Ebay question - what would you do if a seller wouldn't accept a return?

coin22lover · January 25, 2011 2:41PM

I recently bought what I thought was going to be a PQ coin based on the description, and even though the coin is in an NGC holder, the photos were sort of marginal (typical ebay photos). I received the coin a few days ago, and I see things about it I don't like, particularly for the price I paid. What would you do, as a buyer, if the seller told you he/she wouldn't take the coin back and was unwavering about it? So far, I agreed to have the shipping cost deducted as well as cancel the transaction so they could get their money back, but no luck with the seller.

MarkInDavis · January 25, 2011 2:43PM

What did the auction say about returns. If it said no returns, then unless the item was grossly misrepresented I would live with it and be wary of future auctions without returns. If the auction said returns were ok, then I would make a stink if necessary.

mrpotatoheadd · January 25, 2011 2:44PM

What is the return policy?

PinkFloyd · January 25, 2011 2:45PM

What was the return policy?

RedHerring · January 25, 2011 2:47PM

If it was a "No Returns Accepted" auction, then I'd keep it.

coin22lover · January 25, 2011 2:48PM

The return policy said no returns, but I'm not happy with the coin at the price I paid. It was described as nice for the grade, but I can even see hairlines on it...don't like the coin at all.

mrpotatoheadd · January 25, 2011 2:50PM

<< The return policy said no returns... >>

If you wanted a return option, why did you bid?

commoncents05 · January 25, 2011 2:54PM

I would say you should keep the coin. If you really want an out, you could file a SNAD dispute with PayPal, but it doesn't sound like the seller grossly misrepresented the coin. Therefore, I think you should be subject to the original terms of the listing, which says no returns.

-Paul

LotsoLuck · January 25, 2011 2:57PM

<< I would say you should keep the coin. If you really want an out, you could file a SNAD dispute with PayPal, but it doesn't sound like the seller grossly misrepresented the coin. Therefore, I think you should be subject to the original terms of the listing, which says no returns.

-Paul >>

What he said.

Tdec1000 · January 25, 2011 2:57PM

Sounds like buyers remorse to me. You shouldn't have taken that big of a gamble on a coin with a no return policy.

Moldnut · January 25, 2011 3:10PM

SOL! Clearly states "No returns". Are you sure they are hairlines? Not that I want it, but it looks like a nice coin with some color.

coin22lover · January 25, 2011 3:14PM

Not sure if we're on the same page, Moldnut, but it looks like a 100% consensus that I should just keep it.

CoinJunkie · January 25, 2011 3:20PM

Moral of story (yet again): Do not buy coins with marginal photos and a no return policy!!!

AUandAG · January 25, 2011 3:23PM

Chances are if it had lousy pics you could just put it back up with great pics and
recoup your funds. No brainer to me.

bob

CoinJunkie · January 25, 2011 3:28PM

<< Chances are if it had lousy pics you could just put it back up with great pics and
recoup your funds. No brainer to me.

bob >>

Unless the great pics show off all of the flaws that the OP doesn't like...

coin22lover · January 25, 2011 3:31PM

<< 

<< Chances are if it had lousy pics you could just put it back up with great pics and
recoup your funds. No brainer to me.

bob >>

Unless the great pics show off all of the flaws that the OP doesn't like... >>

Now we're thinking,

Moldnut · January 25, 2011 3:36PM

Why don't you post the sellers pics so we can all see.

coin22lover · January 25, 2011 3:48PM

<< Why don't you post the sellers pics so we can all see. >>

Maybe later. I'd rather not right now, because I'm not the type to "out" people I have trivial disagreements with (it could easily be looked up on ebay if I posted it). This was intended more as a general discussion about the scenario stemming from my experience.

sinin1 · January 25, 2011 4:00PM

you clearly bid too much

you say hairlines but in NGC slab

either you are wrong (and die polish (which I don't like)) or it is a proof and the grade is adjusted,
or really old valuable coin

you can push it through PAYPAL and eBay and get a forced return

but buyers looking for upgrades or returns are limiting the number of good sellers
willing to put up with all the crap

morgandollar1878 · January 25, 2011 4:11PM

I would not have bid in the first place.

clackamas · January 25, 2011 4:11PM

Did the seller make it sound like a PQ coin, e.g., calling it one, therefore commanding a premium? You can have really good qualities for a coin, and it be totally consistent with the grade (therefore not being PQ but solid) and have the auction description be honest. If it's misleading then you have every right to tell the seller to take a hike, if its not you own it.
I usually am a seller, but occasionally buy as well, I once purchased a coin from a seller with a clear no return policy, but he described the coin as problem free (it was an MS67FS 44-D Jefferson), anyway when I get the coin it was clearly not FS, so therefore not problem free, I called him on it he told me to take a hike, so I called him out on this message board. lets just say that is all it took, however, that was back when a seller could leave a buyer a negative, now they can't, so you have more power than you think. But you should only use it when it is true that you were mislead, not when you made a mistake. A return cost money to the seller, it does, in time and effort, its not his fault if you have remorse, it his fault if he mislead you.

