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dishonest buyer or dishonest seller?
derryb
Posts: 36,375 ✭✭✭✭✭
Needing some quick cash I recently listed and sold my UHR that I purchased from the mint. It sold for about $2025 and before shipping I opened the box to confirm the coin was there and shipped it out. The buyer contacted me and told me there was spotting on the reverse of the coin, and yes, I should have taken a look at the reverse before I shipped, but I didn't. Since I needed the proceeds and didn't want a return the buyer and I worked out a $425 refund and he would keep the coin. This allowed me to break even on the coin. I was comfortable with his claim of a problem reverse because he said he would be relisting it and as an "honest" seller he was obligated to disclose the spotting and would even include a good pic of the reverse with which I would be able to confirm his claim.
Well, he has relisted the coin here:
UHR on Ebay
As you can see from his listing there is no disclosure of the problem reverse. Concerned that he lied to me and ripped me on the refund I contacted him about his listing. I contacted him through my wife's ebay account and not my own in hopes of getting to the bottom of the situation. I inquired about any damage or spotting on the coin and asked him to post a pic of the reverse in his listing. He replied that there "may" be a spot on the reverse and acted dumb about spotting on coins. My next reply asked if if there was spotting or not and if there was why wasn't he disclosing it in the listing. He replied with a rant about how honest a seller he was and that this coin was not a good candidate for the serious collector.
My final reply was to let him know that I was the one who sold him the coin and the one who gave him a partial refund and was just trying to determine if he ripped me off or if he was trying to rip of his next buyer. Haven't heard from him since.
Not knowing if he is a dishonest buyer who ripped me off with a false claim or if he is a dishonest seller who fails to disclose known problems my only recourse is to add him to my blocked bidders list so that I have to never deal with him again.
Well, he has relisted the coin here:
UHR on Ebay
As you can see from his listing there is no disclosure of the problem reverse. Concerned that he lied to me and ripped me on the refund I contacted him about his listing. I contacted him through my wife's ebay account and not my own in hopes of getting to the bottom of the situation. I inquired about any damage or spotting on the coin and asked him to post a pic of the reverse in his listing. He replied that there "may" be a spot on the reverse and acted dumb about spotting on coins. My next reply asked if if there was spotting or not and if there was why wasn't he disclosing it in the listing. He replied with a rant about how honest a seller he was and that this coin was not a good candidate for the serious collector.
My final reply was to let him know that I was the one who sold him the coin and the one who gave him a partial refund and was just trying to determine if he ripped me off or if he was trying to rip of his next buyer. Haven't heard from him since.
Not knowing if he is a dishonest buyer who ripped me off with a false claim or if he is a dishonest seller who fails to disclose known problems my only recourse is to add him to my blocked bidders list so that I have to never deal with him again.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
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Comments
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>Is the coin for sure the same one? I ask as this seller has a lot of positive feedback. There is a lot of gold sold in his feedback history. I do not see any reason to conclude he is dishonest. Unless of course it can be said its the same coin for certain. >>
Same coin. His description mentions the shrink wrapping removed from the book (was missing when I shipped to him). The real tale-tell is that his picture shows the missing white foam between the wooden and cardboard boxes (found it on my desk after I shipped to him). His message to me that there "may" be a spot on the revese leads me to believe there is in fact a problem and that he is just a dishonest seller. Either way he is blocked from ever buying from me again.
He also mentioned his perfect feedback in his last message. My final reply:
"I'm the guy that sold you the coin and refunded you $425 for what you claimed was a problem coin. Not having looked at the reverse before I shipped it to you I took your word that there was a problem with it. You said that when you relisted it you felt obligated to disclose the problem and that you would even show clear pics of the reverse and that I would be able to see them so that I would know you were being honest with me. You have answered my question about your integrity, unfortunately your feedback does not reflect the kind of seller that you really are. Eventually it will, it always does."
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is the coin for sure the same one? I ask as this seller has a lot of positive feedback. There is a lot of gold sold in his feedback history. I do not see any reason to conclude he is dishonest. Unless of course it can be said its the same coin for certain. >>
Same coin. His description mentions the shrink wrapping removed from the book (was missing when I shipped to him). The real tale-tell is that his picture shows the missing white foam between the wooden and cardboard boxes (found it on my desk after I shipped to him). His message to me that there "may" be a spot on the revese leads me to believe there is in fact a problem and that he is just a dishonest seller. Either way he is blocked from ever buying from me again.
He also mentioned his perfect feedback in his last message. My final reply:
"I'm the guy that sold you the coin and refunded you $425 for what you claimed was a problem coin. Not having looked at the reverse before I shipped it to you I took your word that there was a problem with it. You said that when you relisted it you felt obligated to disclose the problem and that you would even show clear pics of the reverse and that I would be able to see them so that I would know you were being honest with me. You have answered my question about your integrity, unfortunately your feedback does not reflect the kind of seller that you really are. Eventually it will, it always does." >>
based on this information I would say at least he is a dishonest seller.
Why don't you buy it back and then demand a refund of $425.
<< <i>I know of one other seller who was similarly blackmailed into a discount simply because he worshipped his perfect feedback. >>
In defense of the buyer, it was my suggestion on the refund. As stated in the OP I needed quick cash and didn't want to go through the delay of a return. I was satisfied to break even on the coin if in fact there was a problem with it. That said, I can assure you he will never buy from me again.
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
<< <i>With the link you provided, I don't see the tell tale sign of the missing white foam between the wooden and cardboard boxes. >>
Compare it to the pic in this other UHR listing.
linky
Rampant currency debasement will be the most important investment trend of this decade, and it will devastate most people.
- Nick Giambruno Buy dollar insurance now, because the policy will cost more as the dollar becomes worth less.
I will post his reply to this thread.
EDITED 1-31:
I have not heard from this seller, though did not really expect an answer.
Too bad......another seemingly disreputable seller
That would make everything right and make everybody happy I bet.
John
Never view my other linked pages. They aren't coin related.
<< <i>I'd say the guy is a little bit of both. Dishonest period. >>
He was honest there at least.
The $425 "settlement" was "arms length", because (it appears) you missed the reverse spot in the first place with your ad and mutually agreed to the $425 settlement ... so no problem there. He was not a dishonest buyer if I got those facts right I believe.
Regarding the dishonest seller possibility ... I could not see the ad anymore. Did he specifically state the coin was "problem-free" or just offer the coin with no description?
Wondercoin
<< <i>I would have told him to return the coin for a full refund instead of giving a discount, especially one that big. >>
Almost always the right answer.
--Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>I would have told him to return the coin for a full refund instead of giving a discount, especially one that big. >>
Almost always the right answer.
--Jerry >>
Huge I agree with you.
you could have posted that coin on the bst and got at least $1700 easily with the spot. and no fees
But you definitely got ripped because nearly ALL UHRs are now going for $2400+ on Ebay. I just did a check and very few sell for less than $2000 and most sell for $2200-$2700.