Big Ebay seller wants to do transaction off Ebay
mike22y2k
Posts: 325 ✭
The biggest change in the hobby for me this last year has been the requests to do business off of Ebay . It seems that everyone wants to bypass Ebay.
I need some advice from the experts out there.
A big Ebay seller wants to do a transaction off of Ebay and just go through PayPal. The amount would be for $400 for 2 cards that he has listed on Ebay but they end tomorrow.
I'm kind of surprised by the offer but this is a big seller that most know of. My question is if I pay with Paypal and the cards never show can I ever get my money back? If I have a bad experience on a Ebay transaction at least I can blast them on the feedback.
Thanks for any help out there.
Mike
I need some advice from the experts out there.
A big Ebay seller wants to do a transaction off of Ebay and just go through PayPal. The amount would be for $400 for 2 cards that he has listed on Ebay but they end tomorrow.
I'm kind of surprised by the offer but this is a big seller that most know of. My question is if I pay with Paypal and the cards never show can I ever get my money back? If I have a bad experience on a Ebay transaction at least I can blast them on the feedback.
Thanks for any help out there.
Mike
Working my way to #1 1979 Topps Hockey
I know it's going to be tough!
I know it's going to be tough!
0
Comments
All other ways are ok
Steve
I know it's going to be tough!
If he wants you to pay him as gift or as money owed to him do not do the transaction.
Also use a credit card to fund the payment so you can fallback on a charge back if Paypal doesn't protect you if something goes wrong.
They happen all the time (I do more $200+ transactions off of eBay than on eBay) to avoid fees and getting the buyer a better price.
I would only do a direct Paypal transaction, that what it really is, with ebay sellers with really good feedback (500+, no recent negs). It shouldn't be normal practice for most sellers, but if it helps save me a few bucks, why not?
<< <i>A big Ebay seller wants to do a transaction off of Ebay and just go through PayPal. >>
<< <i>My question is if I pay with Paypal and the cards never show can I ever get my money back? If I have a bad experience on a Ebay transaction at least I can blast them on the feedback. >>
No offense, but as an infrequent seller with around 600 feedback over 13 years, this drives me crazy. So many buyers have swallowed gallons of the ebay kool aid that tells them to never do a transaction "outside of ebay."
Truth is, if you do what others have said, use PayPal by sending funds for "goods," and fund the payment with a credit card, you are 100% protected. The ONLY difference is you can't leave ebay feedback, but you can still file INS or SNAD with PayPal and you can always file a chargeback with your credit card.
~WalterSobchak
<< <i> No offense, but as an infrequent seller with around 600 feedback over 13 years, this drives me crazy. So many buyers have swallowed gallons of the ebay kool aid that tells them to never do a transaction "outside of ebay."
>>
As a buyer and seller on ebay. I offer an off-ebay discount if I sense that the buyer is serious about buying the card. A few have rejected doing it off ebay, but when I explain the fee structure and rationale, they almost always agree. I am polite about it and the buyers actually seem very thankful.
Most buyers don't realize that ebay doesn't really do anything to protect the buyer, it is Paypal that does the work.
Checks and money orders worked quite well for the longest time...and in the age of Paypal scams, I am no longer sure one can claim which is safer.
Heck you can send a guy a $1,000 via Paypal or via a check...and either way he could just send you an empty package and you will still be screwed...if that is the sellers intent to screw you.
As others have said above, it is all about reputation with the trasnaction.
But then again, there is always a first time when doing a screw job
If you want to be 100% safe on a transaction, put your money back into your pocket. Otherwise, just use common sense, know as much as you can about the person you are buying from, and then make an educated guess/decision.
<< <i>Ebay just brings the two together. Why should they be paid for that service? >>
+1
<< <i>Without figuring PayPal fees into the sale, if you hit a $425.00 BIN on Ebay, the seller gets to keep $396.50 after Ebay fees. You were obviously trying to negotiate to pay the lowest price, but you don't understand that a $400.00 on Ebay offer means $377.00 after Ebay fees to the seller. You want to pay $400, the seller wants to get $400, and the only thing keeping you both from getting what you want is the Ebay fees. If it's a big seller that everyone here knows as a good seller there's no risk to you to taking it off Ebay. >>
Maybe several years ago this was accurate. The fees have increased dramatically since then.
