I would not be sursprised if board member AuroraBorealis owned it or at least knew of it's whereabouts................Stunning coin. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I went to Sunnywood's collection....and saw a few I had sold and also saw who apparently now owns the 81-S that is the subject of this thread....."Ex-Ron Sirna"....
I went to Sunnywood's collection....and saw a few I had sold and also saw who apparently now owns the 81-S that is the subject of this thread....."Ex-Ron Sirna"....
>>
Well, you're welcome Adrian. I thought I had seen the subject 81-S in the Sunnywood collection a while back, but wasn't certain. I sure like the first image better than the one you just posted
Neither one of those images actually does the coin any justice.....oh, and I should have referred to the collection as the Simpson-Sunnywood Collection, not the Sunnywood Collection.
The reason I bought this coin was becuase it was as close as I could get to the color and quilty of the Sunnywood-Simpson coin and still keep a roof over my head. I know my coin is a far far cry from the original posted but it cost me a little over 2% of what the MS68 coin was originally purchased for by Sunnywood
Well there is at least one "hiflyer" who feels THIS toned 1882-S is the Hope Diamond of all toned Morgans, and it's still for sale with a big price reduction many, many, many months later.
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
<< <i>That is a beautiful coin...where did you get it? >>
FUN Show....I know it went through Brandon's hands and eventually made it up to Canada and was part of AuroraBorealis's collection and then he sold it at some point and I got it from ebaytrader last week
<< <i>Well there is at least one "hiflyer" who feels THIS toned 1882-S is the Hope Diamond of all toned Morgans, and it's still for sale with a big price reduction many, many, many months later.
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
>Yep I remember it......I won't comment on the quality of the coin but I rember several members thinking the seller was on drugs >
Bill is not shy................MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Well there is at least one "hiflyer" who feels THIS toned 1882-S is the Hope Diamond of all toned Morgans, and it's still for sale with a big price reduction many, many, many months later.
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
<< <i>"Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!"
Ooooohhhhhh....I really like that.....sage insight..... >>
But for the fact that neither is always true. >>
Remember that all generalizations are bad.
The surviving 1893-S PCGS MS67 is the Cornelius Vermeule-Jack Lee coin. The Norweb coin was also PCGS MS67 but was, in the opinion of most, totally ruined by NCS. The Vermeule coin is not as dramatic as the coin pictured. Most who've seen it grade it DNS (Does Not Suck), about as high an encomium as can be given without damaging the coin when drooling over it. I was lucky enough to hold it raw and naked (no flip) in my hand. Felt pad but no mask over mouth and nose. Thank you Harvey Stack.
I had a short discussion about this piece with HRH in a cab in Baltimore soon after Vermeule. He graded it MFG/OMG. PCGS was able to quantify this as a 67
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Liver of sulfur? On a top-quality ultra gem common date host dollar? That would be like Rembrandt using a Wagner power sprayer to create Night Watch on his expensive canvas
No, one would imagine it taking expertly applied vapor deposition to build up that kind of thin film interference on a such a nice dollar. Much more likely to be a natural accident.
The surviving 1893-S PCGS MS67 is the Cornelius Vermeule-Jack Lee coin. The Norweb coin was also PCGS MS67 but was, in the opinion of most, totally ruined by NCS. The Vermeule coin is not as dramatic as the coin pictured. Most who've seen it grade it DNS (Does Not Suck), about as high an encomium as can be given without damaging the coin when drooling over it. I was lucky enough to hold it raw and naked (no flip) in my hand. Felt pad but no mask over mouth and nose. Thank you Harvey Stack.
I had a short discussion about this piece with HRH in a cab in Baltimore soon after Vermeule. He graded it MFG/OMG. PCGS was able to quantify this as a 67
Agreed. I spent about 10 minutes drooling over that coin at the Vermeulle sale and couldn't find a flaw of note on the entire coin. Figured it was at least a MS67++. So no surprise that it went MS67. The toning imo was quite attractive even if mottled and the luster a tad muted under it. A perfectly stored gem. The only surprise the was that the price it realized was only $410K or so which at the time seemed cheap for an unimprovable key date coin. For all the marked up common date 68's out there, it's hard to fathom how this pristine gem is only a 67. It would seem it got a 3 point deduction from MS70 only for the lack of brilliant mind-blowing luster. Any common 20th century silver coin in this condition would have merited a MS68 or MS69 grade. I've seen MS68 Mercs with more marks. With all the MS67 Bust, Barber and Seated coins running around that have numerous small marks, it's a wonder that a silver dollar with less marks could be graded MS67. Why I wouldn't have given the Vermeulle 93-s an "A" for luster, I also couldn't give anything lower than "B+." It was singularly the cleanest and most mark free MS Morgan silver dollar I have ever held in my hands. And that includes a plethora of TPG graded common date MS68's. This coin would have almost had to have been pulled off the dies with gloves before it was stored. Either that or someone got to cherry pick through a bag of MS 1893-s's at time of striking to find a flawless one.
