I went into my new safe deposit boxes in my bank which recently installed safe deposit boxes and ...
oreville
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I went into my new safe deposit boxes in my bank which recently installed safe deposit boxes and ..........they were FREEZING IN MY HANDS AND ARMS!!!!!!! I WAS SHOCKED.
I then realized that the vault room was very very cold as well. All of my slabbed coins are in intercept boxes. True, it was in the low 20's today, but I had never experienced anything like this before in my other bank safe deposit boxes in other banks.
There is a glass door between the bank vault room blocking 80% of the air flow between the vault room and the rest of the bank and it appeared that the vault room was located on an outside wall. I then inquired if there was any heat or a/c duct going into the vault room. It appeared that there was none (standard protocol to me).
I am now contemplating obtaining a thermometer and a humidity gauge (hydrometer?) and putting them in each bank in which my safe deposit boxes are located!!!!! I may have to close these two safe deposit boxes which I had only opened six months ago.
I am now concerned that with the newer bank or bank renovating their space and then installing or re-installing safe deposit boxes in vault rooms that they are not paying attention to proper insulation heat and cold-wise for the vault room itself.
While I understand that some temperature swings are not harmful to coins, I am still concerned that enough of a temperature swing hot to cold and back to hot can cause problems for coins due to possible condensation, etc., etc.
Any thoughts, experiences that you would like to share?
I then realized that the vault room was very very cold as well. All of my slabbed coins are in intercept boxes. True, it was in the low 20's today, but I had never experienced anything like this before in my other bank safe deposit boxes in other banks.
There is a glass door between the bank vault room blocking 80% of the air flow between the vault room and the rest of the bank and it appeared that the vault room was located on an outside wall. I then inquired if there was any heat or a/c duct going into the vault room. It appeared that there was none (standard protocol to me).
I am now contemplating obtaining a thermometer and a humidity gauge (hydrometer?) and putting them in each bank in which my safe deposit boxes are located!!!!! I may have to close these two safe deposit boxes which I had only opened six months ago.
I am now concerned that with the newer bank or bank renovating their space and then installing or re-installing safe deposit boxes in vault rooms that they are not paying attention to proper insulation heat and cold-wise for the vault room itself.
While I understand that some temperature swings are not harmful to coins, I am still concerned that enough of a temperature swing hot to cold and back to hot can cause problems for coins due to possible condensation, etc., etc.
Any thoughts, experiences that you would like to share?
A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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Comments
merse
It appears I have to check first thing in the morning after the vault is opened to see the temp/humidity, then after a few hours when the doors are opened to interact with the heavily heated air of the bank itself, then check again in the warmest part of the day to see how wide the temp/humidity swing is.
Even with the intercept boxes, zip lock freezer bags and dessicants, dealing with these temperature swings, if the temperature swings are significant enough, means I have got to yank the slabbed coins out of there!
<< <i>if possible switch your SDB to an available box not on an outside wall. that may help a little. >>
Good point, but unfortunately, all the boxes are only on the one wall and it happens to be all southern exposure wall which makes me worry even more about the temperature swings.
I never even thought one ever had to worry about these things with coin storage before because banks used to plan their vault locations carefully but have now gotten so SLOPPY in their planning???
Unbelievable!
Those little plastic patterns......OMG....sudden temp changes, shattering inside the slabs!!
YIKES!
It bothered me a little bit, but then I rationalized that it probably did not matter for the following reasons:
1. Most of my collection is gold, and gold is not reactive.
2. Most of my collection (at the time) was southern gold from before 1866. It is likely that the coins have inhabited far more harsh environments from the early days of their existence. For example, I doubt that they were getting any hotter in the SDB than they were in the 1850's in summer in New Orleans.
3. The temperature swings were likely fairly gradual.
4. I did not notice any change in the appearance of the coins over the years.
5. I never heard of anyone else having any problems with this, including folks with collections that were far more valuable than mine.
My reasoning may not be correct on all accounts, but my concern was still probably unfounded. I decided to not spend much effort worrying about it. Had I collected paper money, stamps, or expensive toners, I might have felt differently.
And since you have a number of 1942 patterns in strange alloys, you should do some research to determine if there's also risk to those particular coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What do you teach?
does dew form when air is cooled or air is heated?
Not sure if you're trying to talk relative humidity or absolute humidity but there appears to be some mis-info in your post.
--Jerry
linky
<< <i>
Because a robber usually can't put a gun to your wife's or kid's head and force you to open your SDB. If they should happen to find a safe in your home, they may or may not make you an offer to open it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>My previous safety deposit box was in a location, high in a room, that was very warm in the winter. For whatever reason, the winter heating of the large room was uneven, and my coins were probably experiencing temps in the 80's while the rest of the room was in the 70's.
