending coins before checks have cleared, etc. The circle does narrow as the value goes up. >>
I guess this would be RYK's Cone of Trust? >>
I guess if we take this to its 3D conclusion, it would indeed be a cone. >>
The great thing about this place is that it's self policing. If a forum member cheats another forum member, a 300 post thread will be generated and the miscreant will be effectively ostracised.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I guess as a "buyer" of coins I would have to include everyone from whom I ever purchased a coin! It always slays me how buyers have to suck it up when it comes to trust.... at some point the seller has it all! The coin, my money, all the time in the world to mail the coin etc. ALTHOUGH, since I make all online purchases with a CC I guess I do retain some recourse!
What we've got here is failure to communicate.....
Ha, reminds me of the explanation that the preacher gave concerning the meaning of the ring in regards to the marriage/unification of Adam Sandler and Kevin James in the movie "I now prounonce you, Chuck and Larry". I now pronounce "PCGG forum and (fill in the blank with your name)". Geesh give me break, it like many so called secretive clubs, the fight club, the skeleton crew, the peyew crew, whi the he&* cares! I am in the George Thorogood crew, I collect alone, Lincoln, Jeffersons, Washintons, Kennedys, Ikes, Morgans, I prefer to be by myself...
Charter member of CA, Coinaholics Anonymous-6/7/2003 Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007 Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
I can care less about the circle of trust , just a click of sorts. I do though have several here that I would send items to without any concern. The same has been done for me as well. I have had with just a few exceptions great results with buying and selling and trades.
SamByrd----I consider you part of the circle of trust.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Quick COT story. I had shot a few PM's to a fellow I respected his opinion on copper. He always had intelligent and kind replies to others on the board. During PM conversation I learned he was attending a well known sale on the left coast that I could not make that year. I asked if he would bid on a few coins. He agreed and we won a smaller five figure amount of coins that evening. I paid for the coins and he mailed them to me upon receipt from the auction house. Now that was an extended amount of trust from someone that he had never met! I've sold some stuff on the BST and many times sent coins or silver out before payment without worries and had the same happen on a few purchases. I guess I've been fortunate to have traded with other trustworthy folks here. Good crowd.
I am a lawyer. From the work I have done over the years [including real estate, real estate finance and foreclosure] I view that anyone who borrows money is slimey and not to be trusted, even if they pay back the loan.Same goes for anyone who enters into a commercial transaction that does not involve a simultaneous exchange (i.e. buy a coin for cash at a coin show where the coin and cash are exchanged simultaneously). Any staggered performance built into a commercial transaction is slimey.
Thus I do not trust anyone.
Even myself
All kidding aside, I got so tired of dealing with loan deals that went south involving a total lack of payment and endless delay tactics on the part of borrowers that I became jaded into thinking that all borrowers are slimey. Then I realized that I was only seeing the 1 or 2% of loans that were non performing which ended up in litigation. I never saw the 98 or 99% of loans that peformed like clockwork, with no missed payments. I have to keep reminding myself that lawyers who have a commercial litigation practice are hired to clean up messy deals and that they never see the deals that perform flawlessly.
As far as trust on these forums, I trust many and would have no problem sending money or coins to them first. Some others I would not do so.
I've bought coins from a few members which were shipped the same day as I mailed a check to them; have also sold a few in the same fashion. I've never burned anyone here or in any facet of my life, and have never been burned by anyone on this forum.
I used to sell other things on ebay before selling coins. I had a lot more problems with people with those other things than with coins. I've found the numismatic community in whole to be the most honest out there. Of course there are rotten apples in every basket, but the percentage involved in coins has been a lot lower.
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
I have posted on this subject in a related sense several times, and I think my philosophy on this is already known.
I regard my connections here on the Boards as particularly important. The interconnected trust that many of us afford each other is very unique. Once you develop a longer-term relationship here (something that is not easy to say the least), it is possible to cultivate a reputation (call it the Circle of Trust). It is extremely difficult to develop, and extremely easy to lose. A few months ago, during a deal (yeah, it was a Doily thing), a fellow Board member sent a high end coin (heck with the coin, I wanted the DOILY !!!) and just PM'd that I could send payment 'whenever', as I was in his 'Circle of Trust'. Frankly, I went about my business that day with two feelings. One, I was flattered and realized what our transaction meant in a larger sense. Two, I would have moved Heaven and earth to make sure my payment to him was lightning quick and easy. In other words, there can never be any excuses when dealing with a fellow Board member. None. Ever.
I was raised by parents, and then school (USAFA) to believe in an honor code above all else. I see that continued here by many and hope that for all of us, we continually respect the thought that our word is our bond, our honor is above all else, and our desire to remain in the absolute trust of our fellow Board members is always foremost in our minds.
This is a good place. Let's do whatever we can to keep it that way.
Trust is somethig you earn. There is one member here I trust, and he knows who he is. There are a few here I'm sure I could trust down the road a bit...Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Comments
Here's the list I believe I got everyone.
agentjim007, ajia, alohagary, Blackhawk, blu62vette, Boom, Bikingnut, Bochiman, Barndog, Collectorcoins, Coppercolor, CB2597, clackamas, cinman14, ccmorgan, claychaser, Coll3ctor, Cameonut, crcrews, dcarr, DwaineO, ErrorsOnCoins, fivecents, guitarwes, greghansen, jgrinz, kryptonitecomics, lablover, Metalsman, Meltdown, MrSpud, mach19, notwilight, PipestonePete, robec, Russ, Stuart, STONE, Smittys, thebigeng, Tdec1000, VikingDude,
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>My post count is not high enough.......... >>
Not to worry RYK is working on a COT sniffer!