<<< Agreed. I spent about 10 minutes drooling over that coin at the Vermeulle sale and couldn't find a flaw of note on the entire coin. Figured it was at least a MS67++. So no surprise that it went MS67. The toning imo was quite attractive even if mottled and the luster a tad muted under it. A perfectly stored gem. The only surprise the was that the price it realized was only $410K or so which at the time seemed cheap for an unimprovable key date coin. For all the marked up common date 68's out there, it's hard to fathom how this pristine gem is only a 67. >>>
I heard rumors right after that coin was graded that at least 1 grader at PCGS thought the coin was a no question 68 and PCGS was torn between a 67 and 68. Maybe they were just afraid to give it a 68 in case a better one somehow surfaced down the road? In any case, PCGS has a track record of grading key dates in the Morgan series on an altogether different and more stringent grading scale, where many dates including some CC's are graded very liberally.
Thanks for that input Dragon. I think at the time the sheet price for a MS67 was around $450-$475K. So at $410K or so the coin brought under sheet, for what was likely the finest known. But that was a relatively rare raw coin auction. I think PCGS deferred to what the coin brought at auction. I haven't been to one of those "raw" sales since the Stack's Buffalo Historical Society sale.
<< <i>"Newmismatist" Rick, would you please explain (to those of us that don't understand the reference) ?
Or, should that be inference? Anaconda? Col Jessop? Anyone? >>
IIRC Newmismatist was/is Ron Sirna's board handle here and elsewhere. Don't know if it was a play on Numismatist or to differentiate him from an Oldmismatist.
Both Morgans being discussed here are absolutely amazing. I viewed the OP coin when it was in auction by ANR as part of a smaller high quality collection of mid 90's holdered coins - it's absolutely breathtaking. The Vermeule collection was also of amazing quality and IMO doesn't get its full due. My 1873-cc trade dollar is from the same sale.
ANACONDA
Posts: 4,692 ✭
Comments
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>You mean more than Sunnywood's 93-S? OK then. >>
Sorry.....I should have said most desireable common date Morgan.
You've got my curiosity piqued....can anyone post an image of Sunnywood's 93-S?
<< <i>
<< <i>You mean more than Sunnywood's 93-S? OK then. >>
Sorry.....I should have said most desireable common date Morgan.
You've got my curiosity piqued....can anyone post an image of Sunnywood's 93-S? >>
Ex-Sunnywood collection coins/images - next time I am going to let you do your own search : )-
I went to Sunnywood's collection....and saw a few I had sold and also saw who apparently now owns the 81-S that is the subject of this thread....."Ex-Ron Sirna"....
<< <i>Well, thanks, Mark.
I went to Sunnywood's collection....and saw a few I had sold and also saw who apparently now owns the 81-S that is the subject of this thread....."Ex-Ron Sirna"....
Well, you're welcome Adrian. I thought I had seen the subject 81-S in the Sunnywood collection a while back, but wasn't certain. I sure like the first image better than the one you just posted
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1882-S-Monster-Toned-Morgan-PCGS-MS-66-/360130526653?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item53d973bdbd
<< <i>That is a beautiful coin...where did you get it? >>
FUN Show....I know it went through Brandon's hands and eventually made it up to Canada and was part of AuroraBorealis's collection and then he sold it at some point and I got it from ebaytrader last week
<< <i>Well there is at least one "hiflyer" who feels THIS toned 1882-S is the Hope Diamond of all toned Morgans, and it's still for sale with a big price reduction many, many, many months later.
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1882-S-Monster-Toned-Morgan-PCGS-MS-66-/360130526653?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item53d973bdbd >>
Yep I remember it......I won't comment on the quality of the coin but I rember several members thinking the seller was on drugs
100% Positive BST transactions
Bill is not shy................MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ >>
No.....
Ooooohhhhhh....I really like that.....sage insight.....
<< <i>"Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!"
Ooooohhhhhh....I really like that.....sage insight..... >>
But for the fact that neither is always true.
<< <i>Well there is at least one "hiflyer" who feels THIS toned 1882-S is the Hope Diamond of all toned Morgans, and it's still for sale with a big price reduction many, many, many months later.
