<< <i>I would say the lack of a sound education in Business to include accounting and inventory management and marketing. Would be one way to go in the hole in a big way. >>
Would that include learning how to grade since it has been stated that many dealers can't grade?
<< <i>I would say the lack of a sound education in Business to include accounting and inventory management and marketing. Would be one way to go in the hole in a big way. >>
Would that include learning how to grade since it has been stated that many dealers can't grade? >>
Being a good grader is a technical skill learned by many emplyees of good business men and women.
Your responses have been very insightful. I wasn't looking for the gambling/drugs type responses, but more along the lines what some responses referred to which were pure numismatic plays.
<< <i>Poor cashflow management and poor decision making are the worst culprits [along with the big daddy of them all - changing market values]. Many times, deals are purchased and values assigned. Profits are made on the most desirable coins and then spent thinking the balance of the deal will generate even more profits. What usually happens is the balance of the deal languishes in inventory taking up funds and generating interest costs. Then, when funds are NEEDED for other expenses, the balance is blown out at a loss that negates all the profits earned on the desirable portion. This can force further sales at losses and create a snowball effect similar to a margin call. >>
And this is what stopped me pretty much out of the gate-it forever changed me to a collector
Now I leave all the rest to those who know what they are doing, I should be tarred and featherd for thinking I could do the same as the big boys.
I realize you are not looking for drugs, gambling and sex; but there is no reason not to list them as they have done in more folks than we will ever know and most likely many of these folks would not have been "suspects" for such a demise.
40 Rainbows get off the bus dressed come as you are. The Sergeant has everyone's files and announces the names for assignment.
IQ 120+ Officers Candidate School. They leave. IQ 105+ Military Intelligence, clerk-typists. They leave. IQ 90+ Infantry. They leave. IQ 75+ Cooks, janitors. They leave.
At this point there are only two recruits left.
One looks over at the other and asks "So, do you have a copy of this week's GreySheet?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
<< <i>I realize you are not looking for drugs, gambling and sex; but there is no reason not to list them as they have done in more folks than we will ever know and most likely many of these folks would not have been "suspects" for such a demise. >>
The difference is, these are not honest losses. They are not losses at all but embezzlement--the taking of company money to pay for personal items, a criminal activity. --Jerry
Probably. Is there possibly a you-tube of it? Key line I remember is something like "rattlin/ramblin round my brain". I always love going back to source on the oldies but goodies. Perhaps this discussion should be via PM. Checking Google there seem to be quite a few references to quite a few songs that might apply. Not around the rest of this week. Later....
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
<< <i>I think that some of the largest Denver-area dealers in the 1980s went down......Alcohol, drugs, and gambling ......the final act was a staged "robbery" as the basis for a false insurance claim. As that plot was being discovered by authorities, the dealer fled to Costa Rica (still there, I think).... >>
That wasn't me. I went to Costa Rica first THEN moved to Colorado. Just wanted to clear that up. >>
And he said "1980's" so I think you're clear by at least 20-30 years!
In the current economic environment there are many people who are trying to keep up the appearance of their previous, but now long gone, wealth.
I can think of one individual I know whose business (not coins) collapsed about a year and a half ago. He still has the Cadillac (lease) and country club membership but I suspect his current "job" produces virtually no income and perhaps even a loss.
<< <i>I live in Vegas, so I'll throw out gambling. Online gambling is not good: there is nobody to tell you to leave, slow down, get some rest, etc. Too many casinos in too many towns now and too easy to get involved. I'll bet 90% of formites live within 50 miles of a casino today. Back in the day you went to Reno or Vegas or Atlantic City. Had a budget, limited time and usually a wife or spouse with you to keep you in check. No longer the case and it's a real shame. Gambling is an addiction the same as smoking or drugs or drinking to excess. Some of you have decided to quit a habit as a new year's resolution. Good luck! I hope you can do just that!
bob >>
I think he meant large losses form dealiing in coins. Gambling is unrelated.
<< <i>Many of the earlier respondents provided good answers.
As a dealer, I would add the general statement: Being a coin dealer is more difficult than it looks to most collectors. Particularly when the dealer is just starting his/her business and has not yet found enough customers. You have to figure out what things you do make money, and do more of them, and do less of the things that lose money.
And the specific I would add: Getting involved in areas you know little or nothing about. If you know U. S. coins and not world coins, you have a lot of exposure if you get involved with world coins. You have no expertise there, so how could you make money there?
I admit, all of what I said sounds rather obvious when you think about it. But consultants have made millions of dollars giving advice like this. >>
I would take issue with your comment about world coins and 'exposure'. You do have expertise. What you have learned as a US dealer is bulk of your expertise. (ie you know how to grade, etc.)
There are all sorts of ways to get involved into world coins.
Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,
Sure you will make some mistakes, but if you have an attitude that your willing to lose a little money maybe but learn alot in the meantime, with your background and experience you would be profitable in no time.
While I am not dealer I speak with with experince conserning this attitude.