<< <i>
<< <i>Without figuring PayPal fees into the sale, if you hit a $425.00 BIN on Ebay, the seller gets to keep $396.50 after Ebay fees. You were obviously trying to negotiate to pay the lowest price, but you don't understand that a $400.00 on Ebay offer means $377.00 after Ebay fees to the seller. You want to pay $400, the seller wants to get $400, and the only thing keeping you both from getting what you want is the Ebay fees. If it's a big seller that everyone here knows as a good seller there's no risk to you to taking it off Ebay. >>
Maybe several years ago this was accurate. The fees have increased dramatically since then. >>
For BIN, the cost is 12.0% of the initial $50.00, plus 6.0% of the remaining final sale price balance ($50.01 to $1,000.00).
In this example, it is $425 - ($50 * .12) - ($375 * .06) = $425 - $6 - 22.50 = $396.50 exactly. It's actually another fitty cent to list, to make the total an even $396.
>
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<< <i>I just can't believe how many people want to use the services that ebay offers, but don't want to pay for those services. You definitely want to list your item on ebay so that buyers can find it, but once you get the buyer, you want to work around the fees. If it wasn't for ebay, the buyer and seller would have never found each other. In my opinion, these off-ebay transactions are going to be the next big thing that hurts ebay. I buy many "buy-it-now" items, and I am surprised how many sellers suggest that we take the deal off of ebay. I won't do that, and most the time end up not buying from them. Like I have said many times before, if you don't like ebay, for whatever reason, please take your business elsewhere. But please don't use ebay's services without paying for them. >>
Just for the record, I agree with you 100%, and I hope the sarcasm in WinPitcher's post and my "+1" follow-up did not go undetected. The same goes for the use of PayPal gift. People want to be able to advertise for free and get paid securely and easily for free. Heck, some people want to run businesses and not pay taxes on their income. The fees are always "for everyone else".
<< <i>I just can't believe how many people want to use the services that ebay offers, but don't want to pay for those services. You definitely want to list your item on ebay so that buyers can find it, but once you get the buyer, you want to work around the fees. If it wasn't for ebay, the buyer and seller would have never found each other. In my opinion, these off-ebay transactions are going to be the next big thing that hurts ebay. I buy many "buy-it-now" items, and I am surprised how many sellers suggest that we take the deal off of ebay. I won't do that, and most the time end up not buying from them. Like I have said many times before, if you don't like ebay, for whatever reason, please take your business elsewhere. But please don't use ebay's services without paying for them. >>
Spoken like a true ebay shareholder. When ebay's fees were reasonable, around 5-7 years ago, it wasn't such a big deal. However all they have done is find ways to increase fees and as a seller, I don't see what "improved" services they have provided.
BIN used to have a cap for $50 for fees, which made it a good venue for high dollar cards. However ebay realized that they could jack more fees by switching it around and now there is no cap on BIN fees. Again only a small percentage of my sales ever go off ebay, but I do offer it as a way to help reduce the buyer cost.
If you don't like saving money and giving it to ebay, then that is your right. However ebay wouldn't be anything without the sellers as well, who really end up taking the real risk.
<< <i>Think of where we would be without Ebay and Paypal. >>
We would have Yahoo, MSFT, or Google running an auction/payment service. You really think ebay is the only one that can run an auction site. Their only advantage is that the founder was smart enough to be the first.
It's not about liking or disliking Ebay, or avoiding fees. In the $425-$400-$377 example I gave the seller really didn't benefit at all. The buyer benefited by saving $25 on the card. To the seller it makes very little difference if you hit the BIN at $425 or take it off-line and send him $400. He gets pretty much the exact same money, you're the person who benefited from taking it off-line. If you want to click a button and pay $425, that's great. If all you want to pay is $400 and the seller can only do that for you if it's taken off-line, then why not do it if the seller's reputation is not an issue.
<< <i> Spoken like a true ebay shareholder. >>
No, IMO it was spoken like someone who does NOT want to have to pay even higher fees
because certain people want to circumvent their fair share.
