Shipping Gouge - Dumb & Dumberer
Obiwancanoli
Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭
I recently completed a buy on Ebay for 2 Mint Proof Quarter capsules posting a delivery charge of $4.95 for the first, and a "shipping discount" for additional items... Initially, this seemed on the high side, but the item was inexpensive, and I let it pass...
After completing the sale and receiving the invoice, the seller charged me $9.90, discounted $1.40, to a final shipping cost of $8.40. This, I felt was way out of line, but I let this pass, too...
Then the package arrives... with $2.58 postage on the box.
I felt the only reasonable thing to do was leave positive feedback, and ding him on the shipping costs, leaving a comment to that effect.
Seller must have ignored the supposition that I could read.
Hrumph!
After completing the sale and receiving the invoice, the seller charged me $9.90, discounted $1.40, to a final shipping cost of $8.40. This, I felt was way out of line, but I let this pass, too...
Then the package arrives... with $2.58 postage on the box.
I felt the only reasonable thing to do was leave positive feedback, and ding him on the shipping costs, leaving a comment to that effect.
Seller must have ignored the supposition that I could read.
Hrumph!
UBERCOINER
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
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Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
So seller charges you for shipping on your 2 items and applies a discount as he states he will. Again you dislike it but pay anyway.
Actual shipping cost for 2 items is less than stated cost for 1 item, now you feel slighted. Should seller have charged you $2.58 for shipping even though you KNEW how much it was going to be and agreed to pay it?
Two things:
1. Packages don't pack themselves.
2. You should have asked to negotiate shipping costs.
If seller said no, you could find what you needed elsewhere.
If I were the seller, I'd be peeved at a negative comment in a postive feedback.
Important Takeaway: Whether or not the buyer agrees or disagrees or knows in advance what the shipping is going to be should in no way affect how many stars they leave in the shipping rating feedback. If they feel the shipping was exhorbatant, then they should ding the shipping. To negotiate the shipping based on how many stars you are going to give is feedback extortion (buyer extorting the seller).
if I saw that the actual postage was $2.58 and was charged $8.40, he'd get at most 2 stars. maybe 1.
What you can charge
Actual shipping cost: This is the amount for shipping the item. It should be what you paid the carrier.
Handling cost: This can include the cost of packaging materials and insurance cost, if any.
Delivery Confirmation and extra services: If these options are offered to the buyer, you can only charge what they actually cost. Examples of services include:
Certificate of Mailing
Certified Mail
Collect on Delivery
Delivery Confirmation
Registered Mail
Restricted Delivery
Return Receipt
Signature Confirmation
Special Handling
Tax and government imposed fees: Only applicable federal, state, country, city, Value Added Tax (VAT), or equivalent taxes may be charged.
Categories with maximum shipping costs
eBay sets maximum shipping costs in some categories. You can only charge more than the maximum shipping cost if you use calculated shipping and enter an item's actual size and weight with the packing materials.
When using calculated shipping, make sure the calculated cost isn't higher than the actual shipping cost. If so, it's considered excessive shipping, which isn't allowed on eBay.
Free shipping
You can offer free shipping to select or all destinations.
For a destination with free shipping, no other fees related to shipping, handling, or packaging can be charged.
You're not allowed to change the shipping method to a slower option.
What you're not allowed to charge
Insurance: You can't charge a separate fee for insurance, although you still need to make sure your item arrives as described.
Tip: You should incorporate any insurance fees into an item's price or handling cost.
Tariffs, duties, and customs fees: For cross-border transactions, you're not allowed to collect tariffs, duties, or customs fees. (Buyers may be responsible for paying these fees as required by country laws.)
Tip: Remember not to inappropriately classify an item as a gift as a way to avoid certain duties, tariffs, or customs fees. U.S. law prohibits submitting false or misleading customs information.
Related fees: Things like gas, mileage, time spent at a carrier, employee wages, or eBay and PayPal fees should not be added.
Bottom line: Shipping fee buyer pays is part of the total cost of the coin. If you don't agree with the total cost of the coin, you shouldn't be buying it.