Anyone remember the old thread about this coin vs. the 81-S in MS68?
http://cgi.ebay.com/1882-S-Monster-Toned-Morgan-PCGS-MS-66-/360130526653?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item53d973bdbd >>
In their defense the comparison is to the lesser known sunnyBROOK collection.
<< <i>
<< <i>"Great coins are not cheap,and cheap coins are not great!"
Ooooohhhhhh....I really like that.....sage insight..... >>
But for the fact that neither is always true. >>
Remember that all generalizations are bad.
The surviving 1893-S PCGS MS67 is the Cornelius Vermeule-Jack Lee coin. The Norweb coin was also PCGS MS67 but was, in the opinion of most, totally ruined by NCS. The Vermeule coin is not as dramatic as the coin pictured. Most who've seen it grade it DNS (Does Not Suck), about as high an encomium as can be given without damaging the coin when drooling over it. I was lucky enough to hold it raw and naked (no flip) in my hand. Felt pad but no mask over mouth and nose. Thank you Harvey Stack.
I had a short discussion about this piece with HRH in a cab in Baltimore soon after Vermeule. He graded it MFG/OMG. PCGS was able to quantify this as a 67
That's funny.
(How sesquipedalianesq of you.)
<< <i>
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ >>
No it was in an ANACS 68 holder.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ >>
No it was in an ANACS 68 holder. >>
I thought I saw it in a PCGS (not ANACS) MS68 holder when Ron had it.
<< <i>You got points in my book for the use of "encomium". >>
Even though I think you meant "epiphenomenologically"?
So many syllables, so little time...
I know, I know.. I'll get it in befiore you do.... sesquipedalian
<< <i>
Would this be considered to be "good" coin doctoring, or "bad" coin doctoring???
Beautiful specimen!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Still in the Sunnywood-Simpson set of Morgans. >>
When Ron sold it to Doug was it in a 67 holder? MJ >>
No it was in an ANACS 68 holder. >>
I thought I saw it in a PCGS (not ANACS) MS68 holder when Ron had it. >>
You did...I am 99.9% sure that Ron had that coin graded by PCGS before it was sold to Doug.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>I'd still like to see that duplicated with liver of sulfur. >>
Those colors? Not happening
No, one would imagine it taking expertly applied vapor deposition to build up that kind of thin film interference on a such a nice dollar. Much more likely to be a natural accident.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I had a short discussion about this piece with HRH in a cab in Baltimore soon after Vermeule. He graded it MFG/OMG. PCGS was able to quantify this as a 67
Agreed. I spent about 10 minutes drooling over that coin at the Vermeulle sale and couldn't find a flaw of note on the entire coin. Figured it was at least a MS67++. So no surprise that it went MS67. The toning imo was quite attractive even if mottled and the luster a tad muted under it. A perfectly stored gem. The only surprise the was that the price it realized was only $410K or so which at the time seemed cheap for an unimprovable key date coin. For all the marked up common date 68's out there, it's hard to fathom how this pristine gem is only a 67.
It would seem it got a 3 point deduction from MS70 only for the lack of brilliant mind-blowing luster. Any common 20th century silver coin in this condition would have merited a MS68 or MS69 grade. I've seen MS68 Mercs with more marks. With all the MS67 Bust, Barber and Seated coins running around that have numerous small marks, it's a wonder that a silver dollar with less marks could be graded MS67. Why I wouldn't have given the Vermeulle 93-s an "A" for luster, I also couldn't give anything lower than "B+." It was singularly the cleanest and most mark free MS Morgan silver dollar I have ever held in my hands. And that includes a plethora of TPG graded common date MS68's. This coin would have almost had to have been pulled off the dies with gloves before it was stored. Either that or someone got to cherry pick through a bag of MS 1893-s's at time of striking to find a flawless one.
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>I'd still like to see that duplicated with liver of sulfur. >>
Those colors? Not happening
That's not what our tarnish mogul says!!
Or, should that be inference? Anaconda? Col Jessop? Anyone?
I heard rumors right after that coin was graded that at least 1 grader at PCGS thought the coin was a no question 68 and PCGS was torn between a 67 and 68. Maybe they were just afraid to give it a 68 in case a better one somehow surfaced down the road? In any case, PCGS has a track record of grading key dates in the Morgan series on an altogether different and more stringent grading scale, where many dates including some CC's are graded very liberally.
roadrunner
<< <i>"Newmismatist" Rick, would you please explain (to those of us that don't understand the reference) ?
Or, should that be inference? Anaconda? Col Jessop? Anyone? >>
IIRC Newmismatist was/is Ron Sirna's board handle here and elsewhere. Don't know if it was a play on Numismatist or to differentiate him from an Oldmismatist.