Steve
<< <i>10% is not a crazy price to sit in front of your computer and sell. If you have a store or it is your main income it is still a small overhead to reach out to many buyers. >>
I agree, and you will not get anywhere near the amount of "eyes" on your product that eBay gives you for the 10% they charge.
When it first started, ebay was little more than an online meeting place, a message board to exchange information. Aside from hosting fees, there was really no cost involved for them. Now it has become the big bully on the playground, telling everyone what to do and how to do it. They double-dip by forcing everyone to use their payment processor, and this is on top of the ridiculous fees they charge sellers for what amounts to nothing more than a little bandwidth, which I might mention has gotten much cheaper since the early days of ebay.
Back in the good old days, it worked because most sellers were honest, and feedback meant something. Now it only works (and I use that term loosely) because most buyers are honest, as buyers can get away with everything, and sellers can get away with nothing. This is fundamentally unfair, as the buyers have nothing invested and aren't taking any risk, especially with their ability to file SNAD complaints and credit card chargebacks. The sellers are the ones who have to sit on inventory and hope they can sell it without being ripped off by thieving buyers, and before the market collapses in whatever product they're trying to move. The whole thing is ass backwards.
When it was truly user-to-user, it was a great site. In the past 10 years, it has gotten way too big for its own good, and it has effectively become a faceless, institutionalized multi-national corporation with a defacto monopoly that has taken on a life of its own. I say f**k 'em! And yes, I will continue to use the service, because in this environment, I have little other choice. Just because they're the only game in town doesn't make them any damn good.
<< <i>
<< <i>10% is not a crazy price to sit in front of your computer and sell. If you have a store or it is your main income it is still a small overhead to reach out to many buyers. >>
I agree, and you will not get anywhere near the amount of "eyes" on your product that eBay gives you for the 10% they charge. >>
Also ebay wouldn't have as much traffic if there weren't any sellers, like me and the rest of this board, putting our items up for sale and taking the risk. In the current environment, ebay takes virtually ZERO risk, it is now completely on the seller. The new rules, as someone alluded to, has shifted the risk entirely on the seller. As a small time seller, I don't have the volume to offset one or two significant bad transactions.
Yahoo tried the auction game a few years ago. Despite being one of the most visited sites in the world, Yahoo auctions died. I used to list on both and the main difference was the depth of sellers on ebay was far greater than Yahoo. The buyers moved to where the sellers were.
Please pardon me if I don't pray at the ebay alter. Ebay was built on small sellers and nothing they have done over the past few years has helped the little guy.
My moral compass only points in the direction of me and
my associates.
But, ripping-off EBAY/PayPal is both dishonest and petty.
NOBODY can be as hard on EBAY/PP as I can, but using
their service and burning them for their fees is not a good
defense against the evil empire. Scamming them is not
even good retaliation.
The correct way to "hurt" EBAY is to NOT use their services.
................
<< <i>ebay is effectively nothing more than a middle-man who prevents the buyer and seller from exchanging information. They've gone out of their way to make it more difficult for the buyer and seller to communicate with each other, while at the same time raising seller fees and failing (not just failing, but pathetically failing miserably in 100% of cases) to protect sellers from online scams. In fact, I'll take it so far as to say that ebay itself is a willing participant and accomplice to scams that victimize only sellers, and never buyers.
When it first started, ebay was little more than an online meeting place, a message board to exchange information. Aside from hosting fees, there was really no cost involved for them. Now it has become the big bully on the playground, telling everyone what to do and how to do it. They double-dip by forcing everyone to use their payment processor, and this is on top of the ridiculous fees they charge sellers for what amounts to nothing more than a little bandwidth, which I might mention has gotten much cheaper since the early days of ebay.
Back in the good old days, it worked because most sellers were honest, and feedback meant something. Now it only works (and I use that term loosely) because most buyers are honest, as buyers can get away with everything, and sellers can get away with nothing. This is fundamentally unfair, as the buyers have nothing invested and aren't taking any risk, especially with their ability to file SNAD complaints and credit card chargebacks. The sellers are the ones who have to sit on inventory and hope they can sell it without being ripped off by thieving buyers, and before the market collapses in whatever product they're trying to move. The whole thing is ass backwards.
