Why are there so many toned Morgans but so few toned Peace dollars?-Added a pic

TexasNationals

This has probably been answered 500 times on these boards, but it just hit me, why? A few days ago a dealer friend of mine was bragging about my 1928-P NGC MS-63 Peace dollar as it is wildly toned with blue, green and a few other colors. It is thick and I don't think it is a great coin by any means but the dealer sure did. The collector asked if it was for sale and if he could see it, I politely said no. It just now hit me, I see a ton of Morgans that are all colors of the rainbow, but rarely do I see a toned (especially heavily) Peace dollar. Every now and then some faint or light greens or oranges, but hardly ever thick. I have to assume (and I may be very wrong) that the bags and/or storage and transportation methods were very similar and the years apart are not that much given the grand scheme of it, so why? Oh, please don't consider this spam, the coin is not for sale and I don't think it is that great.

Thanks- TN

Edit: The coin the dealer loved?????

Coin Finder

I think the morgans languished in bags longer and were around longer (1878- 1904) than the Peace dollars ( 1921- 1934). Natural toning takes time.

CaptHenway

Theories include different cloth in the bags and different methods of planchet preparation.

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>Theories include different cloth in the bags and different methods of planchet preparation. >>



The planchet thingy seems to make the most sense as the 1921 Morgans tone differently too.

TonedRarities

for the 1921+ series they used a different acid bath which is why the skin of the 1921+ coins tone differently.

SFBayArea

What was the purpose of the acid bath in planchet preparation anyhow?

ricko

To remove oils and other contamination. Cheers, RickO

morgansforever

Morgans were made from freshly mined silver.
Peace dollars are recycled Morgans, from the Pittman Act.

Frankcoins

<< <i>Morgans were made from freshly mined silver.
Peace dollars are recycled Morgans, from the Pittman Act. >>



No.

The Pittman Act was a United States federal law sponsored by Senator Key Pittman of Nevada and enacted on April 23, 1918. The act authorized the conversion of not exceeding 350,000,000 standard silver dollars into bullion and its sale, or use for subsidiary silver coinage, and directed purchase of domestic silver for recoinage of a like number of dollars. Under the Act, 270,232,722 standard silver dollars were converted into bullion (259,121,554 for sale to Great Britain at $1.00 per fine ounce, plus mint charges, and 11,111,168 for subsidiary silver coinage), the equivalent of about 209,000,000 fine ounces of silver. Between 1920 and 1933, under the Act, the same quantity of silver was purchased from the output of American mines, at a fixed price of $1 per ounce, from which 270,232,722 standard silver dollars were recoined.

morgansforever

Thanks for clarifying Frank, now I feel like a big dummy.

crypto79

<< <i>Morgans were made from freshly mined silver.
Peace dollars are recycled Morgans, from the Pittman Act. >>



Not to bog your point down with facts but it is worth a mention that many many many millions of trade dollars and lots of other silver coinage were melted to make Morgans. most of the dates in the 1890s were heavily supplemented with reclaimed silver. If you see a vividly colored Peace, most of the time it is a 2nd skin after the first one was striped more often than not by a dip. That leads me to think that the coloration is caused by the way the blanks were washed since most trade dollar tone golden to brown.

kurtdog

<< <i>Thread Title: Why are there so many toned Morgans but so few toned Peace dollars? >>

Uh, just lucky, I guess.

llafoe

This isn't a well-known fact, but RickO used to be known as the Hunt Brothers of Peace Dollars. At one time, RickO owned over 100 Million Peace Dollars. A fact we all know, RickO loves blast white coins. He meticulously dipped each and every one of his 100 Million Peace Dollars to ensure they were all blast white. He only recently (this past decade) began selling his Peace Dollar hoard. I believe he only has a few million left in his once impressive collection.

Now you know the rest of the story!

P.S. This is also why it would be impossible to visit RickO to photograph his coins. He has the remaining Peace Dollars lined up like dominoes... if someone were to accidentally hit one of the Peace Dollar, they would fall down (in what could be called a domino effect) and spell out R I C K O on his ballroom floor!

jsf

Frankcoins: "Between 1920 and 1933, under the Act, the same quantity of silver was purchased from the output of American mines, at a fixed price of $1 per ounce, from which 270,232,722 standard silver dollars were recoined."
__

They "recoined" standard silver dollars from newly mined silver?

Wouldn't one recoin silver dollars from already minted coins, not from new, just mined, raw silver?