My reasoning may not be correct on all accounts, but my concern was still probably unfounded. I decided to not spend much effort worrying about it. Had I collected paper money, stamps, or expensive toners, I might have felt differently. >>
A temperature variation of 10 degrees is nothing to get excited about. Now if you keep them in the freezer like some might do [they say robbers usually don't look in there] take them out and go right into the bathroom in which you had just taken a hot shower; that might be a practice to avoid. If I leave a hunting firearm in my vehicle overnight in the winter and bring it into the house the next day, I always keep it in the case for a day or so to let it gradually warm up.
The thing is to avoid extremes in temperature or humidity change and not worry about small variations. For coins, collectibles or other valuables including documents, I'd avoid excessively humid environments.
I am primarily a paper money collector, but I do collect coins-mostly silver and soon gold! I stumbled across this 'thread' and thought I would add my two cents...
Being a collector of paper money I was very concerned over this issue, as I store all my graded notes in a safe deposit box. Therefore, my answer is more geared towards paper money, as I can't answer for coins...yet...
I asked the Primary Grader at PMG (owned by NGC-a paper money grading service) about whether it was safe to store notes in this kind of environment and they answered it was not only safe but recommended. Now granted I live in Pennsylvania, so we have gradual changes of weather all year round. That being said, you have a greater chance of losing a valuable to theft or fire than you do to damage in a safe deposit box provided you take some precautions. I use silica gel 40 gram aluminum packs that I buy from eBay. I put two in the box, and yes I can confirm, it does get cold in my safe deposit box. It does not bother me, as banks were meant to store vast amounts of money, as that is what PMG told me on the phone.
I can also state that when it comes to collecting paper money (not coins) the most problems I see are faded notes, not humidity. People seem to think that because a note was professionally graded and is encased in plastic they can display it anywhere...including direct sunlight. There are way too many notes I will not buy simply because they are faded and don't deserve the grade they were given. I prefer notes that are stored in safe deposit boxes and I know a great number of dealers that do this and tell their customers to as well...
Sorry to talk primarily about paper currency, but coins I have yet to store in a safe deposit box, but due to the nature and plastic slabs, I see your concern. Most graded currency is heat sealed, slabbed coins are not. This is a big difference. Still, I see no reason in putting coins in a safe deposit box, as it is recommended by a lot of dealers and collectors. Again, just use precaution (i.e. silica gel is your new best friend).
I hope that helps and I am sorry if I should not have posted it here, as this is a coin forum, and my experience lies with graded currency.
By the way, I would be concerned if I collected 'raw currency or unslabbed coins...'
This is just my opinion, but overall, a lot of grading companies and collectors seem to find it the acceptable way to store items of high value...
Sincerely,
mintcollector
home so the garage is where it is. The garage is neither cooled or heated. Summer
gets well over 120 degrees and winter gets routinely into the 20's and occasionally
colder. He has never experienced any problems with his proof sets, raw coins in tubes
or graded coins. He does not keep coins loose in the safe. All are in some kind of
container whether mint made or PCGS made or such.
We do not have a humidity problem (at least it is rare) here in the desert. Heat and
cool is not a problem, it seems. The little moisture absorbing packs are cheap and most
can be reused by reactivating in the microwave. That would be my suggestion.
I would worry about metals other than silver/gold. Steel cents and patterns on tin and
such would be a great worry with humid conditions, to me.
bob
Unless you brought that safe home with no one else in the world aware of it's purchase or movements, you've bought a bill board.
roadrunner
<< <i>I have a friend here in Vegas who has a safe in his garage. It's too big to get into his
home so the garage is where it is. The garage is neither cooled or heated. Summer
gets well over 120 degrees and winter gets routinely into the 20's and occasionally
colder. He has never experienced any problems with his proof sets, raw coins in tubes
or graded coins. He does not keep coins loose in the safe. All are in some kind of
container whether mint made or PCGS made or such.
We do not have a humidity problem (at least it is rare) here in the desert. Heat and
cool is not a problem, it seems. The little moisture absorbing packs are cheap and most
can be reused by reactivating in the microwave. That would be my suggestion.
I would worry about metals other than silver/gold. Steel cents and patterns on tin and
such would be a great worry with humid conditions, to me.
bob >>
Those changes are more gradual than abrupt and a large object changes temperature more slowly than a small object does. A packed away coin in a full safe will change in temperature more slowly than the same coin sitting out on top of the safe.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have a friend here in Vegas who has a safe in his garage. It's too big to get into his
home so the garage is where it is. The garage is neither cooled or heated. Summer
gets well over 120 degrees and winter gets routinely into the 20's and occasionally
colder. He has never experienced any problems with his proof sets, raw coins in tubes
or graded coins. He does not keep coins loose in the safe. All are in some kind of
container whether mint made or PCGS made or such.
We do not have a humidity problem (at least it is rare) here in the desert. Heat and
cool is not a problem, it seems. The little moisture absorbing packs are cheap and most
can be reused by reactivating in the microwave. That would be my suggestion.