When it was truly user-to-user, it was a great site. In the past 10 years, it has gotten way too big for its own good, and it has effectively become a faceless, institutionalized multi-national corporation with a defacto monopoly that has taken on a life of its own. I say f**k 'em! And yes, I will continue to use the service, because in this environment, I have little other choice. Just because they're the only game in town doesn't make them any damn good. >>
You agree to ebay's terms of service (as well as PayPal's I might add) every time you sell on ebay. By arranging sales outside of ebay with buyers you met via ebay, and by using services such as PayPal gift, you sir, by definition, are also a scammer. You're just scamming at a level that is acceptable to you because in your mind, ebay charges too much. At the end of the day, that is what this all boils down to.
<< <i>My moral compass only points in the direction of me and
my associates.
But, ripping-off EBAY/PayPal is both dishonest and petty.
NOBODY can be as hard on EBAY/PP as I can, but using
their service and burning them for their fees is not a good
defense against the evil empire. Scamming them is not
even good retaliation.
The correct way to "hurt" EBAY is to NOT use their services.
................ >>
Conducting a transaction off the grid is hardly the same as running up a high balance of seller fees and then not paying.
<< <i>You agree to ebay's terms of service (as well as PayPal's I might add) every time you sell on ebay. By arranging sales outside of ebay with buyers you met via ebay, and by using services such as PayPal gift, you sir, by definition, are also a scammer. You're just scamming at a level that is acceptable to you because in your mind, ebay charges too much. At the end of the day, that is what this all boils down to. >>
As usual, someone is able to come along and summarize a complicated, multi-layered problem and boil it down to a simple black and white issue in a few short sentences. Thank you, oh so much, for sharing your wisdom and observation skills.
Would it make any difference if ebay itself was the first to breach the contract? Or does that not count?
The faceless corporation never has to follow their own rules, but the little guy does or he's a "scammer." Just ask the SEC.
What a great country!
<< <i>
<< <i>You agree to ebay's terms of service (as well as PayPal's I might add) every time you sell on ebay. By arranging sales outside of ebay with buyers you met via ebay, and by using services such as PayPal gift, you sir, by definition, are also a scammer. You're just scamming at a level that is acceptable to you because in your mind, ebay charges too much. At the end of the day, that is what this all boils down to. >>
As usual, someone is able to come along and summarize a complicated, multi-layered problem and boil it down to a simple black and white issue in a few short sentences. Thank you, oh so much, for sharing your wisdom and observation skills.
Would it make any difference if ebay itself was the first to breach the contract? Or does that not count?
The faceless corporation never has to follow their own rules, but the little guy does or he's a "scammer." Just ask the SEC.
What a great country! >>
Enlighten me as to how ebay breaches the contract first. Perhaps I will reconsider.
<< <i>I just can't believe how many people want to use the services that ebay offers, but don't want to pay for those services. >>
IMO - Paying $50 a month for an eBay store is paying for their services.
<< <i>In my opinion, these off-ebay transactions are going to be the next big thing that hurts ebay. >>
This is nothing new. I've been going more off ebay than on eBay on high dollar transactions since I opened a store 5 years ago.
On a side note - all of these transactions have been initiated by a buyer looking for a better price (and I rarely had a best offer option)
<< <i>Enlighten me as to how ebay breaches the contract first. Perhaps I will reconsider. >>
I'm not a lawyer, and ebay has plenty of in-house lawyers to make sure the company is always in compliance, so I'm not really equipped to give specific examples of how they've breached their own terms.
I can tell you though, that they have a fundamental flaw in their business model when such a high percentage of their customers feel so alienated and unappreciated. They're just like ticketmaster - they know they have a huge monopoly, so they treat people like crap and they just don't care.
If they don't care, why should I?
<< <i>
<< <i>My moral compass only points in the direction of me and
my associates.
But, ripping-off EBAY/PayPal is both dishonest and petty.
NOBODY can be as hard on EBAY/PP as I can, but using
their service and burning them for their fees is not a good
defense against the evil empire. Scamming them is not
even good retaliation.
The correct way to "hurt" EBAY is to NOT use their services.
................ >>
Conducting a transaction off the grid is hardly the same as running up a high balance of seller fees and then not paying. >>
///////////////////////////////////////////
Because I do not make biznez decisions - large or small - based on "morality,"
I never have to rationalize my conduct.
