"CARRless" thread regarding 1964 Peace Dollars

ambro51

This thread will be a No Carr Zone. Dan, feel free to post, but PLEEEZE everyone in the interest of not further beating the dead horse, please give your thoughts on this...


Let us suppose that the 1964 Peace Dollar was struck, all 316 thousand of them.....and they were released into circulation, or distributed in mint sets. So it would be the reawakening of a dormant series. Consider this scenario....that the coin was accepted, and the decision was made to continue the issues....

Now in 1965, probably at the same time the peace dollars were struck, the new clad composition came into use. Do you think that the 1965 peace dollars would have been clad? Would the series have continued, through the sixties, seventies.....and do yuu think they would be still minted? Would the whole IKE dollar thiing came to pass? The small dollar? would the peace dollar have been resized??

Would it still be here today? A smaller version of the Peace Dollar?

Would the small dollar program have been more successful if the coins had been peace dollars, instead of the semi-commem versions that they have morphed into, with the native american and presidents series??

BillJones

The problem in 1964 was that a very large number of people thought that the price of silver was going to reach the point where the intrinsic value of the 90% silver coins was going to exceed their face value. Therefore people began to hoard silver coins.

A further problem with the silver dollar, as it was on the books at the time the Morgan and piece dollars were minted, was that a silver dollar contained slightly more silver than two half dollars or any other combination of subsidiary silver coins. This dated from the 19th century when the Coinage Act 1853 lowered the weights of all silver coins except the silver dollar. That was based on some foolish notion that Congress was preserving the integrity of the U.S. dollar by retaining its weight. That met that by 1964-5 a Morgan or Peace silver dollar contained about one dollar’s worth of silver, while the other silver coins did not. The “magic melt number” of $1.29 per once for silver applied to dimes, quarters and half dollars, but it was lower for silver dollars.

I don’t know if the 1964 Peace dollars were made under the old standard weight; I suspect that they were. If that was true they would never have circulated, even if the old taboo against using silver dollars in circulation had been broken. If the Peace dollar had remained as a regular mint product, chances are Congress would have made it into a silver clad coin, but anyone who says that is really going out on a limb.

First, this was at a time before the government was making unusual coins for collectors. In fact collectors were under the gun and blamed for much of the 1964-5 coin shortage.

Second, the mint capacity was not large enough at the time to serve the nation’s needs. The new Philadelphia mint would not open until 1967, and until that happened the U.S. mint system was out straight. Therefore there would have been no sympathy on the part of Congress to continue to mint a coin that would not circulate.

messydesk

I'm guessing they would have been 40% silver like the halves through 1970. I don't know if the "Peace" design would have been used, however, during the Vietnam War. The 1964 Peace dollar quite possibly would have been an anachronistic "placeholder" like the 1999 SBA and the 1921 Morgan -- something to strike until new dies of a new design could be prepared in 1965. The timing of both Eisenhower's death and the lunar landing in 1969 might have made redesign inevitable, however, especially if a real person wasn't being used from 1965-69.

Always interesting to ponder "what ifs" that aren't far fetched.

GritsMan

My guess is that if they'd been released they would have been snapped up immediately. Already in the mid-Sixties, people (such as my parents) were talking wistfully about the silver dollars they'd been forced to spend in dire economic circumstances. If any new silver dollars really did become available, I don't think they'd make it beyond one or two commercial transactions. Even the IKE was hoarded for a while when it came out, wasn't it? I remember being very excited about it as an 11 year-old. It's hard to imagine a new design for the dollar in 1964, though. Truman was still alive. FDR was taken. Maybe something with the space program, as the IKE later used. Of course, the Beatles would have been the obvious choice...

Weiss

My wag is that they would have been 40% then silver-less.

But the idea of a clad peace dollar, 40% or otherwise, just sounds dreadful. The thought of seeing the sandwich rim of a clad peace dollar makes me throw up in my mouth a little.

canadanz

It is my understanding that all 1964-D Peace dollars were minted in 1966, and all the clad coinage bearing 1965 was minted in 1966. I realize that's immaterial to your question, but just thought it worth posting...

