Fools and their money......another black mark for Ebay and the card collecting community. How many people need to get burned before they lose interest in the hobby?
No wonder so many of these cards from this era don't sell well.
If you have to worry about raw card auctions being fake at all times, there are too many sand traps with these.
It must be so tuff to collect these when you have to worry about not only fake raw cards but fake slabbed cards.
It seems you have to be a detective to even tell if they are real let alone in good condition.
If PSA is smart they will work hard on defending all of this believed fraud. I would crack down with massive penalties on people who make fake slabs. Not only jail time but patent infringement charges similar to some of the charges of music downloads.
Once the consequences hurt the fraud will be reduced but as long as people can get on EBAY and find bids it is no where close to being over.
We're the ones that pay, added paypal fees or increased insurance prices.
The buyer's protected as long as they can recognize the counterfiet. And if the seller can get away with the money they know something most good sellers don't.
The only buyers who are going to get scammed are the ones who pay, receive the fake card, and don't realize it's fake for at least several weeks or months. It's not like any buyer who files a SNAD complaint has any chance of not getting their money back.
Besides, this is probably a scam involving the seller and all his buyers to steal from ebay/pigpal. It's really not hard... get about 10 guys who associate with Tony Soprano types, set up one fake selling account and 9 buying accounts. When necessary, the 9 buying accounts can all be used to shill up the prices. The seller gets the money and sails off into the sunset, then the buyers all claim fraud and get their money back. Only they all know each other and pigpal gets left holding the bag, while sending the selling account to collections, only it doesn't matter because it was a fake account anyway.
wowser, this seller left a lot of cash on the table, can't wait to get the rose & unitas rookies from him. I think both will grade a 7.5 or higher , I think I am finally gonna score big time. Had to borrow 700 off a friend to be able to pay for this , but I think once graded and sold on ebay , I'll be able to save my house from property tax foreclosure and maybe buy a new fridge tired of storing my food outside in a styrofoam cooler.
Glad this seller had low feedback, as this probably kept the price low, plus on top of that the seller knocked off 10% of the total and gave free shipping and he even paid the western union fees as he said he needed the money quick. Wow it feels good to get a deal like this.
I am just glad ebay didn't stop the auction on the Rose cause I thought the only way to sell a rose Rc on ebay was it had to be graded by TPG Co.
I really needed a break like this. I'd bet his next group of auctions will go higher.
Much appreciation to you guys for all the knowledge I've gleaned from you through this site. Still, I have much to learn. To wit:
Is it so obvious that these are fakes because of some aspect of their appearance, or is it because it's a guy with zero feedback, with a trove of ungraded, high-grade cards?
Also: Hasn't the hobby progressed to the point where these high-value cards are protected by counterfeit laws? It would seem to be that this is a federal crime, though I admit I don't know much about these situations.
Thanks WinPitcher. I see that all of this guy's auctions have now been deleted save one, which was shut down early.
I have to say that it is disturbing to see that vintage cards can now be recreated to the point where they look exactly like originals, with only discerning, experience collectors able to tell the difference. Between this ruining the raw card market and guys switching cards within PSA cases ruining the graded market it does seem like a crisis could be on the horizon. I would love to see PSA get out in front of this from the standpoint of graded cards and switch to tamper proof holders for those collectors willing to take whatever grade the card is assigned.
hofautos
Posts: 1,934
Comments
I'll let others do that.
He doesn't see the need to get them graded.
ok...........
What could you possibly be worried about?
Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
- uncut
Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
<< <i> How many people need to get burned before they lose interest in the hobby? >>
Is this a trick question? lol
If you have to worry about raw card auctions being fake at all times, there are too many sand traps with these.
It must be so tuff to collect these when you have to worry about not only fake raw cards but fake slabbed cards.
It seems you have to be a detective to even tell if they are real let alone in good condition.
If PSA is smart they will work hard on defending all of this believed fraud. I would crack down with massive penalties on people who make fake slabs. Not only jail time but patent infringement charges similar to some of the charges of music downloads.
Once the consequences hurt the fraud will be reduced but as long as people can get on EBAY and find bids it is no where close to being over.
we ought to have a contest to see who leaves the 1st negative first. I'll go with the 53 topps Mantle winner.
I'm betting the 2nd neg will be first.
We're the ones that pay, added paypal fees or increased insurance prices.
The buyer's protected as long as they can recognize the counterfiet. And if the seller can get away with the money they know something most good sellers don't.
Besides, this is probably a scam involving the seller and all his buyers to steal from ebay/pigpal. It's really not hard... get about 10 guys who associate with Tony Soprano types, set up one fake selling account and 9 buying accounts. When necessary, the 9 buying accounts can all be used to shill up the prices. The seller gets the money and sails off into the sunset, then the buyers all claim fraud and get their money back. Only they all know each other and pigpal gets left holding the bag, while sending the selling account to collections, only it doesn't matter because it was a fake account anyway.
Glad this seller had low feedback, as this probably kept the price low, plus on top of that the seller knocked off 10% of the total and gave free shipping and he even paid the western union fees as he said he needed the money quick. Wow it feels good to get a deal like this.
I am just glad ebay didn't stop the auction on the Rose cause I thought the only way to sell a rose Rc on ebay was it had to be graded by TPG Co.
I really needed a break like this. I'd bet his next group of auctions will go higher.
Is it so obvious that these are fakes because of some aspect of their appearance, or is it because it's a guy with zero feedback, with a trove of ungraded, high-grade cards?
Also: Hasn't the hobby progressed to the point where these high-value cards are protected by counterfeit laws? It would seem to be that this is a federal crime, though I admit I don't know much about these situations.
Thanks again for all of your insights.
Although I'm sure if they wanted to the authorities could find something to charge that nitwit with.
The reverses all looked bad to me. The 55 Mantle appeared trimmed really bad.
My guess they were simply photo copies.
welcome to the boards.
I have to say that it is disturbing to see that vintage cards can now be recreated to the point where they look exactly like originals, with only discerning, experience collectors able to tell the difference. Between this ruining the raw card market and guys switching cards within PSA cases ruining the graded market it does seem like a crisis could be on the horizon. I would love to see PSA get out in front of this from the standpoint of graded cards and switch to tamper proof holders for those collectors willing to take whatever grade the card is assigned.