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Ethics exercise...

WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
Stopped in to the B&M over lunch. Asked if he had anything. He tossed me a small bullion piece he'd gotten earlier in the day:

image

image


I'd gotten a Cortez mine JM bar a few months back, so he thought I'd like this 1/4 oz as a companion. Flipped it over looking for the JM mark, but the initials on the back probably indicate Northwest Territorial Mint.

That's fine. Not as cool as JM or Eng, but it's still a neat piece. Asked him how much, he quoted me $338--melt at today's spot prices (which I hadn't seen since early in the AM).

My nephew was with me, he asked for 90% and my dealer sold him a handful of circ mercs at 19x. All good. We left with our prizes.

Catch the issue?

Not a quarter. Looks like a quarter, logical as a quarter. But it's 10 grams. That's what, about $100 difference in my favor.

What would you do?
We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
--Severian the Lame

Comments

  • zrlevinzrlevin Posts: 734 ✭✭✭
    Let him know and pay the difference next time you're there.
    Zach
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    The "ethics" part of the question is a little cloudy; it
    is more a question about the presence/absence of
    "self interest."

    The seller likely paid for the item as a quarter ouncer.
    No loss to the seller on that front.

    If the seller is a stranger that I will not deal with again,
    I will mark it up as a simple fortuitous gain.

    If the seller is a regular contact - or someone I want
    to make a regular contact - I will let him know of his
    mistake and pay the difference.






    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • fivecentsfivecents Posts: 11,207 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I'd gotten a Cortez mine JM bar a few months back, so he thought I'd like this 1/4 oz as a companion. >>

    The dealer sold it to you as what he mistakenly thought was a 1/4 ounce. I would tell the dealer you noticed the mistake and bring him the difference.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tell him and pay the difference. After all, he's an American and not expected to know or understand the metric system.
    It will guarantee that you keep getting shown stuff in the future, and, most importantly, it's the right thing to do.
    Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • 57loaded57loaded Posts: 4,967 ✭✭✭
    you asked, he quoted, you bought. sometimes i just don't get this "you gotta go back"

    maybe because i hear too many stories of folks getting ripped, or maybe i'm just cranky right now.
  • piecesofmepiecesofme Posts: 6,669 ✭✭✭
    I'll say it once again like I did when indiananationals asked a similar question...Knowledge is king in this hobby.

    On the hologram on the reverse of every current PCGS slab, what is the word at the very top in the hologram? Enough said.
    To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
  • meluaufeetmeluaufeet Posts: 764 ✭✭✭
    bullion piece he'd gotten earlier in the day

    Buy him a bottle of single malt.


  • As the dealer just purchased the item that day I'm sure he'll quickly "pay it forward" and call the original seller and award him the extra cash.

    No?

    Naive?
  • MeltdownMeltdown Posts: 8,789 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Weiss. You allready know you're going to bring it back and make it right... Nice thread though. image
  • Make it right!
    Many successful BST transactions ajia
    (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
    mariner67, and Mikes coins
  • taxmadtaxmad Posts: 978 ✭✭✭✭
    Was it the owner of the shop or an employee? Employee - tell the employee and make it right. Owner - he made an offer to sell and you accepted. The idea a dealer doesn't know how many grams are in a troy ounce is humorous at best. The only person to be made whole in this situation , and entitled to the extra $100, is the guy who sold to the shop earlier in the day. You would be enriching the wrong person.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    bring it up and let the dealer make the decision.
    Have a nice day
  • I would go back and search the contents of his Shop-vac while he's not looking image
    "If you hit a midget on the head with a stick, he turns into 40 gold coins." - Patty Oswalt
  • Had a dealer posted this same story...about a customer that sold this 10 gram round as a 1/4oz piece.....this place would be up for grabs!


    Dont get me wrong, I dislike most dealers the same as I dislike most spiders. But whats right is right, and Weiss going back to pay the difference is right.
  • WeissWeiss Posts: 9,941 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No wrong or right answer here. I think a case could be made for keeping it, clearly a case could be made for taking it back and renegotiating at the very least.

