I have not seen many gold coins in an ACG holders, so this one kind of shocks me. As far as I know it is genuine, but I could be wrong as gold really is not a specialty of mine. It looks more like AU58 to me or cleaned. It's kind of tough to judge. I do like it but I don't know if I could pull the trigger with out seeing it in hand.
The coin linked does not look mint state and the rims look suspicious. She doesn't look like obvious x jewelry but if I were to guess, that would likely be on the list of issues.
I miss my 1801, but not enough to pay $20K or thereabout for this one.
You have to be kidding me, either the lister is the biggest moron in the world, or the buyer is the biggest moron. If its real, lets say cleaned, tooled, or impaired, and genuine, PCGS or NGC would both holder the coin. If its not, well, ACG would probably holder it. I would say it is probably 18 ct. gold, so 75% of spot would be a fair bid.
The coin looks genuine, and seems to be an XF40 details, cleaned, polished and and who knows what else. It is a 10 thousand dollar coin, but not $20K, but I would not buy it for $5K unless I could see it in hand or PCGS and/or NGC could grade it. Here is the classic example of how and why the old ANACS net grading was so useful.
<< <i>Interesting. Looks genuine with AU details and cleaned. I would love to get PCGS' opinion on this - it could holder AU55. You never know! >>
It's clearly been polished, there is not a trace of any luster on that coins, hence ZERO chance it would AU with anyone. I looked at the details, it is XF details, cleaned, maybe AU before they took the polishing wheel to it.
I cannot see polishing from the photos. Cleaned? Yes! Whether it is truly UNC or AU in details, I would truly have to see the coin in hand to make that sort of judgement. I guess that I'm just not as good with regards to grading pictures as some of the 'gurus' on these boards
Didn't AGC offer a service at one time where they holdered coins without grading them and put the grade on the holder that the owner assigned? Is this one of those? --Jerry
I'd never seen an ASA holder before today. Here is some info I found on the company, although it says nothing of the coin;
ACG - ASA-Accugrade: "The founding of ACCUGRADE goes back to 1984 when Alan Hager, noted silver dollar expert, invented slab certification for coins. ACCUGRADE paved the way for the industry of coin grading. Today, over 7 million coins have been certified, generating over $140 million in fees to the coin grading services since Mr. Hager's invention in 1985. PCGS has paid Mr. Hager $100,000 for his expertise, patents, and inventions".
The slab in the photo on that auction looks authentic, and circa 1980's from the info I can find. The coin is most likely genuine but I'd treat is as raw, and for that money, I'd contact the seller and see if it could be arranged that if you submit to PCGS and it comes back "Questionable Authenticity" that you get a refund, meanwhile using an escrow to hold the funds. I don't think this is an unreasonable request and protects all parties involved.
I'm suspicious of any coin in an ACG holder, especially an expensive coin like this one. I'd be more comfortable buying a raw coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'd never seen an ASA holder before today. Here is some info I found on the company, although it says nothing of the coin;
ACG - ASA-Accugrade: "The founding of ACCUGRADE goes back to 1984 when Alan Hager, noted silver dollar expert, invented slab certification for coins. ACCUGRADE paved the way for the industry of coin grading. Today, over 7 million coins have been certified, generating over $140 million in fees to the coin grading services since Mr. Hager's invention in 1985. PCGS has paid Mr. Hager $100,000 for his expertise, patents, and inventions".
The slab in the photo on that auction looks authentic, and circa 1980's from the info I can find. The coin is most likely genuine but I'd treat is as raw, and for that money, I'd contact the seller and see if it could be arranged that if you submit to PCGS and it comes back "Questionable Authenticity" that you get a refund, meanwhile using an escrow to hold the funds. I don't think this is an unreasonable request and protects all parties involved. >>
If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned.
<< <i>If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned. >>
Quite right. I have been collecting seriously now for three years. If I have seen a holder like that, I don't remember it. There are as many newer collectors as there are old, hence why I Googled and posted the info. Just to save other "noobs" the trouble.
