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Thoughts on this Wreath cent NEW PICS ADDED!

AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Ive had this in my collection for a few years, and have been thinking about upgrading to a problem free VF. This has nice color, just lots of planchet issues, primarily through the date. The color is quite nice, and because of the planchet flaws it was very affordable. There is no major corrosion, and the pitting on the reverse are planchet flaws.
Would you keep this one or upgrade it? Its currently in a non-top tier holder with Fine 15 details listed. PCGS would genuine it due to the planchet issues.

Sellers images below. Lots of slab glare. Will take in hand pics later this week when the snow melts and I can get to the bank!

image

Here are my images. The coin is an even brown, not as much reds in hand.

image

image
All coins kept in bank vaults.
PCGS Registries
Box of 20
SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!

Comments

  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623 ✭
    not having a date kills a coin for me even when everybody knows what it is. Messes with the history aspect of why I collect, I would get a new one.
  • ChrisRxChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    I see what might be some corrosion.
    image
  • mdwoodsmdwoods Posts: 5,557 ✭✭✭
    I like it. 1793 cents are special.
    National Register Of Big Trees

    We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
  • MikeInFLMikeInFL Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
    Overall I like the coin. Not knowing the price makes judgment of value difficult, but I would want one with a date if I were going to have one in my collection with F details. But that's just me.
    Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The obscured date is the only thing I don't care for, otherwise it's a decent example of this type.
    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • stockergreenstockergreen Posts: 483 ✭✭
    Love the coin but no no date takes away from the buzz.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If you can afford to upgrade it, I would do so. The coin does have some positive attributes, but its surfaces are not original, and it has had some stuff, probably corrosion removed. Because of this neither of the leading services will grade it, but it’s still worth $1,500 to $2,000 IMO.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    I paid more than what Bill has quoted, but will try an upgrade in either case. And there are some much uglier examples in PCGS and NGC graded slabs.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well my quote is probably off. I'm amazed at the prices that Chain and Wreath cents bring these days. Chain cents with big problems seem to flirt with 5 figures.

    A decade ago a Chain Cent that looked like that Wreath cent with cleaning other things going on would be a hard sell at $2,000. Wreath cents, which are more common, would be lucky get $1,000.

    The missing date is problem for that piece despite the fact that it speaks for itself.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • RTSRTS Posts: 1,408 ✭
    I can forgive a lot with respect to old copper but an obscured date, whether due to planchet issues, wear, damage etc. I cannot ignore.
    I once had a very nice 1839 N1 overdate with a small planchet flaw directly below the date and it proved to be such a distraction that I sold
    the coin...but one man's distraction is another man's beauty-mark.
    image
  • ProofCentsProofCents Posts: 1,656
    I think PCGS would ding it for the corrosion on the reverse
  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,603 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's really hard to put a price on a coin like this, as eye appeal and surface condition are everything, and each coin seems to sell on it's own merits. I would be reluctant to 'guess' at a value on this coin. Certainly I respect Bill's knowledge, as well as Ankur's experience with 'market pricing'. Recent Heritage results show numerous 'problem' wreath cents bringing <$2000, and a few, with minimal problems, bringing >$2000. Problem free VF's in major TPG holders are bringing $8000-9000 (higher than I would have expected - yowza! Think I'll stick with my middle dates).
    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The coin appears to be a Sheldon #10.

    In reviewing the die state information in Sheldon and Breen, I can't find any mention of a massive die failure over the date area. As such this is either an unknown terminal die state or some sort of damage. The date area appears to be raised, not into planchet which would indicate that it’s no a lamination. Laminations are common on the S-11 cents, and it could also apply the S-10 coins as well.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 28,959 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a problem with the date is still a problem coin reguardless of what it is.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    PCGS does grade early coppers with corrosion. This is a nice look, but there is even porosity, especially on the reverse.

    1793 Wreath

    AJ
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • Mission16Mission16 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭
    I wouldn't keep it out of my type set.
  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623 ✭
    your coin and the PCGS coin you linked to are not comparable. While PCGS does forgive some sins in early American coinage it is by no means a blank check to slab. Most coins still must pass the "is it worth VF30 Money sniff test", that coin will sell for VF30 money all day long.
  • koda2koda2 Posts: 15
    AnkurJ... very nice coin... :-)

    I must agree with many of the others... that having a date on the coin would be a lot better...
    If you can afford it, I'd upgrade it... BUT would be selective & take your time... you already have
    one... many ppl would love to be in your position or would like to have this coin. (even without a date)

    These type of coins are very difficult to get... regardless of grade. Look at the 1794 Starred Reverse coins...
    They are bringing HUGE money. There is one up for auction by Heritage now at upcoming FUN show. Which
    is rare. Many feel it will bring over $20,000+ (even with the planchet flaws!!)

    so keep searching for the coin you like... best of luck.

    koda
  • kurtdogkurtdog Posts: 1,456
    A couple things on the corrosion on the reverse. One, it's minor. Two, it looks stable. From what I've seen, I don't know that this one won't grade for that. I could be wrong, though.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    PCGS would not grade it due to the planchet flaw. They put coins with planchet issues in genuine holders.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • shasta7shasta7 Posts: 121
    AnkurJ...

    You are correct... that is what happened to my 1794 Starred Rev Cent...
    It is marked as Genuine 98

    shasta7
    Those who are collecting SILVER... will be wealthy shortly!!
  • joecopperjoecopper Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭
    Bill,
    I thought it had been worked on as well.
    Given the verdigris in the lower hair - Do you think it may have been heated to disguise heavier corrosion in the area of the date? The curl below the right leaf seems quite odd and the flow of the raised metal given the smoothness on

    Ankur - my opinion is to replace, color is almost too good given the other issues. in any case an interesting piece.
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    In process of being traded towards a PCGS VG10.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • AnkurJAnkurJ Posts: 11,370 ✭✭✭✭
    image The PCGS VG10 actually had more corrosion than this one. Sent it back.
    All coins kept in bank vaults.
    PCGS Registries
    Box of 20
    SeaEagleCoins: 11/14/54-4/5/12. Miss you Larry!
  • HoledandCreativeHoledandCreative Posts: 2,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think your 93 is a nice one. Good color and it doesn't take much imagination to see most of the date. Like you said a VG10 looked worse.

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