That being said, I'm glad they didn't continue the Peace dollar as a clad coin. I'm also glad they didn't release the 1964-D... it would have kind have dampened the series in my mind. I wish they wouldn't have made the 34-35 coins in much the same vein I wish they hadn't made the 21 Morgans. The gap in between is just... not nice I suppose.

CaptHenway

I would guess that they would have gone to a 40% clad dollar starting with either the 1965 or the 1966 date. This might have satisfied the casino demand for dollar-sized coins for the slot machines, which is one of the reasons why the Mint eventually started making the Eisenhower dollars.

A 40% dollar might have changed history. The whole point of making the half 40% was to keep one silver coin in circulation. Had the dollar taken that role, the half could have gone to cu-ni clad in 1965 or 1966 and stayed in circulation instead of being hoarded for so long that it stopped circulating.

BTW, the $1.292929 magic silver price was the level at which the silver in one silver dollar equalled $1. The break-even point for two halves or four quarters or ten dimes was $1.38+++.

TD

CaptHenway

<< <i>It is my understanding that all 1964-D Peace dollars were minted in 1966, and all the clad coinage bearing 1965 was minted in 1966. I realize that's immaterial to your question, but just thought it worth posting...

That being said, I'm glad they didn't continue the Peace dollar as a clad coin. I'm also glad they didn't release the 1964-D... it would have kind have dampened the series in my mind. I wish they wouldn't have made the 34-35 coins in much the same vein I wish they hadn't made the 21 Morgans. The gap in between is just... not nice I suppose. >>



The 1964-D Peace dollars were struck in May of 1965.

robec

<< <i>It is my understanding that all 1964-D Peace dollars were minted in 1966, and all the clad coinage bearing 1965 was minted in 1966. I realize that's immaterial to your question, but just thought it worth posting... >>



The 1964-D were struck sometime in the spring of 1965.

This from the US Mint website on the clad coinage.


"Traditionally, all United States coins have been dated in the year of their production. This policy was interrupted, though, because of the coin shortage and the speculation in rolls and bags of coins that took place in 1964. As a result, Congress passed legislation so that after the calendar year 1964 coinage was produced, the United States Mint could still use the 1964 date. Starting in 1965, therefore, all denominations of United States coins continued to be struck with the 1964 date.

When the Coinage Act of 1965 was passed, it became mandatory that the Mint continue to use the 1964 date on all 90 percent silver coins (half-dollar coins, quarter-dollar coins, and 10-cent coins). Therefore, all of the 90 percent silver coins that the Mint manufactured in 1964, 1965, and 1966 bears the date 1964. The last of the 90 percent silver quarter-dollar coins was struck in January 1966, the last of these 10-cent coins was struck in February 1966, and the last of these half-dollar coins was struck in April 1966. The Coinage Act of 1965 also made it mandatory that the clad coins be dated not earlier than 1965. Therefore, all of the clad coins actually manufactured in 1965 bear the 1965 date. All of the clad coins made through July 31, 1966, bear the 1965 date. The first clad 10-cent coin was struck in December 1965, the first clad quarter-dollar coin was struck in August 1965 and the first clad half-dollar coin was struck in December 1965. In December 1965, the decision was made to change the 1964 date on the five-cent coins and the one-cent coins to 1965, as one step in catching up on normal coin dating. From December 1965 through July 31, 1966, all one-cent coins and five-cent coins were struck with the 1965 date.

All denominations of United States coins minted from August 1 through December 31, 1966, carried the 1966 date."

BillJones

<< <i>A 40% dollar might have changed history. The whole point of making the half 40% was to keep one silver coin in circulation. Had the dollar taken that role, the half could have gone to cu-ni clad in 1965 or 1966 and stayed in circulation instead of being hoarded for so long that it stopped circulating. >>



Actually the whole idea of the 40% silver half dollar was the result some congressional log rolling. At the beginning of the legislative process the congressmen (Senators and Representatives) from the silver producing states knew that the days of the 90% coinage were numbered, but they wanted to keep the government in the business of buying silver on the open market to provide price support for the metal. These politics dated back to the days of the Morgan silver dollar. Conversely congressmen from the places like New England and New York, when silver users wanted to keep prices down, were ready to phase out silver completely from the coinage.

Therefore the silver producing state congressmen advocated 40% silver coinage for the dime, quarter and half dollar. The silver usage state contingents wanted everything to become copper-nickel coinage. The compromise was to authorize the 40% clad half dollar.

