A perplexing issue. How would you respond?

coindeuce

I purchased a 19th century medal made by the U.S. Mint (unlisted in Julian) from a relatively noteworthy numismatist who offered the item at auction on eBay. I was the sole bidder on the item, and the price was very reasonable. I made arrangements with the seller to pay by check (from my business account) and mailed the check promptly, with a printout of the auction listing enclosed, and a handwritten note on the printout - and here is the issue- requesting that the seller deposit my check no earlier than February 18. I won't elaborate on the reason for the request; that is of no relevance, other than that I had scheduled a major deposit to my account on Friday (18th). Yesterday I am reviewing my account summary on line and find that the account is overdrawn because the above seller cashed or deposited my check prematurely. Now I'm not only in the hole, but I've been slammed with a $37 NSF fee. The seller had made no attempt to contact me and comment on my request. I immediately messaged him, and his response was that he didn't see my handwritten note... (WTF -everyone who knows me, knows that I write in huge BLOCK lettering).
No apology. No offer to make an adjustment on the sale (under $100, mind you).
I proposed to him that I send the item back for a refund, on the principle that I don't accept his "undersight", and the medal certainly isn't worth in excess of $100 as it has cost me now. What would YOU do?

DNADave

I would eat it and make a mental note not to do that again.

Overdrawing on less than $100 purchase is cutting it way to close for me, and I would think even moreso on a business account...but I did fire all my credit cards, so if it aint in the bank, I aint buyin.

that's what I'd do.

JCMhouston

Hate to say it, but I wouldn't write a check that wouldn't clear. They overlooked a handwritten note, sorry, you did not inform the seller when you bid that you would be sending a check that wouldn't clear so I just can't see this being their problem.

RYK

My opinion is that when you purchase something, on ebay or elsewhere, you are obligated to pay for it. When you send someone a check, it is your duty to make it a good one. All of the other details are irrelevant in an arms length transaction. If you were doing business with me or most others from the forum, we would honor your requests, but I would not expect a stranger to necessarily make the effort to do so. More than likely, the seller forgot and/or did not read the note, but I would not lay all of the blame on him.

19Lyds

I would have made sure that enough funds existed in the account before sending it in the first place.

Expecting an eBay seller to hold a check, regardless of who they might be, without FIRST "confirming" with them that they will hold it is just asking for an NSF accident to happen.
Unfortunately, your note didn't accomplish its assigned task.

coindeuce

Good points and counterpoints above. Would it change your position if I stated this was one of 4 recent purchases where I asked for the courtesy of delayed check deposit, and all of the others have cheerfully responded "no problem"

FilamCoins

Would a post-dated check for 2/18/2011 have helped?

bidask

the terms you wanted should have been clear and agreed uponbetween you and seller before you sent the post dated check request

RYK

<< <i>Good points and counterpoints above. Would it change your position if I stated this was one of 4 recent purchases where I asked for the courtesy of delayed check deposit, and all of the others have cheerfully responded "no problem" >>


It would not change my position. Three sellers that have accommodated your extraordinary request have no bearing on what the fourth would or should do.

coindeuce

<< <i>Would a post-dated check for 2/18/2011 have helped? >>



Maybe so, as far as his bank would be concerned. But if he didn't see or ignored my note, HE certainly would not have noticed the postponed date.

I would not ethically consider the choice of post dating a check unless the payee agreed to that upfront. that practice is usually frowned upon simply for prevention of civil loss in case of the demise of the issuer.

coinguy1

You're out the $37 NSF fee, whether you return the item or not. So I don't see how that is relevant with respect to your "and the medal certainly isn't worth in excess of $100 as it has cost me now".

If, on the other hand, you want to return the item because you don't like the way the seller handled things, that's a different matter.

Personally, I might give him the benefit of the doubt about his not having seen your note. But either way, I'd be put off by his apparent indifference to your situation.

One time and one time only, I mistakenly deposited a client's check before I was supposed to. I felt terrible about it and reimbursed him the amount he was out for an NSF fee and his bounced checks that resulted from my error. I can't remember if I gave him an additional discount on top of that or not - I hope I did.

<<Would it change your position if I stated this was one of 4 recent purchases where I asked for the courtesy of delayed check deposit, and all of the others have cheerfully responded "no problem">>

Not in the least.

devious

<< <i>Good points and counterpoints above. Would it change your position if I stated this was one of 4 recent purchases where I asked for the courtesy of delayed check deposit, and all of the others have cheerfully responded "no problem" >>



No! You shouldn't have sent it unless you had postdated the check as per the above. It would had prevented him from cashing it assuming the bank tellers are as good as the ones I deal with at a pretty awesome local bank. The only fault of the overdraft fee is yours. The seller is not to blame in this case. Chalk it up as members would say as tuition. Just my negative two cents.

TexasNationals

If it wasn't agreed upon prior to being sent then the fault lies solely on you, IMO. If he agreed and cashed it anyways then I understand where you are coming from. I wouldn't have sent the check until the funds were available though as note wouldn't be enough reason. I don't even usually read the notes that I get with coins or checks honestly.