There are far more opportunities to buy great coins raw than US coins.
You have the world coming to you with new collectors in different countries.
I do not understand what you mean by exposure?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The simple answer is selling for less than you are buying for. If you buy a coin for $1000, a sale of that coin for $1050 may not be a profit. Every sale is a piece of the overall profit margin and building lease, utilities, living expenses, and a myriad of other things must be built in to the sale of each coin.
Need a Barber Half with ANACS photo certificate. If you have one for sale please PM me. Current Ebay auctions
<< <i>And the specific I would add: Getting involved in areas you know little or nothing about. If you know U. S. coins and not world coins, you have a lot of exposure if you get involved with world coins. You have no expertise there, so how could you make money there?
I admit, all of what I said sounds rather obvious when you think about it. But consultants have made millions of dollars giving advice like this. >>
<< <i>
I would take issue with your comment about world coins and 'exposure'. You do have expertise. What you have learned as a US dealer is bulk of your expertise. (ie you know how to grade, etc.)
There are all sorts of ways to get involved into world coins.
Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,
Sure you will make some mistakes, but if you have an attitude that your willing to lose a little money maybe but learn alot in the meantime, with your background and experience you would be profitable in no time.
While I am not dealer I speak with with experince conserning this attitude.
There are far more opportunities to buy great coins raw than US coins.
You have the world coming to you with new collectors in different countries.
I do not understand what you mean by exposure? >>
What I mean is that if a dealer has not done the things you mention, "Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,", and just tries to "wing it" (i.e., getting into the area without the knowledge base),, that is where the dealer can get into a losing situation real fast.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
This is a good topic to discuss. I have many thoughts about this subject but previous posts have mostly covered them.
As for the remarks about gambling, it is a harmful addiction that is difficult to shake and very damaging to the finances for those who are affected but I don't believe gambling addiction is widespread amongst coin dealers.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>This is a good topic to discuss. I have many thoughts about this subject but previous posts have mostly covered them.
As for the remarks about gambling, it is a harmful addiction that is difficult to shake and very damaging to the finances for those who are affected but I don't believe gambling addiction is widespread amongst coin dealers. >>
Gambling kills no matter who's profiting from it. Now days it seems there isn't the kind of stigma attached to it that there was in the past since it's so clean and legal.
Comments
<< <i>I would say the lack of a sound education in Business to include accounting and inventory management and marketing. Would be one way to go in the hole in a big way. >>
Would that include learning how to grade since it has been stated that many dealers can't grade?
<< <i>
<< <i>I would say the lack of a sound education in Business to include accounting and inventory management and marketing. Would be one way to go in the hole in a big way. >>
Would that include learning how to grade since it has been stated that many dealers can't grade? >>
Being a good grader is a technical skill learned by many emplyees of good business men and women.
<< <i>Poor cashflow management and poor decision making are the worst culprits [along with the big daddy of them all - changing market values]. Many times, deals are purchased and values assigned. Profits are made on the most desirable coins and then spent thinking the balance of the deal will generate even more profits. What usually happens is the balance of the deal languishes in inventory taking up funds and generating interest costs. Then, when funds are NEEDED for other expenses, the balance is blown out at a loss that negates all the profits earned on the desirable portion. This can force further sales at losses and create a snowball effect similar to a margin call. >>
And this is what stopped me pretty much out of the gate-it forever changed me to a collector
Now I leave all the rest to those who know what they are doing, I should be tarred and featherd for thinking I could do the same as the big boys.
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>Drugs and gambling have done in more dealers than the Hunt Brothers ever did.
TD >>
Didn't Dave von Ronk(?) and Eric Clapton play different songs with this same title?
40 Rainbows get off the bus dressed come as you are. The Sergeant has everyone's files and announces the names for assignment.
IQ 120+ Officers Candidate School. They leave.
IQ 105+ Military Intelligence, clerk-typists. They leave.
IQ 90+ Infantry. They leave.
IQ 75+ Cooks, janitors. They leave.
At this point there are only two recruits left.
One looks over at the other and asks "So, do you have a copy of this week's GreySheet?
<< <i>I realize you are not looking for drugs, gambling and sex; but there is no reason not to list them as they have done in more folks than we will ever know and most likely many of these folks would not have been "suspects" for such a demise. >>
The difference is, these are not honest losses. They are not losses at all but embezzlement--the taking of company money to pay for personal items, a criminal activity. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>Drugs and gambling have done in more dealers than the Hunt Brothers ever did.
TD >>
Didn't Dave von Ronk(?) and Eric Clapton play different songs with this same title? >>
Van Ronk's is better. Isn't it a Rev Gary Davis tune, or am I thinking of a different one?
Ed. S.
(EJS)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Drugs and gambling have done in more dealers than the Hunt Brothers ever did.
