<< <i>ebay is effectively nothing more than a middle-man who prevents the buyer and seller from exchanging information. They've gone out of their way to make it more difficult for the buyer and seller to communicate with each other, while at the same time raising seller fees and failing (not just failing, but pathetically failing miserably in 100% of cases) to protect sellers from online scams. In fact, I'll take it so far as to say that ebay itself is a willing participant and accomplice to scams that victimize only sellers, and never buyers.
When it first started, ebay was little more than an online meeting place, a message board to exchange information. Aside from hosting fees, there was really no cost involved for them. Now it has become the big bully on the playground, telling everyone what to do and how to do it. They double-dip by forcing everyone to use their payment processor, and this is on top of the ridiculous fees they charge sellers for what amounts to nothing more than a little bandwidth, which I might mention has gotten much cheaper since the early days of ebay.
Back in the good old days, it worked because most sellers were honest, and feedback meant something. Now it only works (and I use that term loosely) because most buyers are honest, as buyers can get away with everything, and sellers can get away with nothing. This is fundamentally unfair, as the buyers have nothing invested and aren't taking any risk, especially with their ability to file SNAD complaints and credit card chargebacks. The sellers are the ones who have to sit on inventory and hope they can sell it without being ripped off by thieving buyers, and before the market collapses in whatever product they're trying to move. The whole thing is ass backwards.
When it was truly user-to-user, it was a great site. In the past 10 years, it has gotten way too big for its own good, and it has effectively become a faceless, institutionalized multi-national corporation with a defacto monopoly that has taken on a life of its own. I say f**k 'em! And yes, I will continue to use the service, because in this environment, I have little other choice. Just because they're the only game in town doesn't make them any damn good. >>
Morning,
Well, Well said
Exactly how I feel, Does E-Bay/Paypal deserve 20% of my Sales....Plus $50 per month for the Store plus another $30-$50 per month in listing fees.......I say Not, Not for a service that I use that I spend as much time making sure as a Seller that I don't get ripped off as I do actually conducting my Business. We haven't even added the costs I incur to try and give myself insurance that I don't get scammed. I spend way above the 20% that they get because their service forces me too or I would lose to their one sided "Buyers Dream" SNAD & INR Scammers!
I do, and Will Continue to, take as much of my Business off of their site as I can.........Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
my moral compass spins like a propeller beanie in a tornado.
as to the issue of receiving "gifted" funds, i hereby declare myself GUILTY and offer no excuses, because i didn't feel guilty about it at the time.
some years ago i feasted on the pleasure of low eBay fees and unrelenting customer support, so why go anywhere else? it worked out fine.
i still like eBay for a couple of reasons.....as a seller, it allows me to offer whatever "stuff" i don't want to keep, and if moving higher dollar items on their site has become too much of a risk, well then i'll just sell as much cheap goods as possible and be glad when they're gone.
i doubt that i'll ever run out of "stuff".
as for being on the buyer side, the effectiveness of the current regulations which protect my personal interests simply cannot be overlooked....i just completed my 50th, yes FIFTIETH Not As Described claim from the past 18 months, and i've earned the right to be refunded in full every single time.....if a seller sends me something which is not what i purchased, damn straight i'm sending it back and damn straight i appreciate the protection which wasn't afforded me a few years ago when all i did was sell.
i guess i wouldn't take the time to fight the monster, but i would take steps to circumvent its grasp if necessary, after all it's just business.....i don't know what eBay or PayPal or Corporate America has to look out for, but i got mouths to feed and i need every frikkin extra penny.
This is a partially relevant repost from another current thread.
..................................
<< You can always pay the price and then negotiate the fee portion as a gift. You get protection and the seller is not out all the paypal fee. I think this is the best way in these cases. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////
That sounds like a plan, but using it could allow a crooked seller to exploit a loophole in the PP UA/TOS.
To be eligible for PP Purchase Protection, a buyer must:
Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible for Purchase Protection.
The crooked seller could invoke that language to convince PP to disalow the complaining buyer's claim. ANY split-payment can, technically, void the Purchase Protection.
Generally, PP does not apportion relative blame when BOTH the buyer/seller have unclean hands in a transaction gone bad; they can simply wash their hands of the issue and deny the claim.
Buyers that cooperate with or encourage sellers' efforts to subvert PP's fee-scheme are always at risk of losing prospective "protection."
Moving buyers off of EBAY following an initial sale is a well accepted method of doing biznez on EBAY. This is easily done with coupons and flyers/mailings to the buyer.
EBAY is a bonafide player in the FIRST sale, but subsequent sales belong to the seller, if he can capture the customer as his own and move that buyer to a new venue.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>Moving buyers off of EBAY following an initial sale is a well accepted method of doing biznez on EBAY. This is easily done with coupons and flyers/mailings to the buyer.
EBAY is a bonafide player in the FIRST sale, but subsequent sales belong to the seller, if he can capture the customer as his own and move that buyer to a new venue. >>
Exactamundo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
Actually Collect Non Sport, but am just so full of myself I post all over the place !!!!!!!
As a seller, I cannot force a buyer to take a deal off-ebay. The buyers are selecting that option in increasing numbers. Everyone involved is acting their own self-interest, ebay, paypal, the buyer and seller.
Also, the "life before ebay" argument is getting old. It's 2011, a lot of things have changed. I know the hobby has benefited from ebay, but if it wasn't for ebay, someone else would have done it.
Comments
Hey, my car won't be getting better mileage.
Exxon/Mobil is a big company.