291fifth

My opinion:

NEVER pay with post dated checks. They are nothing but trouble waiting to happen. You caused the problem and now want to cause even more trouble.

Just move on.

MarkInDavis

Never write a check that won't clear. If you didn't have the funds you should have made other arrangements. It is not the burden of the recipient of your check to know when it is OK to cash it.

golden

If you don't have the money don't make a purchase.

coindeuce

Thanks for the candid responses. I would post images of the medal, but that might motivate some to push toward identifying the seller, which is of no consequence and would never be my intent. I'm somewhat optimistic that I'll arrive at an amicable agreement with the seller if I keep an open and civil dialogue with him.

coinguy1

<< <i>Thanks for the candid responses. I would post images of the medal, but that might motivate some to push toward identifying the seller, which is of no consequence and would never be my intent. I'm somewhat optimistic that I'll arrive at an amicable agreement with the seller if I keep an open and civil dialogue with him.
>>

What is left to discuss further or come to an amicable agreement about?

ColonialCoinUnion

For future reference, and assuming you and a seller have agreed in advance, it is better to put a "Deposit on X/X/XX" sticker directly on the check as opposed to writing a separate note and hoping it stays with the check.

TomB

I would have paid for it with good funds so that I would not have to bellyache about it if someone else didn't follow an unusual request.

coindeuce

<< <i>

<< <i>Thanks for the candid responses. I would post images of the medal, but that might motivate some to push toward identifying the seller, which is of no consequence and would never be my intent. I'm somewhat optimistic that I'll arrive at an amicable agreement with the seller if I keep an open and civil dialogue with him.
>>

What is left to discuss further or come to an amicable agreement about? >>



How about future arrangements for continuing to do business with the seller, like asking the seller if they mind taking post dated checks?

CaptHenway

"What we have here,
is a failure,
TO COMMUNICATE!"

Tough luck, but its your bad for writing an NSF check. Live and learn and move on.
TD

howards

<< <i>Would a post-dated check for 2/18/2011 have helped? >>



Only if the bank teller noticed the date when it was deposited. I have seen post-dated checks go through early.

IMO, the solution here is never write checks for funds that you don't have on deposit. That's how I do it. If you have to delay paying someone, then delay sending the check. (Of course, sending an explanation about when you will send the check is always good.)

You didn't say how long it was between the auction end and Feb. 18, but it kind of sounds like it was a relatively short amount of time that you could have reasonably delayed sending the check.

Another solution that works for me is to pay using PayPal backed by a credit card. Seller gets money right away and I don't get the bill for a while.

coindeuce

<< <i>I would have paid for it with good funds so that I would not have to bellyache about it if someone else didn't follow an unusual request. >>



Tom, if I had your money, I could burn my checkbook. Please define "unusual request".

TomB

An unusual request to me is to ask someone to delay the deposit of a check. This might be normal for many folks or might be something that most do now and again, but it is definitely unusual in my mind.

crypto79

Not a knock you but I cant remember the last time I had less than 100$ in any on of my accounts, maybe you should save up for a little while to make a cushion and then forget about those monies. Better to not buy then play a money shell game that can end badly

coindeuce

<< <i>An unusual request to me is to ask someone to delay the deposit of a check. This might be normal for many folks or might be something that most do now and again, but it is definitely unusual in my mind. >>



As noted in the OP, the seller is a numismatist. Maybe I should have clarified that he is a DEALER, as am I.
You are going to tell me that dealers don't extend the courtesy to other dealers, ever?

GrumpyEd

<< <i>
Only if the bank teller noticed the date when it was deposited. I have seen post-dated checks go through early. >>



I've seen checks go through with no date or the wrong year.

TomB

<< <i>

<< <i>An unusual request to me is to ask someone to delay the deposit of a check. This might be normal for many folks or might be something that most do now and again, but it is definitely unusual in my mind. >>



As noted in the OP, the seller is a numismatist. Maybe I should have clarified that he is a DEALER, as am I.
You are going to tell me that dealers don't extend the courtesy to other dealers, ever? >>



I extend that courtesy to everyone who asks, but I don't request that favor. I found out long ago that you can request whatever you want, but you cannot always count on folks to fulfill the request.

epcjimi1

Srsly. Conditions on a check? Write it, own it. Sounds like this guy -

coindeuce

No surprise that a troll has arrived.

Studio60

Don't cut your nose to spite your face.

You made no prior arrangement with the seller to postpone payment. He's not under any obligation to respond to your instruction after the sale.
Of course it would have been polite for him to do so but again, it is possible to overlook your note as he may well have just removed the check without looking at the other inserted materials.

Either way, keep the medal and stop bidding on items you can't immediately pay for should you win.

taxmad

Accepting a post dated check, or agreeing to hold a check, changes the nature of the check. The check becomes a note, and recovery must be done by you through small claims court - that is, the police won't help and the check-writer will face no criminal penalties.