The "no returns" = you keep it is BS - if the coin is mis represented that is out the door, no need for that being gross either.

rlarick · January 25, 2011 5:32PM

no returns
marginal pics

and you still bid?

chalk it up to a tuition towards buyers education school and get over it.

You wouldn't be crying if it was a little old lady who didn't know how to list and you just scored a thousand dollar coin for $50 - would ya?

People - quit supporting sellers like this! I used to ask why sellers had a no return policy on graded coins, when they asked if I was questioning the best grading companies in the world, i looked elsewhere. .

Connecticoin · January 25, 2011 8:11PM

Auction link? Hard to tell if the coin was misrepresented without seeing the actual description.

Twobitcollector · January 25, 2011 8:14PM

I avoid "NO Return" e-bay items.

pf70collector · January 25, 2011 9:16PM

I called him on it he told me to take a hike, so I called him out on this message board. lets just say that is all it took, however, that was back when a seller could leave a buyer a negative, now they can't, so you have more power than you think

I never did this because I have 100% feedback, but I suppose you could right a negative comment in the feedback reply while giving the buyer positive feedback. Anyone do this?

Broadstruck · January 25, 2011 9:21PM

<< If it was a "No Returns Accepted" auction, then I'd keep it. >>

taxmad · January 25, 2011 9:49PM

I returned a coin with from a no return auction. The coin had a small, toned over scratch visible in the pic. If the coin was rotated a bit, it looked like an SOS pad had been taken to it. The seller told me to put it up on eBay and someone else would buy it and I would get my money back. I said no, I don't want to count on the stupidity of another buyer to make me whole. He refused a few more times then I opened a dispute. This was not just a minor 'not as described' issue.

If the item has problems that the pics do not show, and the description does not disclose, then return it.

Moldnut · January 25, 2011 10:54PM

<< You wouldn't be crying if it was a little old lady who didn't know how to list and you just scored a thousand dollar coin for $50 - would ya? . >>

You got that right!

astrorat · January 25, 2011 11:35PM

If you feel the coin was misrepresented, then file a SNAD and you will get a refund. But much of that relies on whether or not you truly felt the coin's image or description was deceptive, misleading, etc. If you feel you just missed something in the image or description (which happens to all of us) or you don't like it as much in hand or you feel you paid a bit too much, then that is different and you should keep the coin.

A short while back I was roasted by some members of the Board when I described what happened to me after purchasing a "no return" raw coin at a great price, only to receive a coin that was scratched (gouged). No description of the damage and the images were clearly taken to deceive. The seller was argumentative and eBay stepped in and refunded my money including providing me with prepaid return postage (the seller even tried to claim he never the return, despite the confirmation).

Just my free opinion...

derryb · January 25, 2011 11:51PM

Don't forget, SNAD includes the word "signifcantly" not as described. I guess ebay chooses the definition when they make a case settlement decision.

BAJJERFAN · January 25, 2011 11:56PM

<< Don't forget, SNAD includes the word "signifcantly" not as described. I guess ebay chooses the definition when they make a case settlement decision. >>

I get the feeling that in this instance that might mean Significantly Not As Desired!!

jmdm1194 · January 26, 2011 12:00AM

Open a "item not as described" dispute with paypal. Explain that the sellers description and pictures were misleading. Trust me, paypal will get the sellers side of the story and ultimately side with you and have you return the coin for a full refund to include your shipping. For future reference, there is no such thing as "no returns accepted". If you are unhappy with the product then the item is not as described, end of story. If for some reason paypal does not side with you and you paid with a credit card then you can fall back on that and file a charge back. The credit card company will find in your favor and you dont even have to have a good reason with them. You can just say that you changed your mind and that is it, and they supersede paypal.

jmdm1194 · January 26, 2011 12:05AM

<< Don't forget, SNAD includes the word "signifcantly" not as described >>

"Significantly" is a gray area and subjective to each individual buyer

TPRC · January 26, 2011 12:14AM

I'm afraid I'm with the majority on this one. No returns means no returns. The coin is slabbed and, therefore, has met some recognized standard. That the coin is not to your liking, absent fraud or serious intentional misrepresentation, is a risk of the bargain and its terms. So I would take my lumps and move on.

