get a life
bobbyw8469
Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
Hello all. I have a situation in that I sold a card on the PSA BST board and the buyer is not happy with a flaw on the card. The card was professionally graded by PSA and received a grade of "8". As sellers, do you accept returns when a buyers does not agree with PSA's assessment, or do you tell them to go pound sand?
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there's another buyer out there.
As mentioned above, there is always another buyer...cheap pain to take it back IMO.
If you are worried about them potentially swapping cards out or something of that nature, then just have them return it first. The best guideline to live by as a seller is to treat buyers like you would expect to be treated as a buyer.
Mike
<< <i>If you even need to ask this question vs immediately making someone happy speaks volumes about your character. >>
I am not a PSA grader. Are you?!?!??! The minute you start taking returns back you are opening up a whole new can of worms? This card won't crack out and become a 10??? RETURN!! This PSA 4 won't crack out and become a '6'???? RETURN!!!! I showed a scan of the card!! Shoot, there is even a card company (All Star Cards) that has so much faith in PSA cards, that they have a BUY list and pay certain prices for certain PSA cards and grades without having even ever seen the card!!!! For you to say something that assasine to me shows your ignorance and prejudice on your part! I just wanted opinions on how sellers handled situations, not judgement passed. Carry on!
Sorry for the rant - I just get tired of all those attacks by these message board trolls who have nothing better to do. (Yes, I am looking at you Arachniator)!
<< <i>Hello all. I have a situation in that I sold a card on the PSA BST board and the buyer is not happy with a flaw on the card. The card was professionally graded by PSA and received a grade of "8". As sellers, do you accept returns when a buyers does not agree with PSA's assessment, or do you tell them to go pound sand? >>
Two factors for me: did the sale have any preconditions about returns and did you provide a scan.
If you provided good scans and the buyer is unhappy, then its on him. However, good customer service might trump everything here, especially if it is a board member or EBay buyer with a good rep. In this particular case, I'd accept the return simply because "most" members are unlikely to risk the s**storm associated with pulling a scam.
Working on the following: 1970 Baseball PSA, 1970-1976 Raw, World Series Subsets PSA, 1969 Expansion Teams PSA, Fleer World Series Sets, Texas Rangers Topps Run 1972-1989
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Successful deals to date: thedudeabides,gameusedhoop,golfcollector,tigerdean,treetop,bkritz, CapeMOGuy,WeekendHacker,jeff8877,backbidder,Salinas,milbroco,bbuckner22,VitoCo1972,ddfamf,gemint,K,fatty macs,waltersobchak,dboneesq
What is the card?
What is the concern of the buyer?
Etc.
And if this is a board member I'd certainly be inclined to allow the return.
"Molon Labe"
<< <i>And if this is a board member I'd certainly be inclined to allow the return. >>
Agreed. While I understand why some sellers don't allow PSA returns, for a fellow board member, I would.
edit to add the "not"
That being said, most of my buyers are loyal repeat customers, so I would not hesitate to take a card back if they were unhappy, and just relist it. Odds are the next guy will keep it.
<< <i>Hello all. I have a situation in that I sold a card on the PSA BST board and the buyer is not happy with a flaw on the card. The card was professionally graded by PSA and received a grade of "8". As sellers, do you accept returns when a buyers does not agree with PSA's assessment, or do you tell them to go pound sand? >>
Was the flaw on the card visible on the scan, or did you make any note of it at all?
Edited to add - telling them to pound sand probably is not the best way of rejecting the request :0
With that said I'd take it back. I would NOT start a thread about it where the person who
bought it from me could happen upon the thread and see where I am contemplating telling
him to pound sand. That's for sure. As for Ebay I'm not so sure that sellers can even state
no returns on graded cards because PP will side with the buyer if he/she files a SNAD.
Also, the excuse that you used regarding the card would not bump so it gets returned
is a valid one, but is it valid in this specific case? Has this person done this before to you?
Did he mention this or at the least did you get that impression?
Sometimes it's best not to bring every single ebay/B/S/T problem to a message board.
Sometimes it's best to just handle it privately with the person that you transacted with.
Happy New Year,
Steve
If the listing states "no returns" - and the scans are adequate - the
buyer should abide by the terms he agreed to.
Because of PayPal/EBAY pro-criminal policies, even honest buyers now
often view ALL sale listings as an "approval service."
.......
Reasonable "Restocking Fees" on returns are allowed, but will automatically
be disallowed if the "buyer" falsely claims the item was "SNAD."