<< <i>If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned. >>
Quite right. I have been collecting seriously now for three years. If I have seen a holder like that, I don't remember it. There are as many newer collectors as there are old, hence why I Googled and posted the info. Just to save other "noobs" the trouble. >>
Fortunately, there are very few ACG slabs around anymore. Most coins in these slabs have been cracked out and reslabbed since that is the only way dealers could sell these coins for anywhere near their worth.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
OMG - I almost thought it was photoshopped when I first looked at it! It floors me that it would be in that holder. Even if it's a problem coin, a genny holder would be far superior - of course, that raises more "if's"
Re: ACG holders - there was a dealer at FUN set up towards that back who's case was stuffed with coins in old ACG holders - I had to admire it (maybe not the right words) for a few minutes, as kind of a reminiscence to what a lot of cases looked like ~20 years ago. I own or have owned coins in just about every holder around, when I was able to 'buy the coin' in it for the right price - but NEVER an ACG coin.
<< <i>Re: ACG holders - there was a dealer at FUN set up towards that back who's case was stuffed with coins in old ACG holders >>
I could guess who it was but he might sue me. I imagine he was quite lonely.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I wouldn't hesitate to buy an acg coin if i liked it, for the right price. Early gold is diff though as the rims are more likely in play. But, I would still take a chance but the price would take into account the likelihood of issues. The seller does offer a return, so I did make an offer commensurate with my comments above and noted similarly in my offer. Seller countered very close to the buy price so I sent seller a note that I was bowing out. Heck, Bill Leubke had a 1796 on the bay a couple months ago that appeared superior in every respect to the 1801. It was noted as mount removed or similar but with no evidence of same while in the holder. Probably a light cleaning but still lustrous. He was asking $18K. I didn't have the funds but was looking to address that when he sold it.
The 1801 isn't quite in the same league as the 1796 IMO. If I ever have a box of 20, I'd like a small eagle eagle in the box.
I'd want to tilt it in the light and take a glass to it to render an opinion. Obviously, not hitting the "buy it now", but I don't dismiss anything out of hand automatically, based on the holder or any problems.
How simple life must be for some posters! "It's not perfect, pass" is just so easy!
<< <i>Fortunately, there are very few ACG slabs around anymore. Most coins in these slabs have been cracked out and reslabbed since that is the only way dealers could sell these coins for anywhere near their worth. >>
A couple years ago I bought a 1908 Motto Saint in a ACG MS62 slab. Got it for under $1000 (raw price), cracked it and sent it to PCGS. She came back AU58. It doesn't compare value wise to this piece but it turned out to be a good purchase for me.
I think the seller would do better if they sprung to have it in a PCGS Genuine, or NCS problem slab...
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
A couple offers at or near melt might help seller appreciate that he's unlikely to see anything approaching his buy price. Heck even if with fewer problems than a reasonable degree of skepticism would attach to her, one couldn't fully assess without cracking her out.
The coin is real, the grade is not correct, but offering melt or near melt is ridiculous. Just because it is in an ACG holder doesn't mean it is a piece of garbage. I see cleaning, but I don't see heavy polishing. I would grade it low AU cleaned. 20k is too much, and I would too like to see the rims before purchasing/offer. I wouldn't mind having that coin i my collection for the right price. I have seen several under graded ACG holdered coins. I know the history, especially on the boards of ACG and Alan but that isn't my fight so I treat it just like any other coin I am going to purchase, ignoring the holder and buying the coin.
Offering melt is likely closer to the value than $20K so its no more ridiculous than the buy price. FWIW I offered well over melt and quite possibly well over value only to get a counter offer @ $18K. If the seller thinks that approximates it's value then the coin belongs in a PCGS holder so the most egregious fault would not be fodder for speculation.
I didn't say it was worth 20k, in fact I clearly stated it was not worth 20k. Believe it or not some people are able to grade and purchase coins with confidence with out them being in a pcgs holder. If you made a fair offer and it was shot down, then no worries another will show up and if your offer was fair or more than fair you will own one soon enough. Some sellers (buyers and owners too) are heck bent on what a holder says, no mater what the holder.