Disclaimer: All of my ebay sales include free shipping and insurance.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
would certainly be more expensive to ship. 2 x 5oz = 10 oz. Perhaps a flat rate
box would have been in order.
bob
<< <i>If seller clearly states shipping cost then buyer is agreeing to shipping cost (regardless of price) and should not hold it against seller as long as seller uses the shipping method stated. >>
Seems reasonable. But then again, this is eBay- the place where sellers can do *exactly* as they say they will, and buyers will still complain.
<< <i>"Whether or not the buyer agrees or disagrees or knows in advance what the shipping is going to be should in no way affect how many stars they leave in the shipping rating feedback" are you serious ? please explain how this statement is anything but assinine. >>
I'm not sure if you have ever purchased anything on ebay, but the star rating for shipping is, "How reasonable were the shipping and handling charges?". And you get 5 stars to leave a rating.
The star ratings are
1 - very unreasonable
2 - unreasonable
3 - neither unreasonable nor reasonable
4 - reasonable
5 - very reasonable
So when do you propose to leave what star ratings?
Are you implying that the buyer should always leave 5 stars since the buyer agreed to buy the item at the stated terms? If so, then what do you think Ebay put the additional 4 ratings for?
1 - very unreasonable same as #2 but to greater degree
2 - unreasonable same as #3 but to greater degree
3 - neither unreasonable nor reasonable Seller charges "somewhat" more than postage and packaging
4 - reasonable Seller charges actual postage plus reasonable packaging costs
5 - very reasonable Seller charges actual postage only or close to it (maybe rounds to nearest dollar) and absorbs packaging as the price of doing business
<< <i>Are you implying that the buyer should always leave 5 stars since the buyer agreed to buy the item at the stated terms? >>
If the seller does what he says he will, why wouldn't you leave five stars? If his stated terms are not satisfactory, you certainly have the option to not bid. Right?
<< <i>If so, then what do you think Ebay put the additional 4 ratings for? >>
For when the seller doesn't do what he says he will.
First, it seems I didn't make my point clear enough... I DID search for free shipping, and do so consistently. When I can't obtain it, then I attempt to choose those auctions which offer the best deals. In this particular case, there weren't many of the item, excepting some BIN's I felt were asking more than I was willing to pay. Typically, these included free shipping, yet the total cost - as some have advised - was something I considered in avoiding these, and opting for the auction in question.
Secondly, my point was the disparity between the invoice shipping cost, and the actual postage on the package - nearly 360% more. I recognize there is an element of cost associated with the packaging material, etc., but in this particular case, the seller used a standard small USPS box (these are free at the post office) and wrapped it in the remnants of an artfully cut paper shopping bag, taped together well, upon which was affixed the $2.35 postage stamp (this is the correct amount - $2.58 stated in the OP was incorrect).
Third, I admit I did not contact the seller before bidding, but at the time, I felt he would respond by advising me not to bid his auction - a reasonable response. I could have waited for another auction, etc., or followed much of the advice left in previous posts, however, I chose to proceed, and accept the chastisement of those who feel I acted hastily.
I was simply attempting to note what seemed to be significant disparity between the costs a seller is permited to base shipping charges on, and the clearly displayed cost of postage, with regard to the disparity between that, and the cost passed on to me. I still believe it was an excessive amount. While many sellers state that they charge only actual shipping costs, that was not present in this auction.
Finally, as regards the feedback I left, I didn't hammer the guy, I left positive feedback, and noted in my comments that I felt shipping was high. All things considered, it WAS. The "discount" amount was NOT stated in the auction, only that a discount would apply, and it would be shipped "Economy Shipping".
I appreciate the advice many have offered here - that's why I posted this - and will be more diligent in confirming shipping costs in those auctions in which a charge will apply.
Edited to add:
I do not attempt to extort a seller by negotiating costs after the fact.
If shipping cost is stated in the auction (it was), I accept that cost if I choose to bid - attempting to negotiate in this instance seems petty. I also accepted that a "shipping discount will apply", but I anticipated it would be a meaningful discount.
