Great info on REAL 1964-D Peace Dollars
GritsMan
Posts: 2,599 ✭✭✭
Just picked up RWB's A GUIDE BOOK OF PEACE DOLLARS, and was delighted to find an in-depth chapter on the entire history of the coin from idea to the melting pot. With all the hoopla around Dan Carr's piece, I thought many might be interested in this. I haven't even delved into the rest of the book, but the 64-D chapter alone is well worth the whole book.
Amazon link
Amazon link
Winner of the Coveted Devil Award June 8th, 2010
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It took over a year to locate and analyze the documents. The process flow diagram showing weights and quantities, and the affidavit were two unexpected documents. There was also more political deal making than I’d expected.
<< <i>Im' buying, thanks for the alert about the book. Is there a picture of a 1964 or did RWB determine if a picture exists? >>
No pictures exist.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>No pictures are currently KNOWN to exist. >>
But there ARE pictures of UFO's! Right?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>No pictures are currently KNOWN to exist. >>
But there ARE pictures of UFO's! Right? >>
Of course there are photos of UFOs... they're simply Unidentified Flying Objects. UFOs don't have to be flown by aliens.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No pictures are currently KNOWN to exist. >>
But there ARE pictures of UFO's! Right? >>
Of course there are photos of UFOs... they're simply Unidentified Flying Objects. UFOs don't have to be flown by aliens.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere. >>
Well be surprised then because the US Mint didn't take any cause if Roger couldn;t find em, then they don't exist.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Of course there are photos of UFOs... they're simply Unidentified Flying Objects. UFOs don't have to be flown by aliens. >>
Good point. In reality if someone flies an aircraft over an airspace after dark without filing a flight plan, it's "unidentified" since if you reported it to authorities, they would not have any clue what was flying overhead at that time - and you couldn't get an adequate visual to confirm what it was with certainty.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No pictures are currently KNOWN to exist. >>
But there ARE pictures of UFO's! Right? >>
Of course there are photos of UFOs... they're simply Unidentified Flying Objects. UFOs don't have to be flown by aliens.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere. >>
The Mint had two of them in their possession for several years. It is possible that somewhere along the line somebody said "Gee, Vern! Mebbe we had aughter take some stereopticons of these boogers afore we melts 'em!!!!!!"
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No pictures are currently KNOWN to exist. >>
But there ARE pictures of UFO's! Right? >>
Of course there are photos of UFOs... they're simply Unidentified Flying Objects. UFOs don't have to be flown by aliens.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere. >>
Well be surprised then because the US Mint didn't take any cause if Roger couldn;t find em, then they don't exist. >>
That's right.......the Mint would never, ever lie and say they didn't have them!!!!!!!
1) Most government officials knew that they shouldn't be minting these things long before they were actually minted--and for a variety of reasons.
2) The antipathy toward coin collectors was intense and the last thing the Mint wanted to do was create an instant rarity for someone to get rich or famous off of.
3) The record-keeping was quantitative, not qualitative. They may have melted the right "poundage", but no one actually counted the number of Peace dollars melted.
Personally, after reading everything, it seems fairly likely that one or more of these dollars exists, not to mention photographs. Whomever owns one, though, is in a bind and can't ever reveal it. Maybe with the current revolutions in the Middle East, one of the current kings' coin collections will come up for public auction soon and...who knows?
It is possible I may be thinking of the 1964 or 1964-D Kennedy halves? But I do remember thinking this was something special. But then again the Kennedy halves were very exciting as well when first released.
It was probably the most popular coin in the world when issued.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I seem to remember a newspaper clip with picture of LBJ holding a 1964-D Peace Dollar and proudly showing it to the photograpers.
It is possible I may be thinking of the 1964 or 1964-D Kennedy halves? But I do remember thinking this was something special. But then again the Kennedy halves were very exciting as well when first released.
It was probably the most popular coin in the world when issued. >>
We discussed this in a previous thread, and decided that that LBJ picture was probably with a 1964-D half dollar.
TD
<< <i> Maybe with the current revolutions in the Middle East, one of the current kings' coin collections will come up for public auction soon and...who knows? >>
Every story about "so and so has one" ended in vapor. Likewise for stories of someone having a photo of the coin. Everyone I talked with was sincere in their recollections, but anecdotes have a way of transforming from speculation into "fact," which only further confuses things.
However, there were many ways that one or more could have left the Denver Mint. They were officially tracked only as bullion, which left big holes in accounting for the pieces struck.
<< <i>I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere. >>
I'd be very surprised if a pic of a real 1964 Peace Dollar showed up after 47 years.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd be surprised if there wasn't a photo of a 1964 Peace dollar somewhere. >>
I'd be very surprised if a pic of a real 1964 Peace Dollar showed up after 47 years. >>
Then one of us is certain to be surprised; unless it shows up after 48 years!
