How Did the Old Teletype Work?

Coinosaurus · February 13, 2011 1:43PM

For many years I have heard about this old secret dealer network that operated by the "teletype."

What exactly was it, a fax-type machine or ?? How did you input and receive data from it? Did it have some kind of low bit-rate modem attached to it?

Does it still survive, or has it turned into a website?

RYK · February 13, 2011 1:51PM

If you can translate the query into Latin and have it scribed on expensive parchment, it would be a great one to send via Pony Express to the old boys from Stack's.

llafoe · February 13, 2011 2:03PM

Western Union used teleprinters (teletypewriters)... the Bells (AT&T) used teleprinters... they could have communicated using Western Union or between the Bells.

oreville · February 13, 2011 2:06PM

They used the old wide paper printers.

Look at the old first Superman I movie now re-playing. In the newsroom of the Daily Planet you can see some of the old teletype/teleprinters in use in the day (1978) right before the PC came into vogue.

Frankcoins · February 13, 2011 2:19PM

A common ASR33 model, used from about 1963 through the 1990s. 110 baud (10 characters per second)

Coinosaurus · February 13, 2011 2:22PM

Cool!

So, when you typed into it, did the copy get sent to everyone on the network? Or was it one-to-one communication?

Did they connect it up through the phone line or did they do a separate connection?

derryb · February 13, 2011 2:30PM

Internet search will do it every time

Broadstruck · February 13, 2011 3:19PM

Frankcoins, Thanks for posting that pic as my father used to repair these things when he was in the army, but I never knew what they looked like till now.

291fifth · February 13, 2011 4:05PM

The network wasn't a secret. Many shops had the machines in plain sight and the customers knew what they were.

WoodenJefferson · February 13, 2011 5:57PM

droopyd · February 13, 2011 6:16PM

Lots of clattering and yellow paper.

kranky · February 13, 2011 11:11PM

Reminded me of when you used to see Telex and TWX numbers listed on business cards and in advertisements.

ambro51 · February 13, 2011 11:13PM

An amazing machine...my Father had a surplus USAF unit hooked up when I was young...it was amazing how FAST it worked. I believe the basis was Morse code?

ricko · February 13, 2011 11:29PM

Used them all the time in the Navy... aboard ship or shore. Did not operate on Morse code, that was a separate means of communication. I was in communications in the Navy and worked on all methods including encryption. TT's were on all ships. Cheers, RickO

Barry · February 13, 2011 11:50PM

The TTY machines use a 5 bit code called Baudot and not 8 bit ASCII.
For those mathematically inclined, you'd quickly realize a 5 bit code does not support as many characters as exists in letters, numbers and punctuation. Anyone know how they got around this limitation (without doing an Internet search to find the answer)?

tahoe98 · February 13, 2011 11:53PM

...i operated a radio-teletype rig in the army, i found it fascinating technology for the time and enjoyed it.

llafoe · February 14, 2011 12:02AM

<< Used them all the time in the Navy... aboard ship or shore. Did not operate on Morse code, that was a separate means of communication. I was in communications in the Navy and worked on all methods including encryption. TT's were on all ships. Cheers, RickO >>

RickO - When were you in the Navy? Back in the day I worked with the 7, 14 and 37s and also the TT-624s in the Navy. That was before John Walker made them obsolete!

llafoe · February 14, 2011 12:07AM

<< The TTY machines use a 5 bit code called Baudot and not 8 bit ASCII.
For those mathematically inclined, you'd quickly realize a 5 bit code does not support as many characters as exists in letters, numbers and punctuation. Anyone know how they got around this limitation (without doing an Internet search to find the answer)? >>

They initally used 5-bit Baudot code but subsequently went to ASCII. In the Navy, we used NAVMACS as our message header sorter to determine which messages were to be printed... it was a 64K ASCII based computer that sent the messages intended for us to the TT-624 Teletypewriters.

MrEureka · February 14, 2011 12:14AM

How Did the Old Teletype Work?

Same as the new one. If you want to buy a large quantity of something as cheaply as possible, you offer a small quantity for sale cheaply and the price guides pick it up as the new lower "ask". (If anyone tries to buy any from you, just tell them you already sold them.) If you want to sell a quantity for as much as possible, you post a high bid for a small quantity and the price guides pick it up as the new higher "bid". And if your bid is "sight seen", you can reject anything you don't want to buy, even if the coins are perfectly fine. Works like a charm.