Did they add the new silver to the melted coins they were recoining?

kurtdog

<< <i>This isn't a well-known fact, but RickO used to be known as the Hunt Brothers of Peace Dollars. At one time, RickO owned over 100 Million Peace Dollars. A fact we all know, RickO loves blast white coins. He meticulously dipped each and every one of his 100 Million Peace Dollars to ensure they were all blast white. He only recently (this past decade) began selling his Peace Dollar hoard. I believe he only has a few million left in his once impressive collection.

Now you know the rest of the story!

P.S. This is also why it would be impossible to visit RickO to photograph his coins. He has the remaining Peace Dollars lined up like dominoes... if someone were to accidentally hit one of the Peace Dollar, they would fall down (in what could be called a domino effect) and spell out R I C K O on his ballroom floor! >>

Well, I, for one, don't buy that story, because you can't stand Peace Dollars up on their edges!

PS: Am I thinking, or what?

llafoe

<< <i>

<< <i>This isn't a well-known fact, but RickO used to be known as the Hunt Brothers of Peace Dollars. At one time, RickO owned over 100 Million Peace Dollars. A fact we all know, RickO loves blast white coins. He meticulously dipped each and every one of his 100 Million Peace Dollars to ensure they were all blast white. He only recently (this past decade) began selling his Peace Dollar hoard. I believe he only has a few million left in his once impressive collection.

Now you know the rest of the story!

P.S. This is also why it would be impossible to visit RickO to photograph his coins. He has the remaining Peace Dollars lined up like dominoes... if someone were to accidentally hit one of the Peace Dollar, they would fall down (in what could be called a domino effect) and spell out R I C K O on his ballroom floor! >>

Well, I, for one, don't buy that story, because you can't stand Peace Dollars up on their edges!

PS: Am I thinking, or what? >>



You underestimate RickO, he's a very intelligent man and can easily stand Peace Dollars on their edges! Most people don't realize that he has a Doctorate of Coins!

2manycoins2fewfunds

Could the real answer be that there is far more money to be made toning morgans than in toning peace dollars??

roadrunner

<< <i>Could the real answer be that there is far more money to be made toning morgans than in toning peace dollars?? >>



That sounds like it. More coin doctors working on Morgans.

roadrunner

BAJJERFAN

<< <i>

<< <i>Could the real answer be that there is far more money to be made toning morgans than in toning peace dollars?? >>



That sounds like it. More coin doctors working on Morgans.

roadrunner >>



Even so there are enough commonly available cheap Peace bux to make it worthwhile to AT/doctor some. Most of the toners don't realize the really big bucks unless they get slabbed and most of the folks in the know/TPGS also know that for the most part monster rainbow toned Peace bux are rare or nonexistent.

MorganMan67

I have always wondered that fact myself ,since both coins are 90% silver and very old,i very rarely come across a heavily toned Peace dollar ,but always come across heavily toned Morgan's.I do have a few heavily rainbow toned Peace dollars though,it may be the way they were stored in their mint bags though.

metalmeister

I think it was a combination of age and storage conditions.

Lucanus

Coin doctors have concentrated on coloring Morgans because of the crazy premiums some collectors are willing to pay. Put in an order for
an AT Peace dollar at your local doctor and create some demand and soon people will be ooing and aahing over them.

Doug

kenmitch

Not sure why but it does seem less common for Peace $'s to tone. Once in awhile you can find a decent one tho.

Nicely toned (to me) widget priced/class coin

crypto79

Ahhhh Mint Bags, the cause and soultion to all of the worlds problems

Preussen

My favorite Peace Dollar -Preussen

dbcoin

<< <i>Coin doctors have concentrated on coloring Morgans because of the crazy premiums some collectors are willing to pay. Put in an order for
an AT Peace dollar at your local doctor and create some demand and soon people will be ooing and aahing over them.

Doug >>



I guess Silvano likes Morgans more than he likes Peace dollars

Stew

Scarcity of toned Peace Dollars is the exact reason I purchased
this one when I used to collect Morgan and Peace Dollar VAM's

leothelyon

Thought I had one like that years ago until I got home with it and the toning came off onto my finger tips.......

Very nice, by the way! Stew


Leo

TONEDDOLLARS

I'll share my one and only. David Hall came on these boards the last time I posted this
and commented that this particular coin was one of the few Peace dollars that he
had seen that he would call original or NT

lakeshore

Holy cow TONEDDOLLARS!!