In NO WAY am I casting dispersions (inferred, implied, implicit or any other thing you can think of) upon the OP. I just noted that several posters mention they agree to hold checks and having audited several B&M's, I have seen some nice walls of shame...

edix2001

Something about your mouth writing a check that another part of your anatomy can't cash, or something.

coindeuce

Great point taxmad. I should also clarify that my relationship with my business account bank is solid, and they immediately paid the check. No returns for me or the bank. I just get whacked for the $37. Like I stated previously - I won't ask to or expect to post date a check. I simply requested the professional courtesy of another dealer. I guess that is an unusual request.

Ahrensdad

CoinDeuce,
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but you shouldn't send the check if the funds are not there. There are just too many things that can go wrong. Fortunately, it was a small dollar amount and resulted in a small NSF fee, as opposed to 10 or 15 checks bouncing at $37 a pop. Leason learned. Had you made that request of me, especially for a small purchase, I would have honored it, even though we don't know each other nor have we done business. That leads me to believe the seller probably missed your note, or got busy and forgot about it. It really isn't his fault though, as holding your check was not something there was a prior agreement on. Not his loss (the $37), that should be your loss. Again, because I feel it was an oversight, I'd probably buy from him again if he had something I liked, but wouldn't make the same mistake. JMHO. As a side note, in all transactions (especially large ones) payment terms should be agreed to upfront. I would not be pleased as a seller in a $1,000 transaction (which this is not) had payment been accompanied by a note asking me to hold deposit when I had not agreed to those terms.

-Andrew

pursuitofliberty

Wouldn't respond ... I'd suck it up ... but then again I wouldn't write it in the first place. Email saying I can't send the check until the 18th, or a call, or something ... yeah, okay, maybe ... but I probably wouldn't bid then either unless all that was done prior.

My check, my signature, my word ... they have to be solid.

Bayard1908

<< <i>"What we have here,
is a failure,
TO COMMUNICATE!"

Tough luck, but its your bad for writing an NSF check. Live and learn and move on.
TD >>



I was unaware than anyone under the age of 35 used the expression "your bad."

lordmarcovan

<< <i>I would eat it and make a mental note not to do that again.

Hate to say it, but I wouldn't write a check that wouldn't clear. They overlooked a handwritten note, sorry, you did not inform the seller when you bid that you would be sending a check that wouldn't clear so I just can't see this being their problem. >>



I agree with both of the above. I'd say you have a right to be annoyed that the dunce on the other end couldn't read plain English and follow simple directions, but I don't think you have much recourse, if any. Maybe they just forgot and stuck the check in with their deposits. Maybe they overlooked your note. Maybe they were just stupid, or didn't care.

Regardless, I don't think sending somebody a postdated check is such a hot idea, unless it's somebody well known to you personally.

tmot99

If I am anticipating a check to arrive, I usually wouldn't even look at the sheet of paper. Though I feel your pain, I also feel that it was your error.

mrcoin3

They way you went about it is the unusual part of the request.
You did it wrong, just eat the $37 and consider it a lesson learned.

djdilliodon

<< <i>My opinion:

NEVER pay with post dated checks. They are nothing but trouble waiting to happen. You caused the problem and now want to cause even more trouble.

Just move on. >>



X2

adamlaneus

You want to send the medal back?!? Because of this?!?

dbcoin

Please change the title of this thread to:

Why Dealers Make Me Drink, Volume I

mrpotatoheadd

<< <i>I immediately messaged him, and his response was that he didn't see my handwritten note... (WTF -everyone who knows me, knows that I write in huge BLOCK lettering). >>

Is it completely out of the realm of possibility that the seller just pulled the check out and didn't see your note? If so, it would appear you're saying he lied to you.

DRUNNER

Unfortunate the recipient did not follow through on the instructions. I certainly would have, but perhaps this person did not see or adhere to your request.

Oh . . . and I (and I know others) am still excited about your NGC Black tease! Gee . . how long am I going to have to hold onto these thousands in order to buy an NGC Black Commem? Or two. Or six.

We await with baited breath!

Drunner
(Resident Forum Doily Slut . . . and anxious NGC Black bidder)

Studio60

We live in a society where personal responsibility is tossed out the window and so easily discarded all the while blame is immediately thrust upon and assigned to others. Really sort of a sad commentary and the OP does not but reaffirm this by posting more and more.

Insult to injury? Attempting to come up with a scheme of punishing the seller by sending the coin back.
Bad form.

Tonelover

Another option would have been to contact the seller prior to bidding and ask that should you win, would it be OK for you to not pay/send payment until a certain date. I never have an issue with that request as long as the date isn't too far in the future, and it is certainly appreciated when people ask about that stuff before the fact rather than after.

AnkurJ

Paypal.

TWQG

<< <i>As noted in the OP, the seller is a numismatist. Maybe I should have clarified that he is a DEALER, as am I. >>



My worst experiences over the last three years have been selling to dealers.

edix2001

<< <i>I made arrangements with the seller to pay by check ... >>



As eBay has a policy of not allowing sellers to accept checks unless it is specifically requested, I'm assuming that the seller was contacted either prior to the end of auction or shortly thereafter to request payment be accepted via check.
Of course that would be the time to alert the seller that the check wouldn't be good until a certain date, and then await a positive reply to that extra special request before mailing such a payment with the aim of anticipating that it be honored.