1913 type 2 Buffalo Nickel newp....Tell me what ya think....Images added to compare...Discussion

crazyhounddog

I just picked this piece up raw, but I think it's a score. I would grade this piece at least 65 with a real good shot at a 66. But tell me what you think, the luster is very bright and these type 2 1913 Buffs are kinda tough in higher grades...Thanks for looking and any comments are welcome.....Joe Oh and also I am using some new light for my imaging, I really like these lights!!!





Here's one we can compare, PCGS MS-65....This is a nice piece, no question about that, but how does this one compare to the raw type 2??

seanq

I'd grade it a 64 due to some strike weakness. I'm looking at the marks at the top of the braid and the buffalo's foreleg and assuming those areas are like the jaw on a Jefferson, where marks on the planchet were not smoothed out by the strike.

I should add a disclaimer that I'm not a Buffalo collector and the picture is enormous which make the marks look more distracting than in hand.


Sean Reynolds

robec

Very nice Joe. I don't think the strike is weak at all, just the result of eroded dies or late die state.

JupitarCoins

I say 64 with a slight chance at a 65.
Nice looking coin

PonyExpress8

Nice coin. I think you have a decent shot at a 65 but 66 seems a bit of a reach to me. I like her as I have liked most of your coins.

ponderit

Beautiful coin. I'd say a definite 65 with a shot at 66 on a good day.

shasta7

Nice coin... but must agree with others as far as grade... MS-64 may be the high as coin is struck weakly

coinbuf

Nice coin and as others have said I think 64 max due to a slightly weak strike and a few too many small nicks and ticks.

crazyhounddog

The strike on the raw coin looks stronger to me, and the luster on the raw coin also is stronger. So with that said do you think the very minor nicks and ticks will hold this coin back to a 64?

keets

the top coin appears to have a weaker strike and also to be a later die state showing signs of erosion to me.

drei3ree

65 would be a gift. Nice coin, but exceptional pics!

Raybo

I agree with you Joe!

I think the first one looks better to my eyes, except for the softness in "Liberty" and the small rim ding at 3:00.

crazyhounddog

<< <i>the top coin appears to have a weaker strike and also to be a later die state showing signs of erosion to me. >>



For the sake of education, please point out the weaker details of the upper coin? As I see it with my eyes, the upper coin has a stronger strike, the buffs ridge line is stronger, the separation from Liberty is stronger, and the naught on the Indians braid, and the braid itself looks much stronger. I don't see any erosion at all . So please point out the weakness for me?....Thanks, Joe

ecichlid

First of all, let be clear, I really like the coins you purchase and I appreciate you taking the time to post them. Buffalo brothers we are!

Joe, do you purposely pick coins for comparison that are slabbed and overgraded? It seems to be the case when you do these comparisons. The coin in the slab is not a 65. I think you can find much better in a PCGS 65 slab.

I like your coin. I say it's a true 65.

coolkarma

Lovely coin which I would give a 65. If the luster is as nice in hand as it appears, yes a shot 66.

I think the coin is reasonably well-struck, but there are signs that it is a later die state. The signs are the "squiggly" die flow lines. In early die states, there are no flow lines and the areas of the coin smoothly reflect the design. As the dies are used repeatedly, the flow lines begin to appear. On your coin, they are present near and perpendicular to the rim (e.g., South of the date and long feather), in the midst of the Indian's hair, beneath the eye, on the temple, the back of the neck... The reverse seems to be an earlier die state than the obverse. Neither side is a very late die state, at which time the design begins to become more mushy.

Typically, I don't believe PCGS explicitly takes die state into consideration in assigning a grade. However, it can add to the apparent luster and eye appeal.

I should note that it is only because of your excellent images that we can see the die flow lines. The pictures are excellent.

Enjoy!

BlackDiamond

I'm going to be in the 65 camp on this one. Keep us posted if you get it graded. If the price was right, then I would say you scored. Nice pick up.

keets

first of all, it can be hard to judge two coins with different lighting, one in a holder and the other raw. to me the top coin looks to have been struck from a worn die, particularly the obverse, so the detail looks smoother although not necessarily sharper. there also looks to be quite a bit of unstruck planchet flaw(s) on the top coin above the braid and the center of the Bison. the severe die erosion on the Indian's temple, hair, neck and just under the eye is particularly unappealing to me as well as the erosion in the field. on the reverse you can see the die starting to erode around the rim and under the Bison. the bottom coin has a more uniform look. my hunch is that the die pressure was cranked up to compensate for the worn die(s) and the result is what appears to be strong detail in some areas and an overall polished look.

of course this is JMHO. it is a look that's very familiar on many, many Jefferson Nickels from the late 1940's-1960's. the consequence with Jefferson Nickels is that the die pressure gets cranked up as the dies wear and are polished, resulting in soft overall detail and strongly struck areas that are the deepest(and least used) parts of the die. Jefferson collectors are all to familiar with FS coins that have this look.

breakdown

Joe, I think it would have reasonable shot at 65. I am a bit surprised by the number of comments stating that it is a weak strike. As CoolKarma states, die erosion is different than weak strike. By the way, I like the reverse quite a bit more than obverse. If you get it graded, let us know how it turns out.
Enjoy!

crazyhounddog

Points well taken! But I just don't see what your talking about, I respect all opinions, this forum, and the people on it. I appreciate the time spent, I enjoy hearing all view points and how we arrive at are decisions, it is educational for all. As to the lighting, it's not at all different it's just that one is in plastic and the other is not. When I get this piece graded, I well share the results. Thanks a bunch for enjoyment, it is appreciated.....Joe

Shamika

I think the coin is a 65 at best. No way would I grade it 66.

09sVDB

Poor strike MS64. Slight chance at 65 on a good/bad day depending in how you look at it.

ad4400

I could see it as a 65 based on the apparent luster but agree that the dings hold it back from going any higher. I agree that the 'lack' of detail is more related to die state than actual stike, but I don't think that aspect would kick it down to 64. I've seen plenty of detail lacking 65s, and I'm not even talking about the tough dates in the series. T2s can be nicely struck, and I'm a sucker for strike. Here is my T2 (DGS 62):

gyocomgd

The piece has been dipped, the luster is justntoo flat not to have been, But it will get slqbbed, most likely 64. The strike is terrific.