The fact is they were produced by the mint there for they are not fantisy coins.
those produced by Carr without an overstamp would be considered counterfit.
The mint may have melted the right weight of the dollars, but all were the 1964-D!
<< <i>I still believe that one or more 1964-D peace dollars produced by the US Mint exist today.
The fact is they were produced by the mint there for they are not fantisy coins.
those produced by Carr without an overstamp would be considered counterfit.
The mint may have melted the right weight of the dollars, but all were the 1964-D! >>
I am getting dizzy from going round and round so much.
...roger wrote a fine book. i enjoyed it very much and i'm glad i bought a copy. i'm just wondering if he'll
show his appreciation by putting my name on his yacht that i helped him buy.
(Seriously, all the folks who do research invest much more time than could ever be compensated by money. There's a lot of satisfaction of learning new things and in increasing the numismatic knowledge base. I especially like the recent books "Treasure in the Cellar" and "The First US Mint" by forum member Coinosaurus. Lots of work went into those and they greatly expand our understanding of gold hoards during the 30s and the first US Mint buildings.)
<< <i>Please send your check for the yacht. Then I will put your name on it!
(Seriously, all the folks who do research invest much more time than could ever be compensated by money. There's a lot of satisfaction of learning new things and in increasing the numismatic knowledge base. I especially like the recent books "Treasure in the Cellar" and "The First US Mint" by forum member Coinosaurus. Lots of work went into those and they greatly expand our understanding of gold hoards during the 30s and the first US Mint buildings.) >>
Plus you get to meet all the HOT single librarians!
let's get it up over the 700,000th, most popular!
...
<< <i>Barnes & Nobel did NOT have it, and told me it was unavailable. I told them it was available on Amazon. They just shrugged. And THAT pi**ed me off. Cheers, RickO >>
It's good to see the Nobel Peace Prize committee is investing their money wisely!
<< <i>Barnes & Nobel did NOT have it, and told me it was unavailable. I told them it was available on Amazon. They just shrugged. And THAT pi**ed me off. Cheers, RickO >>
This is no surprise at all. Big chain stores have for years been filled with people who know almost nothing about books, and care nothing about what they have or do not have in inventory. Their standard response is "We can order it", though it sounds like you didn't even get that, Ricko. That's why I always try to support my smaller independent bookstores. Unfortunately, most independent stores are too small to carry a title like this, but at least they will be interested in you as a customer and get the book ordered very quickly. Of course, I DID order my copy from Amazon, so I'm a big hypocrite there!
<< <i>RE: photos of a real 1964-D dollar.
Every story about "so and so has one" ended in vapor. Likewise for stories of someone having a photo of the coin. Everyone I talked with was sincere in their recollections, but anecdotes have a way of transforming from speculation into "fact," which only further confuses things.
However, there were many ways that one or more could have left the Denver Mint. They were officially tracked only as bullion, which left big holes in accounting for the pieces struck. >>
also of interest to me was the almost certainty that the '64 was not going to look exactly like a "regular Peace" . i only had time last night to puruse the chapter, though, yet i know it will be a very good read. thanks again for your considerable effort and research.
<< <i>There were many Old Masters paintings stolen and later sold by Nazis (and likely some enterprising soldiers) who have not surfaced in a lot longer than those peace dollars have been around...does anyone doubt their existence? >>
As long as people continue to believe it was a conspiracy to kill President John F. Kennedy back in 1963 and the government was behind 911 in 2001, along with blind faith, believing fairies are pushing up daisies out of the soil and a boy with magical beans grew a large stalk, there will be believers genuine 1964 Peace dollar exist.
After nearly 50 years no one has seen one but heck. Why cloud our judgements with science and facts? The self-appointed burning in the bosom belief system is so much more satisfying.
<< <i>
<< <i>There were many Old Masters paintings stolen and later sold by Nazis (and likely some enterprising soldiers) who have not surfaced in a lot longer than those peace dollars have been around...does anyone doubt their existence? >>
As long as people continue to believe it was a conspiracy to kill President John F. Kennedy back in 1963 and the government was behind 911 in 2001, along with blind faith, believing fairies are pushing up daisies out of the soil and a boy with magical beans grew a large stalk, there will be believers genuine 1964 Peace dollar exist.
After nearly 50 years no one has seen one but heck. Why cloud our judgements with science and facts? The self-appointed burning in the bosom belief system is so much more satisfying. >>
You mentioned "facts". The fact is, that if someone has a a genuine 1964-D Peace Dollar, it would not be in his or her best interest to reveal it. That doesn't require a belief in any type of conspiracy or blind faith.