TPRC · January 26, 2011 12:14AM

I'm afraid I'm with the majority on this one. No returns means no returns. The coin is slabbed and, therefore, has met some recognized standard. That the coin is not to your liking, absent fraud or serious intentional misrepresentation, is a risk of the bargain and its terms. So I would take my lumps and move on.

notwilight · January 26, 2011 12:20AM

<< The return policy said no returns, but I'm not happy with the coin at the price I paid. It was described as nice for the grade, but I can even see hairlines on it...don't like the coin at all. >>

Then you need to abide by the contract you entered. If unhappy, resell it. --Jerry

RRich2004 · January 26, 2011 12:23AM

<< I recently bought what I thought was going to be a PQ coin based on the description, and even though the coin is in an NGC holder, the photos were sort of marginal (typical ebay photos). I received the coin a few days ago, and I see things about it I don't like, particularly for the price I paid. What would you do, as a buyer, if the seller told you he/she wouldn't take the coin back and was unwavering about it? So far, I agreed to have the shipping cost deducted as well as cancel the transaction so they could get their money back, but no luck with the seller. >>

This is why buying coins, especially if they are high value ones, should be done in person at shows or dealers stores. You can inspect the coin in hand and decide if it's right for the price, and also if you're happy with the coin's condition, not withstanding the slab it may or may not be in.

Unfortunately, you are bound to the terms of the sale which are, No Returns.

Unless the seller totally misrepresented the coin there is nothing you can do.

If you decide to file a complaint through PayPal, and it should be approved and you receive your money back, the seller will roast you over the coals in feedback and this will hurt you in the long run.

You're stuck with it. Hopefully you learn a lesson from this experience to not bid on items that have No Return policy.

Good luck with your new coin.

TomB · January 26, 2011 12:23AM

If you bid on a no returns auction that had marginal images then you were likely able to get the coin for less money than if it had been an auction that allowed returns. I am of the mindset that if you bid upon a no returns auction that you are agreeing to take the risk on the coin for the potential payout of getting a quality piece for a lower auction price. Therefore, you should keep the coin and leave the seller alone. By asking to return or forcing a return you are playing both ends of this transaction by obtaining the coin for a lower market price and then sending it back as an approval sale. This is not cool and these are not the actions that I would want to see in someone.

mrpotatoheadd · January 26, 2011 12:26AM

<< The credit card company will find in your favor and you dont even have to have a good reason with them. You can just say that you changed your mind and that is it, and they supersede paypal. >>

Nice. This is just the kind of bidder eBay needs more of.

BaseballAbs · January 26, 2011 12:48AM

If you didn't like the images , why did you by the coin? You took the risk! If there was a problem with the coin like a scratch or nasty spot that the images didn't show they should have mentioned so. I think that's the seller obligation. This should only be your reason for breaking the agreement for no returns. I guess if that is the reason you want to return i can understand your concern. If this is the case i would raise that issue with Paypal/Ebay like someothers have mentioned.

BlindedByEgo · January 26, 2011 1:06AM

While I do sell all graded coins with a full return privilege on eBay, I get mildly irritated that some buyers use eBay buying as an approval service.

I've sold enough coins, and had enough repeat buyers, that I can identify those buyers. My policy is 3 returns and I block them.

Some buyers are only interested in PQ coins at rip prices. That's cool, but no seller has to play that game if they do not choose to do so.

ilikebuffaloes · January 26, 2011 1:34AM

As others have suggested, you could possibly return the coin and get your money back. You might also find your eBay name in one of those "block this buyer" posts because of it (no I'm not the seller and this is not a threat).

If a coin is in an NGC or PCGS holder and the grade is lower, then PCGS or NGC will pay you since they have a guarantee on their grades. I would always assume that the grade is correct when bidding on an auction.

In my opinion, it would be unethical to return the coin.