FredWeinberg · February 14, 2011 12:35AM

Ahh, a Blast From The Past -

When I started as a collector, and then
a dealer, there was only the telephone
and Teletype to communicate between
dealers (not counting mail, of course).

The machines were fairly loud as they
clanked out the letters on yellow paper,
and you'd have to tear off the stream
of messages every now and then - &
be careful that the paper didn't jam.

Danny Crabbe, of Van Nuys, Calif., was
one of the founders/originators of the
Teletype system...I knew him from going
into his shop in the 60's and 70's.........

.....haven't thought about the old TT system
in a LONG time !

Fred

kranky · February 14, 2011 1:52AM

<< The TTY machines use a 5 bit code called Baudot and not 8 bit ASCII.
For those mathematically inclined, you'd quickly realize a 5 bit code does not support as many characters as exists in letters, numbers and punctuation. Anyone know how they got around this limitation (without doing an Internet search to find the answer)? >>

Since each code would have to represent multiple characters, the only thing I can think of is some kind of special code that says something like "the next character is in code set 1 (or code set 2)".

Barry · February 14, 2011 2:33AM

<< 

<< The TTY machines use a 5 bit code called Baudot and not 8 bit ASCII.
For those mathematically inclined, you'd quickly realize a 5 bit code does not support as many characters as exists in letters, numbers and punctuation. Anyone know how they got around this limitation (without doing an Internet search to find the answer)? >>

Since each code would have to represent multiple characters, the only thing I can think of is some kind of special code that says something like "the next character is in code set 1 (or code set 2)". >>

Close, Kranky.
There are keys labeled LTRS and FIGS which work like a SHIFT LOCK key. If you wanted to send numbers, you hit the FIGS key first, then typed the numbers. The operator had to remember to downshift back to LTRS at the end of the number string. For example 123 has the same Baudot codes as QWE, respectively. Some of the later machines automatically sent the FIGS or LTRS code with each character and on the receive end had an automatic USOS (unshift on space) anticipating that after a number string, letters would follow again.

dragon · February 14, 2011 2:55AM

<< How Did the Old Teletype Work?

Same as the new one. If you want to buy a large quantity of something as cheaply as possible, you offer a small quantity for sale cheaply and the price guides pick it up as the new lower "ask". (If anyone tries to buy any from you, just tell them you already sold them.) If you want to sell a quantity for as much as possible, you post a high bid for a small quantity and the price guides pick it up as the new higher "bid". And if your bid is "sight seen", you can reject anything you don't want to buy, even if the coins are perfectly fine. Works like a charm. >>

Uh huh.....similar to the shady ploy IMO of a dealer making a high grade Pop 1 coin and then slowly raising the bid on the coin week after week on the system (knowing there's a very slim chance another will be made that someone else could stick him with) until he has the bid up to a very high level, then dumping the coin to an 'investor' or elsewhere and subsequently drastically lowering or removing his bid altogether. Ever see a Pop 1 MS66 go from $14750.00 to $6200.00 in one week?

firstmint · February 14, 2011 3:03AM

I remember answering the selling agreements from other dealers in regular type and when not at the machine when it would be your turn to send something, a 1 inch strip of paper with characters already typed on it would feed automatically during each complete system cycle (but you had to reset the tape message each time, or add a different one). It was an addictive, yet time consuming element to the coin biz. For the most part, it was a distraction.

Each shop had their own code (the one I worked at was A-15) and this was in a printed book going to subscribers (so you would know the cntact information and who you were talking to and could make notes on slow pay, etc.). It was a faster way to buy and sell things without being on the phone all day, going to coin shows. It helped in trying to find out what somebody had that you were wanting in another part of the country.

By the end of the 1970s, the green machines were history because of computers.

johnny9434 · February 14, 2011 4:03AM

<<

>>

lmao, cute

Bubblehead · February 14, 2011 4:52AM

I recall that the code bar clutch cam, follower-arm & roller spring, was real
hard to replace!

jsf · February 14, 2011 5:14AM

I went to work in phone company central offices when there was still the step-by-step switching systems. Eventually I moved into the No. 1 and No. 101 Electronic Switching Systems. There always seemed to be a teletype machine (or several) around that communicated various line status or switching events of note. Noisy dang things. At least the electronic, ESS offices were quieter than the old mechanical switch, step offices.