Is that a travel version of the BED sniffer? >>
If I reply to all the quotes, will my post count qualify me for the COT?
......I collect old stuff......
coin buyers we did need to score 'em
that an internet trade
might be easily made
the decision be best ad valorem
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>I love you all but if I sell you a coin, pay me first and after your check clears I will send you the coin. >>
I have had people send coins before they received my check and I have had dealers wait until my check cleared. Either way is alright with me. Number one, I am not going to stiff anyone over a coin. I hope I am trusted but it is only wise business to be sure of payment before sending goods.
Ron
Edited to add: My favorite dealer has offered to send coins the day I call about them. I have told him in the past that since I am single and live by myself, I could not go to my reward and rest in peace if anything happened to me and I owed him money.
<< <i>I used to keep my COT in my sigline until I was ordered to trim it. So it goes.
BST transactions: al410,ao39,Bajjerfan,Barndog,Batman23,Blackhawk,
Braddick,brokezorro,cohodk,CoinsAreNeat,Coinlearner,cucamongacoin,dizzyfoxx,DoubleEagle59,dpvilla,
dsessom,Ducky1100,EvilEmpire,eyoung429,greencopper,grip,habaraca,jakeblue,JonathanB,Kalshacon,
Keets,kryptonitecomics,KSteelheader,LasVegasTeddy,LeeG,
LucyBop,mach19,MANOFCOINS,MisterTicToc,
Nocerino18,Numisma,oldwestgold,oreville,papabear,PreTurb,
Rob41281,Robb,robkool,RPMHunter,RTS,
SeaEagleCoins,steelielee,Stone,sToner,smittys,tydye,USmoneylover,Walkerguy21D >>
Actually, that was A039...
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a very large circle and a low threshold for sending coins on approval, sending coins before checks have cleared, etc. The circle does narrow as the value goes up. >>
I guess this would be RYK's Cone of Trust?
I guess if we take this to its 3D conclusion, it would indeed be a cone.
Now everything is going 3-D!!!
https://www.smallcopperguy.com
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I guess as a "buyer" of coins I would have to include everyone from whom I ever purchased a coin! It always slays me how buyers have to suck it up when it comes to trust.... at some point the seller has it all! The coin, my money, all the time in the world to mail the coin etc. ALTHOUGH, since I make all online purchases with a CC I guess I do retain some recourse!
Successful BST xactions w/PCcoins, Drunner, Manofcoins, Rampage, docg, Poppee, RobKool, and MichealDixon.
Kewpie Doll award-10/29/2007
Successful BST transactions with Coinboy and Wondercoin.
items to without any concern. The same has been done for me as well. I have had with just a few exceptions great results with buying and selling and trades.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>There are a lot of people here who I would send a coin to, as long as his name isn't Russ!!
Yeah, but Marty, you send Russ pictures of the coins before you have even paid for them...is that smart?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The person that I don't trust is.... myself, when I see a pretty toned early commem for sale, I kind of go crazy
I had shot a few PM's to a fellow I respected his opinion on copper. He always had intelligent and kind replies to others on the board. During PM conversation I learned he was attending a well known sale on the left coast that I could not make that year. I asked if he would bid on a few coins. He agreed and we won a smaller five figure amount of coins that evening. I paid for the coins and he mailed them to me upon receipt from the auction house. Now that was an extended amount of trust from someone that he had never met!
I've sold some stuff on the BST and many times sent coins or silver out before payment without worries and had the same happen on a few purchases. I guess I've been fortunate to have traded with other trustworthy folks here. Good crowd.
Thus I do not trust anyone.
Even myself
All kidding aside, I got so tired of dealing with loan deals that went south involving a total lack of payment and endless delay tactics on the part of borrowers that I became jaded into thinking that all borrowers are slimey. Then I realized that I was only seeing the 1 or 2% of loans that were non performing which ended up in litigation. I never saw the 98 or 99% of loans that peformed like clockwork, with no missed payments. I have to keep reminding myself that lawyers who have a commercial litigation practice are hired to clean up messy deals and that they never see the deals that perform flawlessly.
As far as trust on these forums, I trust many and would have no problem sending money or coins to them first. Some others I would not do so.
I used to sell other things on ebay before selling coins. I had a lot more problems with people with those other things than with coins. I've found the numismatic community in whole to be the most honest out there. Of course there are rotten apples in every basket, but the percentage involved in coins has been a lot lower.
I regard my connections here on the Boards as particularly important. The interconnected trust that many of us afford each other is very unique. Once you develop a longer-term relationship here (something that is not easy to say the least), it is possible to cultivate a reputation (call it the Circle of Trust). It is extremely difficult to develop, and extremely easy to lose. A few months ago, during a deal (yeah, it was a Doily thing), a fellow Board member sent a high end coin (heck with the coin, I wanted the DOILY !!!) and just PM'd that I could send payment 'whenever', as I was in his 'Circle of Trust'. Frankly, I went about my business that day with two feelings. One, I was flattered and realized what our transaction meant in a larger sense. Two, I would have moved Heaven and earth to make sure my payment to him was lightning quick and easy. In other words, there can never be any excuses when dealing with a fellow Board member. None. Ever.
I was raised by parents, and then school (USAFA) to believe in an honor code above all else. I see that continued here by many and hope that for all of us, we continually respect the thought that our word is our bond, our honor is above all else, and our desire to remain in the absolute trust of our fellow Board members is always foremost in our minds.
This is a good place. Let's do whatever we can to keep it that way.
Drunner
(Hopefully and honorable Doily devotee)