My point is that the melt offer suggestion is commensurate with the propriety of the buy price and as such is a credible opening offer. In PCGS gennie, at least one would have some degree of comfort that the coin isn't likely to be hiding something nefarious in the holder.
The coin appears to be genuine and matches up with the 1801 BD-2 variety in the Dannreuther - Bass book.
If it's been cleaned the cleaning is not that bad. It has AU sharpness, but I'd be concerned about the rims for ex-jewelry, and I'm concerned about the bottom part of the reverse which seems weak and disturbed.
It’s hard to believe that the owner would not try to get this coin into a better holder. Even if it’s marked “genuine” it’s worth a 5-figure number if it looks this decent in person.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Thanks all for the great comments. I had someone ask me about the coin and when I went to dismiss it based on the holder, I had trouble because the coin looked real and not that bad to me, thus my need for more expert comments (gold isn't my focus area). Given that this guy doesn't know gold at all either, I don't see this coin being good for him but I can now make more constructive comments. --Jerry
FYI, in case anyone is looking to buy this coin. Another forum member PMd me that he sent the seller a note and got back a note. The seller indicated that it went to PCGS and came back with rim issues. However, the word "bent" was used instead of "filed". Used by the seller. We don't know for sure what PCGS says. --Jerry
Even in the day, no one would have put a coin like that into an ACG holder without a reason.
As a dealer I bought one ACG graded piece in 12 years. That was a common Hard Times token that had nothing wrong with it. ACG actually get the grade right. But I cracked out to sell. I didn't want that holder in my case.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
100% chance the coin has problems. 50% chance the coin is counterfiet. 25% chance the seller knows one/both. 0% a buyer will be happy when he recieves the coin.
this is what i like to call my law of diminishing returns.
notwilight
Posts: 12,864 ✭✭✭
Comments
siliconvalleycoins.com
I miss my 1801, but not enough to pay $20K or thereabout for this one.
Bring it to a show, let me see it. Maybe.
But eBay? ACG? Weird!
I have never seen an 1801 eagle before
I have seen an ACG slab before (the slab looks authentic, but not sure)
the survival estimates are the same as listed in coinfacts
<< <i>Interesting. Looks genuine with AU details and cleaned. I would love to get PCGS' opinion on this - it could holder AU55. You never know! >>
It's clearly been polished, there is not a trace of any luster on that coins, hence ZERO chance it would AU with anyone. I looked at the details, it is XF details, cleaned, maybe AU before they took the polishing wheel to it.
Gary
Seller has plenty of PCGS, NGC and ICG coins for sale on ebay also, yet he chooses to sell this coin on ebay in ACG holder.
ACG - ASA-Accugrade: "The founding of ACCUGRADE goes back to 1984 when Alan Hager, noted silver dollar expert, invented slab certification for coins. ACCUGRADE paved the way for the industry of coin grading. Today, over 7 million coins have been certified, generating over $140 million in fees to the coin grading services since Mr. Hager's invention in 1985. PCGS has paid Mr. Hager $100,000 for his expertise, patents, and inventions".
in business since:1984
holder size: small
website: http://www.asa-accugrade.com
email: certified@asa-accugrade.com
phone number: (407) 327-1449 Fax: (407) 327-3372
* This company may have gone out of business
The slab in the photo on that auction looks authentic, and circa 1980's from the info I can find. The coin is most likely genuine but I'd treat is as raw, and for that money, I'd contact the seller and see if it could be arranged that if you submit to PCGS and it comes back "Questionable Authenticity" that you get a refund, meanwhile using an escrow to hold the funds. I don't think this is an unreasonable request and protects all parties involved.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I'd never seen an ASA holder before today. Here is some info I found on the company, although it says nothing of the coin;
ACG - ASA-Accugrade: "The founding of ACCUGRADE goes back to 1984 when Alan Hager, noted silver dollar expert, invented slab certification for coins. ACCUGRADE paved the way for the industry of coin grading. Today, over 7 million coins have been certified, generating over $140 million in fees to the coin grading services since Mr. Hager's invention in 1985. PCGS has paid Mr. Hager $100,000 for his expertise, patents, and inventions".