I learned this by reading the Congressional Record for a paper I wrote in college.

CaptHenway

<< <i>

<< <i>A 40% dollar might have changed history. The whole point of making the half 40% was to keep one silver coin in circulation. Had the dollar taken that role, the half could have gone to cu-ni clad in 1965 or 1966 and stayed in circulation instead of being hoarded for so long that it stopped circulating. >>



Actually the whole idea of the 40% silver half dollar was the result some congressional log rolling. At the beginning of the legislative process the congressmen (Senators and Representatives) from the silver producing states knew that the days of the 90% coinage were numbered, but they wanted to keep the government in the business of buying silver on the open market to provide price support for the metal. These politics dated back to the days of the Morgan silver dollar. Conversely congressmen from the places like New England and New York, when silver users wanted to keep prices down, were ready to phase out silver completely from the coinage.

Therefore the silver producing state congressmen advocated 40% silver coinage for the dime, quarter and half dollar. The silver usage state contingents wanted everything to become copper-nickel coinage. The compromise was to authorize the 40% clad half dollar.

I learned this by reading the Congressional Record for a paper I wrote in college. >>



Interesting. I do not recall ever reading that there was a faction that wanted all three to be 40%.
TD

MsMorrisine

<< <i>
BTW, the $1.292929 magic silver price was the level at which the silver in one silver dollar equalled $1. The break-even point for two halves or four quarters or ten dimes was $1.38+++. >>



Neat bit of info.



I think if they had been made they would still have gone the way of the Ikes. It's not the design, it's the size and weight.

MsMorrisine

<< <i>

<< <i>It is my understanding that all 1964-D Peace dollars were minted in 1966, and all the clad coinage bearing 1965 was minted in 1966. I realize that's immaterial to your question, but just thought it worth posting... >>



The 1964-D were struck sometime in the spring of 1965.

This from the US Mint website on the clad coinage.


"Traditionally, all United States coins have been dated in the year of their production. This policy was interrupted, though, because of the coin shortage and the speculation in rolls and bags of coins that took place in 1964. As a result, Congress passed legislation so that after the calendar year 1964 coinage was produced, the United States Mint could still use the 1964 date. Starting in 1965, therefore, all denominations of United States coins continued to be struck with the 1964 date.

When the Coinage Act of 1965 was passed, it became mandatory that the Mint continue to use the 1964 date on all 90 percent silver coins (half-dollar coins, quarter-dollar coins, and 10-cent coins). Therefore, all of the 90 percent silver coins that the Mint manufactured in 1964, 1965, and 1966 bears the date 1964. The last of the 90 percent silver quarter-dollar coins was struck in January 1966, the last of these 10-cent coins was struck in February 1966, and the last of these half-dollar coins was struck in April 1966. The Coinage Act of 1965 also made it mandatory that the clad coins be dated not earlier than 1965. Therefore, all of the clad coins actually manufactured in 1965 bear the 1965 date. All of the clad coins made through July 31, 1966, bear the 1965 date. The first clad 10-cent coin was struck in December 1965, the first clad quarter-dollar coin was struck in August 1965 and the first clad half-dollar coin was struck in December 1965. In December 1965, the decision was made to change the 1964 date on the five-cent coins and the one-cent coins to 1965, as one step in catching up on normal coin dating. From December 1965 through July 31, 1966, all one-cent coins and five-cent coins were struck with the 1965 date.

All denominations of United States coins minted from August 1 through December 31, 1966, carried the 1966 date." >>




A who wants the mint director to have or. come from a political background?

Frankcoins

These 64-D dollars could have been sold to collectors at $10 each easily at a huge profit to the govenment. But the mentality at the mint at the time was keeping collectors from getting the stuff they wanted most. The 1.5 million 1974 aluminum pennies would have been good sellers at $10 each, at 99,900% profit.

ebaybuyer

seems the mint still holds dear that philosophy, dont produce what the collectors want, or make them jump through hoops for the privilage of owning them.

SCDHunter

I for one, would not have accepted them as coinage, unless they had the word “Copy” stamped on them. After all, they were copies of a series that ended many years earlier.

How else could you protect the collectors of the day from being sold these new Peace dollars as classics?