The local B&M’s just crack me up.
piecesofme
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Making the rounds today, after Silver having a roughly 4% 2 day dip, I thought I’d see what the locals had. I was just in the local B&M’s on Tuesday I should mention, and all but one had plenty of 90%, .999 Au & Ag. I made a few offers but they all wanted too much at the time. I figured I’d keep the powder dry and see what happens.
So I go back today to all of them and low and behold, they ALL have nothing…I mean nothing. No 90%, no .999 of any kind to speak of. I asked each one, “what happened to all of what you had Tuesday?” They all (basically) said, that they took everything (90% & .999) out of the display cases because of Spot being down so much and they didn’t want to sell over the weekend. I said, “so you have the stuff, you just don’t want to sell to the general public, can I get in on some if you have it?” They asked, “for how much?” I said, "just a little less than what I offered you Tuesday being it’s down 4%.”
Again, I basically got the same answer from all, which was, “I’m into it for too much and I’d still need what you offered Tuesday.”
I said, “ I get the hint, I’ll be back when Spot hits $25.”
Hey, at least they were honest with me, which I respect because I’ve been dealing with these guys for a number of years, but I just couldn’t help myself from chuckling knowing full well these guys are B&M’s...the Kings of the lowballers. That’s how they stay in business, I understand that and I'm not knocking that. They gotta do what they have to just like the rest of us. But man, talk about being tight with the $/merchandise LOL.
So I go back today to all of them and low and behold, they ALL have nothing…I mean nothing. No 90%, no .999 of any kind to speak of. I asked each one, “what happened to all of what you had Tuesday?” They all (basically) said, that they took everything (90% & .999) out of the display cases because of Spot being down so much and they didn’t want to sell over the weekend. I said, “so you have the stuff, you just don’t want to sell to the general public, can I get in on some if you have it?” They asked, “for how much?” I said, "just a little less than what I offered you Tuesday being it’s down 4%.”
Again, I basically got the same answer from all, which was, “I’m into it for too much and I’d still need what you offered Tuesday.”
I said, “ I get the hint, I’ll be back when Spot hits $25.”
Hey, at least they were honest with me, which I respect because I’ve been dealing with these guys for a number of years, but I just couldn’t help myself from chuckling knowing full well these guys are B&M’s...the Kings of the lowballers. That’s how they stay in business, I understand that and I'm not knocking that. They gotta do what they have to just like the rest of us. But man, talk about being tight with the $/merchandise LOL.
To forgive is to free a prisoner, and to discover that prisoner was you.
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"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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LOL! Now you're cracking me up. Maybe you missed the part where I said I was chuckling about the whole scenario and I completely understand why they're doing what they're doing???
One other point to think of is...if you wont sell anything, by your own choice, and those bills still come every month, what money are you going to pay them with if you choose not to sell anything? LMAO!!! Would you rather get into your savings to pay stinkin' bills? or sell some stuff even if it's at cost to keep the moneyflow going? "do you have a clue?" Getting inot savings puts you back...selling at cost at the very least enables you to have cash. It's your choice lol.
Take it easy, not a big deal. Was just sharing what I thought was an amusing little story of todays events.
worried if i was an owner getting stuck with a lot of silver in a bear month or year.
at what point do you decide to let it go at a loss to pay your bills? being stubborn
is a good way to have a small loss turn into a huge loss.
seems to me it would average itself out over time if you just be consistent and
get rid of it as fast as you can.
<< <i>What a really smart shop would have done is sell at a loss but at the normal sell level for the current spot, take the proceeds and buy in at a lower level so that the next buyer would be able to buy and make the dealer a profit. >>
You're assuming people are going to sell their silver at todays lower price although a few will do just that.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>What a really smart shop would have done is sell at a loss but at the normal sell level for the current spot, take the proceeds and buy in at a lower level so that the next buyer would be able to buy and make the dealer a profit. >>
You're assuming people are going to sell their silver at todays lower price although a few will do just that. >>
Yes, you are right. There will always be somone selling at the current price.
(My resolution is that for the rest of the day, I will start every post with "Yes, you are right.")
I dont know if it's so much that more than they dont want to take what is now a loss. It's like selling a bad traded stock. It's not a loss unless you actually sell it. I think it's more that than being bullish. They're fairly loaded with 90%, more so with .999 and at this point would just like to get even. Just my take based on what most say.
Fear and greed. You can always count on those two emotions.
<< <i>Making the rounds today, after Silver having a roughly 4% 2 day dip, I thought I’d see what the locals had. I was just in the local B&M’s on Tuesday I should mention, and all but one had plenty of 90%, .999 Au & Ag. I made a few offers but they all wanted too much at the time. I figured I’d keep the powder dry and see what happens.
So I go back today to all of them and low and behold, they ALL have nothing…I mean nothing. No 90%, no .999 of any kind to speak of. I asked each one, “what happened to all of what you had Tuesday?” They all (basically) said, that they took everything (90% & .999) out of the display cases because of Spot being down so much and they didn’t want to sell over the weekend. I said, “so you have the stuff, you just don’t want to sell to the general public, can I get in on some if you have it?” They asked, “for how much?” I said, "just a little less than what I offered you Tuesday being it’s down 4%.”