As for Top Rated sellers "blocking bidders to protect their ratings", while I am certain this is overwhelmingly appropriate in most cases, it begs the question of seller loyalty to their customer base, where a buyer has a valid observation. It doesn't bode well for a seller to block buyers who leave positive feedback with a comment they might subsequently benefit from, even if if does leave a somewhat bitter taste. That's temporary, and perhaps the seller will become a better "cook" as a consequence. Perhaps the seller might even respond with some degree of appreciation for the opportunity to address a situation (I'm loathe to call this a "problem"), and thus in these instances, will ultimately become a seller people want to keep doing business with - because when such circumstances DO arise, they're quick to resolve them.
I would consider it inappropriate to contact a seller, whose auction clearly stated a shipping cost, to request "free shipping" after the fact.
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
ebaybuyer - I will continue to buy as I do on Ebay. Although I take into account shipping as part of the total price that I pay for an item, I will still, however, consider what I was charged in shipping in my star rating for shipping for that seller. Your beliefs about shipping are wrong. If you take your emotions out of the equation and look at it logically, perhaps it will start to make sense to you. Since you did not address the star ratings I assume you wish to ignore that since it does not match your incorrect belief of how to rate the shipping part of the buying experience on Ebay. "Hitting the guy in the back is cowardly" is a non sequitur if you take a look at and understand the star ratings.
<< <i>If so, then what do you think Ebay put the additional 4 ratings for? >>
To help reduce the number of seller discounts they provide to sellers with good star ratings.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>4 - reasonable Seller charges actual postage plus reasonable packaging costs
5 - very reasonable Seller charges actual postage only or close to it (maybe rounds to nearest dollar) and absorbs packaging as the price of doing business >>
It's shipping and HANDLING. How is it not very reasonable to expect a seller to charge for the service they offer you, especially if they state it up front?
Better question: eBay doesn't let sellers charge separate insurance, so they have to guess as to the closing cost. If you end up getting a better deal than expected, and thus there is more insurance in the shipping cost than would normally be there, does the seller get dinged for guessing wrong, in addition to getting less than expected for the item? What if the insurance is through a private insurance company and not reflected on the postage label, so you know neither exactly what was charged nor what the seller paid?
<< <i>
<< <i>4 - reasonable Seller charges actual postage plus reasonable packaging costs
5 - very reasonable Seller charges actual postage only or close to it (maybe rounds to nearest dollar) and absorbs packaging as the price of doing business >>
It's shipping and HANDLING. How is it not very reasonable to expect a seller to charge for the service they offer you, especially if they state it up front?
Better question: eBay doesn't let sellers charge separate insurance, so they have to guess as to the closing cost. If you end up getting a better deal than expected, and thus there is more insurance in the shipping cost than would normally be there, does the seller get dinged for guessing wrong, in addition to getting less than expected for the item? What if the insurance is through a private insurance company and not reflected on the postage label, so you know neither exactly what was charged nor what the seller paid? >>
What would you suggest then for 5 stars "very reasonable"? The shipper charged less than actual costs? Perhaps...
Also I believe that ebay does not allow private insurance. And there isn't much of a guess as to postal insurance. The seller should have a good idea at what to insure something for in almost all cases.
In reality, 9.9 times out of 10 I give 5 stars for everything unless there was really a problem.
<< <i>Also I believe that ebay does not allow private insurance. >>
What is this belief based upon?
<< <i>slipgate, you should spend some time in a sellers shoes, then you will acknowledge that it is cowardly to accept the terms by bidding, then decide that you didnt like the terms to begin with. the terms are spelled out, take them or leave them. but you cant have it both ways >>
Again, your argument is a non sequitur. The star ratings other than 5 stars do not point to not liking the terms of the sale.
derrb: Your "To help reduce the number of seller discounts they provide to sellers with good star ratings. " comment is probably the best argument for leaving a 5 star rating regardless of circumstances. And this is primarily why I usually leave 5 stars as the star rating on every category. What the ratings say do not appropriately match up with their importance to the seller as far as what incentives they get from Ebay based on those ratings. Essentially a seller would have to lose money if everyone left correct ratings.
<< <i>
<< <i>Also I believe that ebay does not allow private insurance. >>
What is this belief based upon? >>
I thought I heard/read somewhere that you can't self-insure or charge for insurance that is not actually from a real insurer. Maybe I'm wrong on that.