If 2% of it's customers do it I'd be surprised, I'm sure they can take the hit.
<< <i>ebay is effectively nothing more than a middle-man who prevents the buyer and seller from exchanging information. They've gone out of their way to make it more difficult for the buyer and seller to communicate with each other, while at the same time raising seller fees and failing (not just failing, but pathetically failing miserably in 100% of cases) to protect sellers from online scams. In fact, I'll take it so far as to say that ebay itself is a willing participant and accomplice to scams that victimize only sellers, and never buyers.
When it first started, ebay was little more than an online meeting place, a message board to exchange information. Aside from hosting fees, there was really no cost involved for them. Now it has become the big bully on the playground, telling everyone what to do and how to do it. They double-dip by forcing everyone to use their payment processor, and this is on top of the ridiculous fees they charge sellers for what amounts to nothing more than a little bandwidth, which I might mention has gotten much cheaper since the early days of ebay.
Back in the good old days, it worked because most sellers were honest, and feedback meant something. Now it only works (and I use that term loosely) because most buyers are honest, as buyers can get away with everything, and sellers can get away with nothing. This is fundamentally unfair, as the buyers have nothing invested and aren't taking any risk, especially with their ability to file SNAD complaints and credit card chargebacks. The sellers are the ones who have to sit on inventory and hope they can sell it without being ripped off by thieving buyers, and before the market collapses in whatever product they're trying to move. The whole thing is ass backwards.
When it was truly user-to-user, it was a great site. In the past 10 years, it has gotten way too big for its own good, and it has effectively become a faceless, institutionalized multi-national corporation with a defacto monopoly that has taken on a life of its own. I say f**k 'em! And yes, I will continue to use the service, because in this environment, I have little other choice. Just because they're the only game in town doesn't make them any damn good. >>
Morning,
Well, Well said
Exactly how I feel, Does E-Bay/Paypal deserve 20% of my Sales....Plus $50 per month for the Store plus another $30-$50 per month in listing fees.......I say Not, Not for a service that I use that I spend as much time making sure as a Seller that I don't get ripped off as I do actually conducting my Business. We haven't even added the costs I incur to try and give myself insurance that I don't get scammed. I spend way above the 20% that they get because their service forces me too or I would lose to their one sided "Buyers Dream" SNAD & INR Scammers!
I do, and Will Continue to, take as much of my Business off of their site as I can.........Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
as to the issue of receiving "gifted" funds, i hereby declare myself GUILTY and offer no excuses, because i didn't feel guilty about it at the time.
some years ago i feasted on the pleasure of low eBay fees and unrelenting customer support, so why go anywhere else? it worked out fine.
i still like eBay for a couple of reasons.....as a seller, it allows me to offer whatever "stuff" i don't want to keep, and if moving higher dollar items on their site has become too much of a risk, well then i'll just sell as much cheap goods as possible and be glad when they're gone.
i doubt that i'll ever run out of "stuff".
as for being on the buyer side, the effectiveness of the current regulations which protect my personal interests simply cannot be overlooked....i just completed my 50th, yes FIFTIETH Not As Described claim from the past 18 months, and i've earned the right to be refunded in full every single time.....if a seller sends me something which is not what i purchased, damn straight i'm sending it back and damn straight i appreciate the protection which wasn't afforded me a few years ago when all i did was sell.
i guess i wouldn't take the time to fight the monster, but i would take steps to circumvent its grasp if necessary, after all it's just business.....i don't know what eBay or PayPal or Corporate America has to look out for, but i got mouths to feed and i need every frikkin extra penny.
This is a partially relevant repost from another current thread.
..................................
<< You can always pay the price and then negotiate the fee portion as a gift. You get protection and the seller is not out all the paypal fee. I think this is the best way in these cases. >>
/////////////////////////////////////////
That sounds like a plan, but using it could allow a crooked seller
to exploit a loophole in the PP UA/TOS.
To be eligible for PP Purchase Protection, a buyer must:
Pay for the full amount of the item with one payment. Items purchased with multiple payments – like a deposit followed by a final payment – are not eligible for Purchase Protection.
The crooked seller could invoke that language to convince PP to
disalow the complaining buyer's claim. ANY split-payment can,
technically, void the Purchase Protection.
Generally, PP does not apportion relative blame when BOTH the
buyer/seller have unclean hands in a transaction gone bad; they
can simply wash their hands of the issue and deny the claim.
Buyers that cooperate with or encourage sellers' efforts to subvert
PP's fee-scheme are always at risk of losing prospective "protection."
..................................................
Moving buyers off of EBAY following an initial sale is a well accepted
method of doing biznez on EBAY. This is easily done with coupons
and flyers/mailings to the buyer.
EBAY is a bonafide player in the FIRST sale, but subsequent sales
belong to the seller, if he can capture the customer as his own and
move that buyer to a new venue.
<< <i>Moving buyers off of EBAY following an initial sale is a well accepted
method of doing biznez on EBAY. This is easily done with coupons
and flyers/mailings to the buyer.
EBAY is a bonafide player in the FIRST sale, but subsequent sales
belong to the seller, if he can capture the customer as his own and
move that buyer to a new venue. >>
Exactamundo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YeeHah
Neil
Also, the "life before ebay" argument is getting old. It's 2011, a lot of things have changed. I know the hobby has benefited from ebay, but if it wasn't for ebay, someone else would have done it.
<< <i>if it wasn't for ebay, someone else would have done it. >>
Not sure I understand that logic, but hey, if it justifies your actions run with it.