Again, I basically got the same answer from all, which was, “I’m into it for too much and I’d still need what you offered Tuesday.”
I said, “ I get the hint, I’ll be back when Spot hits $25.”
Hey, at least they were honest with me, which I respect because I’ve been dealing with these guys for a number of years, but I just couldn’t help myself from chuckling knowing full well these guys are B&M’s...the Kings of the lowballers. That’s how they stay in business, I understand that and I'm not knocking that. They gotta do what they have to just like the rest of us. But man, talk about being tight with the $/merchandise LOL. >>
I guess I understand everything - that is, except for the humor part.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>You mean the bowel movement shops...
lmao,
how much were they asking?
I'm sorry, and Adrian is?
Of course when silver starts to really move upwards, they want to gouge you fearing that their replacement cost will be higher then their selling price. Dealers!
OH YEAH! That darn replacement cost is always the standard line. Goes something like this:
"if I had to go out and replace the amount you're wanting to buy (usually alot, I buy in volume) it would cost me $X...why would I do that when I can sell (but the word that should be used here is rape) it to someone (someone who doesnt know how much it's worth) for more a few pieces at a time (at a much higher cost)."
how much were they asking?
When Spot was $29.20, most of them wanted $20.75 for 90%. One wanted $21.00.
When Spot was hangin on for dear life to stay above $28.00 Friday, they all still wanted Tuesdays price...$20.75 x face.
<< <i>Anyone have a good feel for what a fair buy price from a B&M would be for 40% and 90% silver? How much of a margin does a fair dealer try to make on this stuff? >>
my guess would be a fair dealer tries to make 3 to 25% profit on silver depending on the quality & quantity that they are selling.
I remember in 1980/81 paying 20X face for 90% silver and selling for 21X face. (minimum purchase was 500.00).
If it was a pick and chose and under 500 dollars then we charged 23X face value for 90% silver. (except for all those 16-D, 21 & 01-S dimes,quarters & halves that we got for 20X times face
took a bath on 2 bags of 90% when the market dropped/crashed back in 1980/81 had 20X face in it and was happy as a lark selling it for 17X face , because the next few days/week it went from 17X face down to 12X face.
rule of thumb was keep the money rolling & turning over and hopefully the pile of money kept getting bigger.
<< <i>Anyone have a good feel for what a fair buy price from a B&M would be for 40% and 90% silver? How much of a margin does a fair dealer try to make on this stuff? >>
I don't believe you will ever get a fair price from a B&M; that's why I buy/sell at a local show (much lower overhead).
Well, it's down about 4% since Mondays high. When I went back Friday after my initial visit Tuesday of this past week, that's how much Spot dropped. So rather than breaking even with possible sales over the weekend (not knowing what each B&M is actually into what they have), they pull it and hope it pops early next week. Some have said on this thread that this is a very common practice of the B&M's. It's just the first time I noticed all 5 doing it the same day LOL!
<< <i>
<< <i>Anyone have a good feel for what a fair buy price from a B&M would be for 40% and 90% silver? How much of a margin does a fair dealer try to make on this stuff? >>
I don't believe you will ever get a fair price from a B&M; that's why I buy/sell at a local show (much lower overhead). >>
With the rise of robust coin trading on the internet, the economics of B&M shops are just wrong. The only way they stand a chance of making it is by having really low ball offers and huge spreads. A dying business model. This refers to the more 'generic' B&M shops of course, and those not backed up by a robust internet presence.
I agree, good shops will have a way to hedge, either through etf's or the futures markets, so a dollar or 2 drop or hike is actually an advantage, as it shakes up the market and creates a little excitement.
Find places to shop where the owners enjoy taking a little risk, and like to write checks on the spot and appreciate you walking in the door. Avoid the curmudgeons
<< <i>
With the rise of robust coin trading on the internet, the economics of B&M shops are just wrong. The only way they stand a chance of making it is by having really low ball offers and huge spreads. A dying business model. This refers to the more 'generic' B&M shops of course, and those not backed up by a robust internet presence. >>
It's those low ball offers and extremely high prices that often hurt them. One local dealer here will only pay 70% or so of spot and sell at 125%. Everyone takes him as a joke, and I'm not quite sure how he has stayed in business. All of his prices are inflated. He sells problem coins at non-problem coin levels and even his common date modern stuff (i.e. modern proof sets, etc.) at two times what the other dealers ask for them. I fully understand that he is running a business, but when the next lowest dealer offer is much, much higher than yours, something is wrong.
<< <i>Its dangerous to lump all B and M stores all in one basket. Personally I dont frequent the ones that have an aura of "fear" mentioned above, and usually you can tell right away because it seeps into the way they conduct business overall.
I agree, good shops will have a way to hedge, either through etf's or the futures markets, so a dollar or 2 drop or hike is actually an advantage, as it shakes up the market and creates a little excitement.