.............
As of November 1, 2010, ALL PayPal payments for merchandise - made
on ANY venue - are subject to PP "Purchase Protection."
SNAD and INR claims are BOTH covered under the plan.
BST and ALL other off-EBAY websites are included in the scheme.
Sending a "request for money" avoids the scheme. "Personal Payments"
are NOT covered; neither are "gifts."
.....................
Mickey71
I note in my eBay auctions that I do not accept returns on TPG cards, however, if I had a buyer that was unhappy, I would accept the return - no questions asked. The disclaimer is there to discourage anyone who plans to "buy on approval."
I understand the concern that some buyers purchase looking for a bump and if they determine that there isn't a chance of a bump, look to return the item to the seller. I don't agree with this tactic, but I understand that it does exist. However, I wouldn't jump to that conclusion in the event that someone wanted to make a return (I have NEVER had a return in more than 10 years of selling on eBay). Perhaps this is the result of quality scans and offering accurately described items.
That being said, it never ceases to amaze me that the redundancy of issues with buying/selling/feedback/etc seems to follow certain posters. Is it just that they like to complain or publicly gripe about their negative situations? Are they looking for sympathy?
Over my years on these boards, I've had a great many transactions. They have, for the most part, been positive. The ONLY negative transactions I've had have been as a buyer. The causes for my dissatisfaction were either overgraded material, slow shipping or shoddy packaging. I have not come here and outted any of the sellers, but suffice it to say they are some of the more vocal and self-promoting folks on these boards. My remedy? I will not buy ANYTHING from these folks again. I don't ask for a refund, a return or post about them. I just make a note to NEVER buy from them again.
Lessons are learned in this hobby/business. Some of the lessons aren't cheap.
The biggest lesson, and this one is FREE, is to do the right thing as a business person. Make the transaction right, even if the other party is wrong, and make note and don't do business with that person again. Running to the boards and creating a stink to prove that YOU'RE right is not going to solve the problem and in the long run, will lose potential customers.
Sometimes its best to just take the return without making an issue of it. Is it really worth the frustration? Good CS and people skills bring more business and will also ease your own mind.
<< <i>Bobby can you please provide more details about the transaction?
What is the card?
What is the concern of the buyer?
Etc. >>
Bobby?
<< <i>i think what i like best about bobbyw threads is just add water and watch it grow. >>
Ohhhhhhhh, rimshot! LOL
I'd really like to see the scans that were provided to the buyer. Where'd Bobby go?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
An experienced buyer of graded cards, should not even ask in my opinion. But I would take the return back (most likely), apologize for the trouble and likely just not do business with them.
However, if it is a major flaw, I would let them slide, if it was a customer of mine, I might just give a full refund.
It was however counter-productive to start this thread. The buyer likely feels like a victim...or tainted to some degree now.
Mark
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>I'd really like to see the scans that were provided to the buyer. Where'd Bobby go? >>
Bobby has a life and was out doing things....the card was bought from Memory Lane auction for $560 and sold for $575 (after shipping, I made a grand total of $8).....
This was the scan presented to the buyer.....
I did not send a scan of the back. I don't even know what the back looks like. He said there is an issue with the back. I bought the card from Memory Lane and they didn't scan the back either....
<< <i>Edited to add - telling them to pound sand probably is not the best way of rejecting the request >>
You are right Pete.....That is actually not my saying...I got that from a fellow board member (I forget who) and it always struck me as being funny.....I just phrased it for ya'lls benefit. I never told the buyer that.
A PSA 8 Michael Jordan is an actively traded card and there should be no returns expected.
You can buy this card all day online from a ton of sellers and you get what you pay for.
If he wants to provide a refund he certainly can but I think it is up to him.
Yes there is another buyer for this card but when you buy a PSA 8 Michael Jordan you are getting an investment grade card.
The buyer said there was an issue with the back and he didn't say what it was?
You buy and sell an $600 dollar card but you have no idea what the back looks like. No one has ever scanned the back of the card. And you're not at all interested in the buyers concerns or what his concerns even are.
Is this correct?
edit for wrong dollar amount
Ebay scan - no back #1
Ebay scan - no back #2
I am interested in his concerns, but not trying to be smart, but isn't that why we even use PSA to begin with!?!?!?! To take the guesswork out of the stated condition of cards? When we begin to undermine or question PSA as a legitimate 3rd party grader, than why are we even here?? Why do we send PSA cards to grade anyway?? It is not going to matter, because their opinion means zilch!