CaptHenway · January 26, 2011 1:44AM

<< 

<< If it was a "No Returns Accepted" auction, then I'd keep it. >>

>>

Tdec1000 · January 26, 2011 2:13AM

This thread is really starting to show the ethics of even our own forum members.

airplanenut · January 26, 2011 2:24AM

<< Open a "item not as described" dispute with paypal. Explain that the sellers description and pictures were misleading. Trust me, paypal will get the sellers side of the story and ultimately side with you and have you return the coin for a full refund to include your shipping. For future reference, there is no such thing as "no returns accepted". If you are unhappy with the product then the item is not as described, end of story. If for some reason paypal does not side with you and you paid with a credit card then you can fall back on that and file a charge back. The credit card company will find in your favor and you dont even have to have a good reason with them. You can just say that you changed your mind and that is it, and they supersede paypal. >>

Where has personal responsibility gone? It's one thing if he were truly deceived (problem free! yet it has a giant scratch), but it's completely different when a buyer just realizes the purchase wasn't such a great buy. Yes, PayPal and credit cards will generally bend over backwards for buyers, but that doesn't mean it's RIGHT.

It's a sad state of affairs to see that people have lost all personal accountability and any sense of ethics. If you enter into a deal, if both parties follow through in good faith, even if it's not what you were HOPING for, it's a done deal. Sometimes you play the game and win, sometimes you lose. The wins are greater when you gamble with riskier situations, but in that light, so are the rewards. You don't get a free bail out every time it doesn't quite work out for you as you would hope. You don't get to enter a deal knowing a way around the terms in the event that you're not happy (I bet you'd come and complain here if the seller backed out of the sale because the coin went too cheaply, too!)

So yes, you can go cry to mommy, or you can suck it up and realize that sometimes things aren't perfect, but you can't spend your whole life playing victim and blaming everyone but yourself.

If you couldn't tell, sellers don't think very highly of buyers who have your line of thought.

Coin22lover--if you couldn't tell, my opinion is that you should keep the coin.

Connecticoin · January 26, 2011 2:55AM

I still would like to see the auction listing. I don't know how anyone can weigh in on this without seeing the auction images and description of the coin.

lcoopie · January 26, 2011 2:58AM

show us the money

mrpotatoheadd · January 26, 2011 3:04AM

The OP said:

"... even though the coin is in an NGC holder, the photos were sort of marginal (typical ebay photos)."

Based on that, it appears he received the coin shown in the listing, but he's just not happy with it. If he wanted the option to return a coin which, upon examination, was not satisfactory to him, he had no business (IMO) bidding on a "no returns" auction.

Sellers get criticized here all the time when they ignore the terms of the auction and do something else- why should it be any different for buyers?

relicsncoins · January 26, 2011 3:14AM

I wouldn't even bother. I would stick it back on Ebay and be done with it. If I take a small loss so be it. If I take a large loss, then I would conclude I bid too much on the coin to begin with and learn from my lesson.

coinguy1 · January 26, 2011 3:22AM

<< The OP said:

"... even though the coin is in an NGC holder, the photos were sort of marginal (typical ebay photos)."

Based on that, it appears he received the coin shown in the listing, but he's just not happy with it. If he wanted the option to return a coin which, upon examination, was not satisfactory to him, he had no business (IMO) bidding on a "no returns" auction.

Sellers get criticized here all the time when they ignore the terms of the auction and do something else- why should it be any different for buyers? >>

It shouldn't be any different for buyers. Unfortunately, however, I think many people confuse the ability to return an item (via Paypal, credit card or other means and technicalities) with the fairness/ethics in doing so, based on the terms of the listing.

dsessom · January 26, 2011 3:30AM

<< I still would like to see the auction listing. I don't know how anyone can weigh in on this without seeing the auction images and description of the coin. >>

Well, I can only say what I would do personally, no need to see the coin...

If the auction clearly stated "No Returns", then I wouldn't even try to return it. How would you like somebody doing that to you?
On rare occasions, (years ago, not recently mind you) I have had "No return" auction specifically because I just wanted to get rid of the item. I am always as honest as I can be about the reason as well. For example, I have sold non-working laptops for parts and specifically stated No Returns. Yet, you still get people who buy it anyway without reading the entire listing, get a non-working laptop and want a refund. And of course, the seller has to eat it on listing fees, Paypal fees, and shipping - or risk a Neg. even through no fault of their own.

So, technically, you COULD return the coin and Paypal would most likely side with you. But personally, I wouldn't do it because I know what it's like. Not fun.

Ebay question - what would you do if a seller wouldn't accept a return?

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