In addition to that, if anyone has seen one, you wouldn't necessarily be aware of it, would you?
They don't.
You are applying your religious convictions to coins. Coins can be seen, if real.
<< <i>People are terrible at keeping secrets. Someone, anyone by now would have seen a genuine 1964 Peace dollar if they existed.
They don't.
You are applying your religious convictions to coins. Coins can be seen, if real. >>
Maybe a number of people HAVE seen one, but YOU don't happen to be aware of it. And you have no idea what my religious convictions are.
By your reasoning, the 10 Langbord Saints which surfaced, didn't exist either. After all, there was no proof of their existence for more than 50 years - a period of time which is greater than the number of years which have elapsed since the 1964-D Peace Dollar were produced.
<< <i>
<< <i>People are terrible at keeping secrets. Someone, anyone by now would have seen a genuine 1964 Peace dollar if they existed.
They don't.
You are applying your religious convictions to coins. Coins can be seen, if real. >>
Maybe a number of people HAVE seen one, but YOU don't happen to be aware of it. And you have no idea what my religious convictions are.
By your reasoning, the 10 Langbord Saints which surfaced, didn't exist either. After all, there was no proof of their existence for more than 50 years - a period of time which is greater than the number of years which have elapsed since the 1964-D Peace Dollar were produced. >>
Don't confuse him with the facts, Mark. He knows everything already.
<< <i>
<< <i>People are terrible at keeping secrets. Someone, anyone by now would have seen a genuine 1964 Peace dollar if they existed.
They don't.
You are applying your religious convictions to coins. Coins can be seen, if real. >>
Maybe a number of people HAVE seen one, but YOU don't happen to be aware of it. And you have no idea what my religious convictions are.
By your reasoning, the 10 Langbord Saints which surfaced, didn't exist either. After all, there was no proof of their existence for more than 50 years - a period of time which is greater than the number of years which have elapsed since the 1964-D Peace Dollar were produced. >>
Do you see any distinction between "keeping things quiet" from fifty to a hundred years ago and today? We live in an age of high tech information gathering and sharing that is unprecedented. People are tweeting every little detail of every menusha for crying out loud. That was not available a few decades ago.
We live in the arena where Charlie Sheen is headline news on the networks and websites exposing all infractions of everybody and everything is all the rage. You, Mark speak of an era where most people lived and died within fifty miles of where they were born and news traveled slowly, if at all.
Your example of the Langbord Saints is weak because of this. Before the information age they were a secret but you proved my point: In this day- today, they are not.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>People are terrible at keeping secrets. Someone, anyone by now would have seen a genuine 1964 Peace dollar if they existed.
They don't.
You are applying your religious convictions to coins. Coins can be seen, if real. >>
Maybe a number of people HAVE seen one, but YOU don't happen to be aware of it. And you have no idea what my religious convictions are.
By your reasoning, the 10 Langbord Saints which surfaced, didn't exist either. After all, there was no proof of their existence for more than 50 years - a period of time which is greater than the number of years which have elapsed since the 1964-D Peace Dollar were produced. >>
Do you see any distinction between "keeping things quiet" from fifty to a hundred years ago and today? We live in an age of high tech information gathering and sharing that is unprecedented. People are tweeting every little detail of every menusha for crying out loud. That was not available a few decades ago.
We live in the arena where Charlie Sheen is headline news on the networks and websites exposing all infractions of everybody and everything is all the rage. You, Mark speak of an era where most people lived and died within fifty miles of where they were born and news traveled slowly, if at all.
Your example of the Langbord Saints is weak because of this. Before the information age they were a secret but you proved my point: In this day- today, they are not. >>
It sounds as if you might have your eras mixed up.
The 10 Langbord Saints only surfaced in (approximately) 2004. So your point about the high tech information age (and secrets supposedly not being able to be kept) would apply to them, essentially the same as it would to any 1964-D Peace Dollars. And anyone following the legal proceedings, would certainly be discouraged from revealing anything about having seen or owning a 1964-D Peace Dollar.
The Saints didn't appear until roughly 70 years after they were produced, with no one reportedly having seen them for more than 50 years, if at all. Any 1964-D Peace Dollars that might exist, would not be nearly that old. So it doesn't make sense to say they can't exist, merely by virtue of the fact that, to your knowledge none have been seen. If there were no evidence that they had ever been produced, that would be an entirely different matter.
As I have nothing left to add to this discussion I will bow out.
<< <i>Captain's pedantic trolling aside, it is a pleasure to join you in a friendly debate on this issue. Mark, you strike me as a bright, educated dealer and I've enjoyed this time together.
As I have nothing left to add to this discussion I will bow out. >>
Thank you. "Friendly"? You mean to tell me that haven't heard from my attorney and thugs yet?