Steal Big, Steal Little; it's all the same, once you talk yourself into the notion
that either one is justified.
There are plenty of upfront legal remedies to use when a corp acts badly. There
is no need to steal from the corp to get redress, when it harms you.
To jack the fee's up as much as they have and to have the sellers bare the brunt of any transactions that go sideways is not really a company looking out for the small to mid-size seller. Ebay constantly allows scammers to operate on their site.
If their were a better alternative to ebay, I'd leave the site in a minute.
Ebay takes nearly a 15% slice off of every transaction. Plus $50 per month for a ebay store is a little steep. Both are too expensive in my opinion for providing a listing portal.
Does anyone remember when ebay rolled out paypal? The service was free. They smartly reeled in millions of users. Once that was accomplished they started charging fees and also eliminated any competition by outlawing the use of google checkout on their site. Smart business practices, yes. But it doesn't mean we have to sit here and like it or support them.
As msassin stated, most offers are initiated by buyers trying to get items for less money than they are listed for. It makes perfect sense for a seller to take a deal off line. The buyer saves money and so does the seller. Ebay will still get more than their fair share of transactions that happen on their site. They get a cut of every paypal deal, plus they still get store fees and listing fees.
I really wonder what percentage of transactions we're talking about that happen offline. Maybe 2%. I think ebay can survive that.
I totally agree with all that's been said by ndleo, crazymind, and msassin.
<< <i> Conducting a transaction off the grid is hardly the same as running up a high balance of seller fees and then not paying. >>
That is hardly what he said.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
One correction here: there is no SNAD process for transactions outside of ebaY. You are covered only for INR.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>The ONLY difference is you can't leave ebay feedback, but you can still file INS or SNAD with PayPal and you can always file a chargeback with your credit card.
One correction here: there is no SNAD process for transactions outside of ebaY. You are covered only for INR. >>
Not anymore. Source: Storm.
I list items with the promotional free listings with a minimum bid of the lowest I'd accept for the item. Typically, this is lower than BIN listings of similar items. Still, I'm lucky to get a single bid on most items, and many don't sell at all.
Just because it's better than craigslist doesn't make it good. ebay is simply not a good value, but it's the only game in town.
<< <i>The ONLY difference is you can't leave ebay feedback, but you can still file INS or SNAD with PayPal and you can always file a chargeback with your credit card.
One correction here: there is no SNAD process for transactions outside of ebaY. You are covered only for INR. >>
///////////////////////////
As of 10-31-10, ALL purchases made via PayPal are covered
for both INR and SNAD on ANY venue; even the BST
boards.
.............................................
As I have said many times, I have NO problem at all with EBAY
and PP fees. They deliver eyeballs that it would cost a small
fortune to attract on ANY other venue. Their fees are CHEAP,
when compared to B&M costs, private website costs, flea-mart
costs.
My problem with the outfit is their policies, which allow "buyers"
to ripoff sellers with bogus SNAD claims. My using their services
and not paying for them does nothing to remedy that problem.
........
Gotta go for now, time to pay the $120 monthly fee to the cable company for the right to surf the web and watch the 3 channels of the 80+ that they provide me that I actually care about. You know, come to think of it, the cable company has no real costs - they only pay people to deposit my checks . . . Maybe I'll just run a line from my neighbors feed . . . That will show them.
for both INR and SNAD on ANY venue; even the BST
boards.
Thanks for the clarification...I wasn't aware they had changed the rule back then..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Gotta go for now, time to pay the $120 monthly fee to the cable company for the right to surf the web and watch the 3 channels of the 80+ that they provide me that I actually care about. You know, come to think of it, the cable company has no real costs - they only pay people to deposit my checks . . . Maybe I'll just run a line from my neighbors feed . . . That will show them. >>
It's okay to do that because:
1) It's a big company and they make enough money
2) You've been a long time subscriber and have already paid your fair share
3) A couple people borrowing someone else's feed doesn't hurt anyone
4) Their customer service is cruddy and they are not entitled to your hard earned money using their service
Sure, you could move over to another inferior company without all of the bells and whistles but that's not the point.