TD >>
Didn't Dave von Ronk(?) and Eric Clapton play different songs with this same title? >>
Van Ronk's is better. Isn't it a Rev Gary Davis tune, or am I thinking of a different one? >>
I like the various Jackson Browne versions of Van Ronk's. --Jerry
<< <i>
<< <i>I think that some of the largest Denver-area dealers in the 1980s went down......Alcohol, drugs, and gambling ......the final act was a staged "robbery" as the basis for a false insurance claim. As that plot was being discovered by authorities, the dealer fled to Costa Rica (still there, I think).... >>
That wasn't me. I went to Costa Rica first THEN moved to Colorado. Just wanted to clear that up. >>
And he said "1980's" so I think you're clear by at least 20-30 years!
<< <i> His wife had no idea they were insolvent. >>
Amazingly frequent scenario, both in and out of the coin biz.
I had a friend whos dad was a CTA bus driver (pretty good money). One day her mom opens the door and it's the bank with foreclosure papers.
She was clueless that Dad had been taking the mortgage $ and buying cocaine for many months.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
I can think of one individual I know whose business (not coins) collapsed about a year and a half ago. He still has the Cadillac (lease) and country club membership but I suspect his current "job" produces virtually no income and perhaps even a loss.
<< <i>I live in Vegas, so I'll throw out gambling. Online gambling is not good: there
is nobody to tell you to leave, slow down, get some rest, etc. Too many casinos
in too many towns now and too easy to get involved. I'll bet 90% of formites live
within 50 miles of a casino today.
Back in the day you went to Reno or Vegas or Atlantic City. Had a budget, limited
time and usually a wife or spouse with you to keep you in check. No longer the case
and it's a real shame.
Gambling is an addiction the same as smoking or drugs or drinking to excess. Some
of you have decided to quit a habit as a new year's resolution. Good luck! I hope
you can do just that!
bob >>
I think he meant large losses form dealiing in coins. Gambling is unrelated.
even being just a coin broker has risk involved
<< <i>Many of the earlier respondents provided good answers.
As a dealer, I would add the general statement: Being a coin dealer is more difficult than it looks to most collectors. Particularly when the dealer is just starting his/her business and has not yet found enough customers. You have to figure out what things you do make money, and do more of them, and do less of the things that lose money.
And the specific I would add: Getting involved in areas you know little or nothing about. If you know U. S. coins and not world coins, you have a lot of exposure if you get involved with world coins. You have no expertise there, so how could you make money there?
I admit, all of what I said sounds rather obvious when you think about it. But consultants have made millions of dollars giving advice like this.
I would take issue with your comment about world coins and 'exposure'. You do have expertise. What you have learned as a US dealer is bulk of your expertise. (ie you know how to grade, etc.)
There are all sorts of ways to get involved into world coins.
Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,
Sure you will make some mistakes, but if you have an attitude that your willing to lose a little money maybe but learn alot in the meantime, with your background and experience you would be profitable in no time.
While I am not dealer I speak with with experince conserning this attitude.
There are far more opportunities to buy great coins raw than US coins.
You have the world coming to you with new collectors in different countries.
I do not understand what you mean by exposure?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>And the specific I would add: Getting involved in areas you know little or nothing about. If you know U. S. coins and not world coins, you have a lot of exposure if you get involved with world coins. You have no expertise there, so how could you make money there?
I admit, all of what I said sounds rather obvious when you think about it. But consultants have made millions of dollars giving advice like this.
<< <i>
I would take issue with your comment about world coins and 'exposure'. You do have expertise. What you have learned as a US dealer is bulk of your expertise. (ie you know how to grade, etc.)
There are all sorts of ways to get involved into world coins.
Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,
Sure you will make some mistakes, but if you have an attitude that your willing to lose a little money maybe but learn alot in the meantime, with your background and experience you would be profitable in no time.
While I am not dealer I speak with with experince conserning this attitude.
There are far more opportunities to buy great coins raw than US coins.
You have the world coming to you with new collectors in different countries.
I do not understand what you mean by exposure? >>
What I mean is that if a dealer has not done the things you mention, "Research, study of past auctions, traveling to some international coins shows, picking the brains of your fellow world dealers for advice and info, looking at wolrd coins, focusing on countries, denominations, learning the hoard coins,", and just tries to "wing it" (i.e., getting into the area without the knowledge base),, that is where the dealer can get into a losing situation real fast.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
As for the remarks about gambling, it is a harmful addiction that is difficult to shake and very damaging to the finances for those who are affected but I don't believe gambling addiction is widespread amongst coin dealers.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>This is a good topic to discuss. I have many thoughts about this subject but previous posts have mostly covered them.
As for the remarks about gambling, it is a harmful addiction that is difficult to shake and very damaging to the finances for those who are affected but I don't believe gambling addiction is widespread amongst coin dealers. >>
Gambling kills no matter who's profiting from it. Now days it seems
there isn't the kind of stigma attached to it that there was in the
past since it's so clean and legal.
Serling appreciated the depravity;
Link
This is an 8 minute trailer for "The Fever". The "hero" ends up dead
as a victim of his addiction and "delusions".
It's easy to lose money in any business and if you can get loans then
you can just keep losing more and more.