I would worry about metals other than silver/gold. Steel cents and patterns on tin and
such would be a great worry with humid conditions, to me.
bob >>
Those changes are more gradual than abrupt and a large object changes temperature more slowly than a small object does. A packed away coin in a full safe will change in temperature more slowly than the same coin sitting out on top of the safe. >>
I think that's exactly what I said. Heat and cold are not the problem. IT's the moisture that I'd worry about.
bob
<< <i>
...temperatures tend to be relatively constant under ones bed.
<< <i>Just more justification for a nice safe at home. Will never understand the SDB fixation. Cheers, RickO
Unless you brought that safe home with no one else in the world aware of it's purchase or movements, you've bought a bill board.
roadrunner >>
+1
I was actually quite worried about a safe deposit box at first, as well. This is why I started multiple threads about it on paper money collecting forums, but alas, I admit, I cannot speak for coins, only paper money...which actually isn't composed of all that much paper anyway...
Home safes have a lot of other problems. They hold moisture a lot worse than safe deposit boxes as well. Ironically, as you can read on the CGC collecting forums, they are not good for storing comic books, but safe deposit boxes are approved. Home safes, especially those made of concrete hold a lot of moisture which can rust the staples of comic books and can speed up tarnishing of silver...do a 'google' search to learn more...
<< <i>
<< <i>
I would worry about metals other than silver/gold. Steel cents and patterns on tin and
such would be a great worry with humid conditions, to me.
bob >>
Yes, and: Copper, copper, copper!
When copper gets moist, it's natural return to its 'normal', crystalline state, is dramatically accelerated. >>
Oh carp, I forgot about copper. Do people collect that stuff?
Oh and forget about moisture and slabs. If slabs are sealed there is no problem with moisture inside (you know,
it's sealed). If they are not sealed, they too, will adjust to the ambient temperature and humidity and condensation
will not form then either.
bob
<< <i>Desiccants and freezer-quality ziplock bags are your friend.
Butch Coolidge's watch was stored in an environment with a relatively constant temperature, and it held up quite well. Still, I wouldn't recommend storing your coins in a similar manner.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I have a friend here in Vegas who has a safe in his garage. It's too big to get into his
home so the garage is where it is. The garage is neither cooled or heated. Summer
gets well over 120 degrees and winter gets routinely into the 20's and occasionally
colder. He has never experienced any problems with his proof sets, raw coins in tubes
or graded coins. He does not keep coins loose in the safe. All are in some kind of
container whether mint made or PCGS made or such.
We do not have a humidity problem (at least it is rare) here in the desert. Heat and
cool is not a problem, it seems. The little moisture absorbing packs are cheap and most
can be reused by reactivating in the microwave. That would be my suggestion.
I would worry about metals other than silver/gold. Steel cents and patterns on tin and
such would be a great worry with humid conditions, to me.
bob >>
He's OK because there's no humidity in Vegas. Anywhere in the east or south, I'd worry about condensation forming in the slab.
Find a new bank!
He's OK because there's no humidity in Vegas. Anywhere in the east or south, I'd worry about condensation forming in the slab.
Find a new bank! >>
This is a fallacy. Reason being, like most storage units (climate controlled or otherwise); close to 90% or more of bank vaults that house safe deposit boxes are made with the same 'cookie cutter design' just like any other bank. Example: When I shopped around for my safe deposit box I called numerous banks and actually saw the inside of numerous safe deposit boxes; even managers and VP's of banks I know quite well tell me the truth; that there are virtually NO TRUE climate controlled safe deposit boxes. The temperature fluctuates due to the opening of the vault door and there is generally only one 'air duct' inside a bank vault. It allows air flow that is it. Any bank that tells you otherwise and is built like a 'modern age bank' is probably lying to you. I personally, would never store items in a safe deposit box that is underground. That is just asking for trouble, but some banks in Pennsylvania (where I reside) actually do this...
If you don't believe me, do your own research on the matter and do what I did; I called the company that grades the items I am going to store (in this case PMG and PCGS Currency) and asked them about the situation). I also have multiple boxes rented at multiple banks in the event something would go wrong at one bank (it is highly unlikely though). PMG actually told me they prefer the use of safe deposit boxes for the storage of graded currency.
Again, I cannot speak for coins, however, I am going to eventually be storing coins in a safe deposit box so this 'thread' caught my eye. As for now I am primarily a paper money collector.
It is however, a very good idea to store silica gel canisters in your bank's safe deposit box. These do help and are very cheap. Keep in mind that before the collecting public started 'cherishing' these kind of antiques and collectibles; the storage conditions of such items were a lot worse. The amount of damage that occurred to these great treasures generally happened through mishandling and severe improper storage (i.e. placing an 'educational note' in a book in a garage or storing a coin in the wrong kind of holder). I have yet to hear too many cases of items being damaged in safe deposit boxes (without a natural disater or flooding being the cause). I have heard of a great deal of collectibles (especially graded comic books and the like) being damaged by home safes, gun safes, and meeting their fate through theft...
I will say this though. Whatever method of storage you choose is entirely up to you and you can always change your mind as your collection or needs change. Nothing has to be permanent. In fact the only thing constant in this world is change...(no pun intended)...
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......