Find places to shop where the owners enjoy taking a little risk, and like to write checks on the spot and appreciate you walking in the door. Avoid the curmudgeons
I disagree. My favorite local dealer pays fair, and has since I first met him. He's become a friend, and I've sent several knowledgeable people to him with excellent reports back.
He loves coins and for a young guy (just south of 30) knows a lot. Comes from 3 generations of coin dealers. He works in volume with scrap and bullion, and has learned that he couldn't make it just on collector coins.
If he is the model of the future, B&M's will be around for a while to come.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>
<< <i>
With the rise of robust coin trading on the internet, the economics of B&M shops are just wrong. The only way they stand a chance of making it is by having really low ball offers and huge spreads. A dying business model. This refers to the more 'generic' B&M shops of course, and those not backed up by a robust internet presence. >>
It's those low ball offers and extremely high prices that often hurt them. One local dealer here will only pay 70% or so of spot and sell at 125%. Everyone takes him as a joke, and I'm not quite sure how he has stayed in business. All of his prices are inflated. He sells problem coins at non-problem coin levels and even his common date modern stuff (i.e. modern proof sets, etc.) at two times what the other dealers ask for them. I fully understand that he is running a business, but when the next lowest dealer offer is much, much higher than yours, something is wrong. >>
Yeah, everybody takes him as a joke. Except for the recent widow who walks into his shop to do the only coin transaction of her life. No one told her about him.
<< <i>
<< <i>Its dangerous to lump all B and M stores all in one basket. Personally I dont frequent the ones that have an aura of "fear" mentioned above, and usually you can tell right away because it seeps into the way they conduct business overall.
I agree, good shops will have a way to hedge, either through etf's or the futures markets, so a dollar or 2 drop or hike is actually an advantage, as it shakes up the market and creates a little excitement.
Find places to shop where the owners enjoy taking a little risk, and like to write checks on the spot and appreciate you walking in the door. Avoid the curmudgeons
I disagree. My favorite local dealer pays fair, and has since I first met him. He's become a friend, and I've sent several knowledgeable people to him with excellent reports back.
He loves coins and for a young guy (just south of 30) knows a lot. Comes from 3 generations of coin dealers. He works in volume with scrap and bullion, and has learned that he couldn't make it just on collector coins.
If he is the model of the future, B&M's will be around for a while to come. >>
Thats what I said, so what are you disagreeing with?
<< <i>
<< <i>....... I understand that and I'm not knocking that. They gotta do what they have to just like the rest of us. But man, talk about being tight with the $/merchandise LOL. >>
I guess I understand everything - that is, except for the humor part. >>
OK, now that was funny.
There's one of them dealers around here too. I really po'd him one time, but he deserved it. We were going back and forth on a raw Morgan as to the grade because it was one of those that had a significant price jump from one grade to the next. Since we couldn't agree on the grade, I proposed that we meet in the middle and that's what i'd pay. He got all upset, saying I dont know how to grade and blah blah blah. He then says, "I've got more (inventory) than anyone in the area, where' are you going to find this kind of selection around here?" I said, "there's a reason you may have more than anyone in the area...but I bet you dont have more than the internet does."
He got so red in the face, I bet his blood pressure was thru the roof. We've kissed and made up since, but I still call him KGB now because of how red he got that time
not going to be in the red unless the price drops 25%.
I sell to a friend of mine who takes everything stright to a smelter and he gets spot -3% and he locks in when he makes large purchases how can you lose??
<< <i>seems like the B&Ms you visit... they are very very bullish on silver. i would be
worried if i was an owner getting stuck with a lot of silver in a bear month or year.
at what point do you decide to let it go at a loss to pay your bills? being stubborn
is a good way to have a small loss turn into a huge loss.
seems to me it would average itself out over time if you just be consistent and
get rid of it as fast as you can. >>
Exactly. Any good successful B&M moves out their inventory on a nearly daily basis. They know it is better to make the 5-10% by committing their silver everyday rather than to try to time the market. They do have a 7-day hold--at least in NY-- so thats enough risk. When it comes off hold, its gone. Any B&Ms that try to play the market are destined to failure.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
the owner bought a mansion and a bunch of music boxes, then declared bankruptcy.
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<< <i>A mom & pop shop might not pay as much, but you will never get a letter from a court demanding the money back because
the owner bought a mansion and a bunch of music boxes, then declared bankruptcy. >>
I don't know that this is true. Most mom and pop shops are thinly capitalized, and much more so than a large national dealership. These are the ones that are likely to go under. P.S. Are you aware of an actual situation where this has happened? I thought that most corporate bankruptcies would leave these sales alone, especially if it was a straight liquidation Ch7 unless there was a huge discrepancy in price. I thought reorganization chapters would also allow for this, but I could be wrong.
<< <i>I don't know that this is true. Most mom and pop shops are thinly capitalized, and much more so than a large national dealership. These are the ones that are likely to go under. P.S. Are you aware of an actual situation where this has happened? I thought that most corporate bankruptcies would leave these sales alone, especially if it was a straight liquidation Ch7 unless there was a huge discrepancy in price. I thought reorganization chapters would also allow for this, but I could be wrong. >>
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