in business since:1984
holder size: small
website: http://www.asa-accugrade.com
email: certified@asa-accugrade.com
phone number: (407) 327-1449 Fax: (407) 327-3372
* This company may have gone out of business
The slab in the photo on that auction looks authentic, and circa 1980's from the info I can find. The coin is most likely genuine but I'd treat is as raw, and for that money, I'd contact the seller and see if it could be arranged that if you submit to PCGS and it comes back "Questionable Authenticity" that you get a refund, meanwhile using an escrow to hold the funds. I don't think this is an unreasonable request and protects all parties involved. >>
If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned.
<< <i>I'd be more comfortable buying a raw coin. >>
Me too, since at least you'd be able to examine the rim before buying it.
<< <i>If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned. >>
Quite right. I have been collecting seriously now for three years. If I have seen a holder like that, I don't remember it. There are as many newer collectors as there are old, hence why I Googled and posted the info. Just to save other "noobs" the trouble.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you have never seen an ACG holder before today, then you must be new to coin collecting. ACG was around for years and years. They had their own grading standards, which many felt were below standard (likewise with PCI, NTC, etc). There was a forum member who used to post here often that worked day and night until the company was put out of business. That member no longer posts here, because he was banned. >>
Quite right. I have been collecting seriously now for three years. If I have seen a holder like that, I don't remember it. There are as many newer collectors as there are old, hence why I Googled and posted the info. Just to save other "noobs" the trouble.
Fortunately, there are very few ACG slabs around anymore. Most coins in these slabs have been cracked out and reslabbed since that is the only way dealers could sell these coins for anywhere near their worth.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Re: ACG holders - there was a dealer at FUN set up towards that back who's case was stuffed with coins in old ACG holders - I had to admire it (maybe not the right words) for a few minutes, as kind of a reminiscence to what a lot of cases looked like ~20 years ago. I own or have owned coins in just about every holder around, when I was able to 'buy the coin' in it for the right price - but NEVER an ACG coin.
<< <i>Re: ACG holders - there was a dealer at FUN set up towards that back who's case was stuffed with coins in old ACG holders >>
I could guess who it was but he might sue me. I imagine he was quite lonely.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The 1801 isn't quite in the same league as the 1796 IMO. If I ever have a box of 20, I'd like a small eagle eagle in the box.
edited for the double "the"
How simple life must be for some posters! "It's not perfect, pass" is just so easy!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Fortunately, there are very few ACG slabs around anymore. Most coins in these slabs have been cracked out and reslabbed since that is the only way dealers could sell these coins for anywhere near their worth. >>
A couple years ago I bought a 1908 Motto Saint in a ACG MS62 slab. Got it for under $1000 (raw price), cracked it and sent it to PCGS. She came back AU58. It doesn't compare value wise to this piece but it turned out to be a good purchase for me.
If you do, you just might hit the jackpot. And even if you roll snake eyes on this one, you can sell the coin for close to what you paid for it.
If it's been cleaned the cleaning is not that bad. It has AU sharpness, but I'd be concerned about the rims for ex-jewelry, and I'm concerned about the bottom part of the reverse which seems weak and disturbed.
It’s hard to believe that the owner would not try to get this coin into a better holder. Even if it’s marked “genuine” it’s worth a 5-figure number if it looks this decent in person.
As a dealer I bought one ACG graded piece in 12 years. That was a common Hard Times token that had nothing wrong with it. ACG actually get the grade right. But I cracked out to sell. I didn't want that holder in my case.
eBay Linky
50% chance the coin is counterfiet.
25% chance the seller knows one/both.
0% a buyer will be happy when he recieves the coin.
this is what i like to call my law of diminishing returns.