I had scans of the front and back as buyers wanted to see both.
Obviously Bobby can do what ever he wants here and if you choose the refund the money I am sure you can move the card.
I saw one go off very low in the memory lane auction and perhaps this is the card and the reason it went low before is why this buyer does not want the card at this price.
<< <i>I have seen a Michael Jordan card in the past....it is sorta pink and has the bulls logo in the middle....I did not scan the back of the card myself, nor did Memory Lane (who I bought it from)....if you look on completed Ebay listings, the one that sold for $639 did not scan the back either. Believe it or not, alot of people don't scan the back of cards.....
Ebay scan - no back #1
Ebay scan - no back #2 >>
Bobby:
Before you start to dig a hole, using the "others do it" excuse won't work. If there's an issue with the back, you have an obligation to find out exactly what the issue is before you come here suggesting (yes, there was an insinuation more than once) that the buyer is being difficult. You cannot, in my eyes, use the excuse that the back wasn't scanned when you bought it and others don't scan the back.
Either issue the refund or stick the buyer with the card, but stop trying to justify why YOU'RE right.
You've been a great member here, but your actions make me hesitant to buy from you here or on your eBay account (I will not post your ID out of respect).
And I am leery of taking returns, because my first (and only) experience with a return was when someone took my product and sent me back 4 empty PSA slab halves......how many people can say they actually received the proverbially "brick" in the mail?? I can....
<< <i>I am interested in his concerns, but not trying to be smart, but isn't that why we even use PSA to begin with!?!?!?! To take the guesswork out of the stated condition of cards? When we begin to undermine or question PSA as a legitimate 3rd party grader, than why are we even here?? Why do we send PSA cards to grade anyway?? It is not going to matter, because their opinion means zilch!
And I am leery of taking returns, because my first (and only) experience with a return was when someone took my product and sent me back 4 empty PSA slab halves......how many people can say they actually received the proverbially "brick" in the mail?? I can.... >>
Bobby:
Yes, that is the premise of TPG cards, but it is not a perfect world. Had you provided front and back scans, you're position would be more understandable. But since you didn't, perhaps there is a significant issue with the reverse. As a seller, I would be concerned about that and would not publicly post that I didn't ask about it when contacted by the buyer.
Your choices are simple. Issue a refund or don't. There doesn't need to be any drama or rallying of the troops. That's not going to happen. It is your choice and plenty have offered their opinions. How you handle it is your choice and one that YOU need to be comfortable with, not us.
<< <i>The sale took place on the B/S/T board. It has nothing to do with an auction.
With that said I'd take it back. I would NOT start a thread about it where the person who
bought it from me could happen upon the thread and see where I am contemplating telling
him to pound sand. That's for sure. As for Ebay I'm not so sure that sellers can even state
no returns on graded cards because PP will side with the buyer if he/she files a SNAD.
Also, the excuse that you used regarding the card would not bump so it gets returned
is a valid one, but is it valid in this specific case? Has this person done this before to you?
Did he mention this or at the least did you get that impression?
Sometimes it's best not to bring every single ebay/B/S/T problem to a message board.
Sometimes it's best to just handle it privately with the person that you transacted with.
Happy New Year,
Steve >>
Steve hits upon, as usual, some very good points.
I think that a seller should offer a return policy for anything they sell.
To do so is just good customer service.
<< <i>I am going to have to come to Bobby's defense here.
A PSA 8 Michael Jordan is an actively traded card and there should be no returns expected.
You can buy this card all day online from a ton of sellers and you get what you pay for.
If he wants to provide a refund he certainly can but I think it is up to him.
Yes there is another buyer for this card but when you buy a PSA 8 Michael Jordan you are getting an investment grade card. >>
So if it was a card that wasnt commonly traded it would be the correct thing to do to accept a refund? Where is the logic in that?
All the "buy it online all day from a ton of sellers" is not germane to the discussion of a refund?
"You get what you pay for" what in the world does that mean?
Also, what does the investment grade card line of thought have anything to do with the topic?
Look, I believe a seller should stand behind their product and if a buyer isnt happy with it then they need to accept the product back without hesitation.
Mickey71
<< <i>I did not send a scan of the back. I don't even know what the back looks like. He said there is an issue with the back. >>
If there's an issue with the back, regardless if you knew it or not, a full refund is 100% justified.
no need to start a thread for it.
For the life of me I can't understand your claim that you have no idea what the back looks
like! (unless of course you had ML ship it to your buyer) or I'm missing something here?
Steve