I could only take being cooped up inside so long, I bid out to installer/repairman ASAP.

CaptHenway · February 14, 2011 5:45AM

During the years I was at Coin World (1973-78) they got in a new fangled machine that people could send us pictures with. The only problem was, other people had to have one of the expensive machines to send a picture with, and nobody did. Eventually they threw it away. The facsimile technology that we know today came later.
TD

Rollerman · February 14, 2011 6:08AM

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, I was responsible for the up keep of a number of these old Teletypes. I used to have to go out to school districts with a refurbished one and bring back the non-functioning one for repairs. Some months it was a lot of miles and I considered my mileage checks to be my "mad money" which translated to "coin Money". My collection would be much smaller today if not for those checks.

That little unit on the left hand side of the photo that Frank sent was a paper tape reader. We had a Digital computer with about 1/10th of the power your PC now has, that was dedicated to student use. If it crashed, we had to load dozens of tapes, in just the right sequence, to get the system back up again. That unit also punched out that kind of tape as I remember...what a trip down memory lane.
Pete

gamer1958 · February 16, 2011 4:54AM

Worked on em in the USAF and we still had tons of them in Korea as late as 1986; noisy, plug-ugly machines that required constant love, lots of oil, grease, PMIs, and a cabinet full of spare parts; M-28 (Baudot), M-37 (ASCII code); M-40 was an electronic version with a CRT and mag tape memory that came out around 1984 or so; UGC-129 was a tactical self-contained unit machine that needed no maintenance. Military comms guys were, and probably still are, a unique breed - I did enjoy my years with them. These things were all phased out in the late 80s when the PC took over in most of the communications centers. Interesting to see them mentioned again, and how many of you know so much about them !!!

Longacre · February 16, 2011 7:32AM

<< If you can translate the query into Latin and have it scribed on expensive parchment, it would be a great one to send via Pony Express to the old boys from Stack's. >>

I was going to essentially write the same thing.

RWB · February 16, 2011 7:55AM

Each member dealer had a large black metal box on their office desk. Inside were 100 very tiny people with very loud voices. Each person sat on a tiny electrical connection. Each person also could say only one letter or number.

When the “Great God of All Numismatics” issued an order for a certain kind of coin, the electrical signals cause the tiny people to shout their letters and numbers loudly. The dealer would write this down on “paper” or possibly the back of his hand; then shout his reply into the box. This startled the tiny people so that they jumped and the motion created an electrical charge that went back to the “Great God of All Numismatics” where omniscient beings made miracles and matched buy and sell orders.

In their spare time, the tiny people baked communion wafers. They tried making chocolate chip cookies but they kept falling in the batter and getting baked and eaten.

keets · February 16, 2011 8:20AM

if you want to watch a machine in action make sure you don't miss Steve McQueen in Bullit next time it's shown. there's a scene towards the end where a picture is sent via TeleType and they clearly show the machine with the phone cradled as the information is transmitted from Chicago to San Franscisco. that was high tech back in the day!!! i was born and raised about a mile from AddressoGraph MultiGraph Copr. when they were leading the pack in technology. it all ende rather quickly in the late 70's and early 80's.

ColonelJessup · February 17, 2011 1:32AM

<< 

<< How Did the Old Teletype Work?

Same as the new one. If you want to buy a large quantity of something as cheaply as possible, you offer a small quantity for sale cheaply and the price guides pick it up as the new lower "ask". (If anyone tries to buy any from you, just tell them you already sold them.) If you want to sell a quantity for as much as possible, you post a high bid for a small quantity and the price guides pick it up as the new higher "bid". And if your bid is "sight seen", you can reject anything you don't want to buy, even if the coins are perfectly fine. Works like a charm. >>

Uh huh.....similar to the shady ploy IMO of a dealer making a high grade Pop 1 coin and then slowly raising the bid on the coin week after week on the system (knowing there's a very slim chance another will be made that someone else could stick him with) until he has the bid up to a very high level, then dumping the coin to an 'investor' or elsewhere and subsequently drastically lowering or removing his bid altogether. Ever see a Pop 1 MS66 go from $14750.00 to $6200.00 in one week? >>

Now you've got it !

How Did the Old Teletype Work?

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