<< <i>I thought I heard/read somewhere that you can't self-insure or charge for insurance that is not actually from a real insurer. >>
So you're rating sellers on things you "thought you heard/read somewhere" that sellers can't do? Nice.
<< <i>the shipping cost is a large part of the terms of sale is it not ????? "The seller should have a good idea at what to insure something for in almost all cases" ???? a seller may have no clue what the item will sell for ! so how would he know what to insure it for ??? please provide your ebay id so i can block you. >>
lol - do you know anything? Just because you insure something for $5k doesn't mean you are going to get $5k if you have to file a claim. You do have to prove value. You could argue that the value is what it sold for on Ebay, but I suspect if that is too far out of line with the items "real" value, that your claim will be reduced.
Feel free to block me - same username as here!
<< <i>
<< <i>I thought I heard/read somewhere that you can't self-insure or charge for insurance that is not actually from a real insurer. >>
So you're rating sellers on things you "thought you heard/read somewhere" that sellers can't do? Nice. >>
lol - I never said I included anything like this in my ratings anaylsis.
ebaybuyer: It is federal law that you can't charge for insurance if you do not actually provide it. Any other ways you can show your ignorance?
<< <i>the star rating is essentially for cowards that like to accept the terms, then hit the guy in the back after the sale. ebay understands this, that is why they offer a discount to five star sellers. looks good on paper but in the real world is just about impossible. >>
No, DSR is so that buyers can praise a seller for certian aspects of the deal while at the same time make mention of substandard service, instead of arbitrarily leaving a big red NEG over a minor issue in an otherwise fast & smooth deal.
Buyers didn't ask for it, sellers did because they were tired of getting NEGs over petty issues. Frustration should be directed at eBay policy, not at your buyers.
<< <i>your ignorance is vastly overdshadowing mine. im waiting for a self insuror to chime in and respond to your argument about self-insurance. >>
ROFL! You can self-insure all day long no problem. but in order to CHARGE for it, you MUST be a REAL, legally registered insurance company. My god, a simple Google search would have told you that. I highly suggest you do a Google search before acting like you know what you are talking about, it would make your life a lot easier. Did you block me yet?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Also I believe that ebay does not allow private insurance. >>
What is this belief based upon? >>
I thought I heard/read somewhere that you can't self-insure or charge for insurance that is not actually from a real insurer. Maybe I'm wrong on that. >>
You are actually incorrect, I believe. The issue was that people were CHARGING postal rates for "self-insurance" and that was stopped a few years back. You can self-insure...just can't charge for it is what I believe (as a separate line item). You can still factor it into the shipping charge, if you have one.
I would have to agree, however, if this is for a couple of capsules, then $8.40 is excessive. Folks in this thread have generalized the issue but to go back to the issue at hand, I would agree with the OP that the charge was excessive and, if the seller is going to state "discount for multiple items", then a "whole" $1.40 at that level, is cheesy and cheap.
Could the OP have talked to the seller ahead of time? Maybe, sure. However, it sounds like the $4.95 wasn't a problem for him, nor was a reasonable (who defines "reasonable" here?) charge for the 2nd one.
Now, does anyone who is defending the seller believe that $8.40 is reasonable?
Also, why did anyone not note what was written with the packaging the seller did?
<< <i>the seller used a standard small USPS box (these are free at the post office) and wrapped it in the remnants of an artfully cut paper shopping bag, taped together well, upon which was affixed the $2.35 postage stamp >>
So, they charge for the USPS box/shipping but then they hide it so they don't have to pay the USPS price but pay much less. Dishonest?
I know other folks do it, and some reuse the boxes and consider it environmentally better even though the USPS doesn't get the funds for it (just the normal shipping), but, the seller charged for it and then shipped dfferently.
If you can't see that, or you defend that, then I am sorry for you.
All in all, I think folks are too harsh on the OP and not looking at the specifics of this case, as reported by the OP.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Lou
ANA Life-Member
I have seen a seller be hit with higher costs for shipping than he collected. Nothing was ever said.