    One piece of info that I didn't disclose because I didn't think it was important (though some of the responses indicate that it was): I hadn't gone in with the intention of buying anything, least of all another hunk of gold. My "budget" was in the neighborhood of a 10 oz bar of silver tops. Say $300. The $338 was way more than I was prepared to spend. Paying a fair price for 10 grams would boost that to way over $400. So going back and paying the difference to keep the piece wasn't really an option.

    So what did I do?


    I went back. Told my dealer "I had a real problem with that gold bullion I just bought". Then handed it back and told him it was 10 grams, not 1/4 oz. He started to apologize and told me he'd pay me the difference--then realized I'd paid too little and started laughing. Of course he thanked me several times for being honest.

    Anyway I told him 10 grams was out of my budget for the week, so I got a refund. Told him I'd probably be back in a week to pick it up anyway. Grabbed a partial roll of silver halves on the way out for 19x face. I'll post 'em tomorrow in the PORN thread image
    We are like children who look at print and see a serpent in the last letter but one, and a sword in the last.
    --Severian the Lame
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,119 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As I said, he's an American!!!!
    We don' need no stinkin' METRIC SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    image
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • ksammutksammut Posts: 1,074 ✭✭✭
    All's well that ends well.

    You did the right thing.
    American Numismatic Association Governor 2023 to 2025 - My posts reflect my own thoughts and are not those of the ANA.My Numismatics with Kenny Twitter Page

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    ANA Life Member & Volunteer District Representative

    2019 ANA Young Numismatist of the Year

    Doing my best to introduce Young Numismatists and Young Adults into the hobby.

  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    you asked, he quoted, you bought. sometimes i just don't get this "you gotta go back"

    I tend to agree. But I've also handled this situation both ways over the years. In one instance while set up at a show I quoted a better date PF65 seated half dime as a type coin and was $400 under CDN. The buyer who was a dealer brought it to my attention. I let him have it for the quoted price even though I think he would have paid the extra $400. I just plain failed to look at CDN and that was my laziness, nothing else. On another occasion I underquoted a PF66 Walker without having checked a recent blue sheet. That was a $200 error. The dealer insisted that he pay the $200 though in my mind I was obligated to honor my quoted price.

    Still, I know if I brought this $100 difference to the attentionany of my local B&M's, that on the next transaction or two it would be entirely forgotten. I'd be charged whatever they felt they could get from me on the next coin. There would be no lingering effects of the good Samaritan.....in fact probably only 24 hour moratorium before normal dealings resumed. The dealer could have easily weighed the gold coin and figured out it was 30 grams. If he paid the previous seller only 25 grams for it then he's certainly not entitled to another freebie on my end. So I'm supposed to sweat $100 on their laziness or lack of attention to detail when I know full well that at times they rip the public a "new one" on over the counter purchases? My favorite local B&M and probably the most ethical purchased some rare, key date, raw choice mint state gold coins from an elderly woman for about 30% of CDN (purchased 2-3 points down to be "safe"). I tried to offer them 95% once they were graded but was quickly denied. Ok, so that's a $55,000 "miscue" to the original seller. And I have to sweat $100? Come on. Why is their rent any more important than my mortgage?

    I compare this situation to your local Stop & Shop, Home Depot, Walmart, etc. How often are mismarked prices in the buyer's favor, especially when you consider items that are on sale or discounted? Yeah, almost never! I'd venture that for every 50X a customer technically overpays, that one walks out the door having underpaid for some reason that slipped by the cashier. Not good odds. The odds are not that much different in your B&M. So you're supposed to go back to Stop & Shop and tell them they made a $2 error in your favor while during the course of the year, they probably overcharged on $100 for sale priced items? And this 30 gram gold coin was not mismarked. It was fairly and legitimately priced by the seller.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Good on you Weiss................MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • bstat1020bstat1020 Posts: 2,151 ✭✭
    Good job Weiss. I agree with both sides of the coin here.

    It boils down to what type of person one is and how it makes them feel doing the right thing.
  • That's great Weiss! I will do business with ya anytime honesty is refreshing!
    Many successful BST transactions ajia
    (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
    mariner67, and Mikes coins
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,113 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Dont get me wrong, I dislike most dealers the same as I dislike most spiders. >>



    I don't understand. What do you have against spiders?image

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

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