I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benifited both parties.
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal.
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benifited both parties. >>
Personally, if I owned a B&M, even if it was the first time he'd ever set foot in my door, I would have STILL honored the "locked in" price, because that's what any sane person would expect me to do. That is a dishonest/BS way to do business and I would make a formal complaint to the BBB, as I think this is bordering on illegal business practices. That's not something I normally do, but things like this really burn me up. A person's word has to mean something and their "locked in" word obviously means nothing.
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal. >>
I believe the point is, the shop owner could have chosen to do what Pat Vetter said, but he made a different decision, which was to not honor his price "lock" on the double eagles. To which, everyone is asking, just what kind of price "lock" is it if they don't honor it?
Like most of the respondents, I would have walked out the door at that time and never returned.
And I believe the OP should let the shop owner know how he feels about how he was treated, especially since he had done so much business with that shop. Letting the shop owner view this thread and see what the other posters had to say, might cause him to "see the light". i.e., If one person tells me I am wrong, that is one person's opinion, but if 50 people tell me I'm wrong, maybe I am really wrong!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal. >>
I believe the point is, the shop owner could have chosen to do what Pat Vetter said, but he made a different decision, which was to not honor his price "lock" on the double eagles. To which, everyone is asking, just what kind of price "lock" is it if they don't honor it?
Like most of the respondents, I would have walked out the door at that time and never returned.
And I believe the OP should let the shop owner know how he feels about how he was treated, especially since he had done so much business with that shop. Letting the shop owner view this thread and see what the other posters had to say, might cause him to "see the light". i.e., If one person tells me I am wrong, that is one person's opinion, but if 50 people tell me I'm wrong, maybe I am really wrong! >>
I agree with you, in part, but let me say what your post drives me to think:
That is : The problem with the market treating our coins like bullion is evidenced throughout this and many threads. If you base the value of the coin on "BULLION" prices, we end up with WHINE and sour grapes in the hobby and lots of decent coins back in the market. (with a mark up that would piss off any person who just sold it for less than what it retails at).
So, as we get lemons, we make lemonade. Whether or not this dealer got cold feet because of the volatility of the metal, or maybe not having a buyer right away , or if he just desired to "short the seller" is anyone's guess. I'm not going to judge. I'm going to "weigh" every possibility. This is a coin forum not a jury box and I don't know the dealer, so as a dealer I don't want to burn bridges with them or hang them out to dry without objective analysis.... but it does give us good insight to the market and the way the game is played... As for me, I shall remain objective.
<< <i>...A lot of people said Joan of Arc was a witch. >>
and what is wrong with being a witch? (no winky here... just my immediate reaction )
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted.
<< <i>What are these Spectrum and Heritage sheets? >>
Can anyone answer this? >>
I believe that each company distributes sheets with their bid and ask prices for generic gold type coins in various grades. I have seen the Heritage sheets at coin shows, but do not know how easy or difficult it is to obtain the same from Spectrum.
The coin shops behavior is so far from my morals that there way of thinking is totally foreign to me. I just can't imagine having the balls to change an agreed "lock" whether it looked like I would be loosing money or not. To me, it's a clear signal that if they are willing to so easily dishonor a short term lock with someone standing in front of them .... then they are total scumbags that cannot be trusted with anything. If they have balls to do that with a knowlegable collector, then they have balls to screw Grandmother out of 95% of the coins true value. You made a mistake by selling to them.
their 'lock-in' price must be for limited quantities
very similar to = if I would have only waited 6 months, I would have gotten 40% more >>
So if a little old lady walks into a shop with an AU chain cent and gets an offer of $100 for it and accepts it.....That's ok, because she accepted the offer?
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with the fact that you did so much business with them in the last month, try using that as leverage. Tell them you've done over 100k with them and they've always been fair. Then this happens. Let them know that if they dont "correct" their "mistake" you will just go elsewhere.
Should I have walked away, of course. I actually had the gold coins back in my pocket for a few minutes as I was asking about the big dramatic drop, I was told this was a drop everywhere for these type of coins and believed them as I trusted them. It is absolutely my fault for trusting that coin shop, I thought that we had a good business relationship. This is not some cheese stand or Cash-4-Gold that I sold the coins to. I am sure I am a speck of sand in the monetary amount of transactions Monarch does every hour. I trusted what the shop told me about a big drop, I had to take an hour off of work in the morning to sell to them as they were paying the highest is town. Unfortunately, I could not call anyone else to ask about the big drop on these coins. I now know that Monarch will not honor their own lock.
They would have not lost or ate any money if the would have honored my lock since their "adjusted" sell prices prices were still higher then the "locked" in buy prices.
I appreciate all the comments, and I think I may call Monarch today and at least let him know how I feel about them since there was not any big drop for Double Eagles. Maybe this little stunt of theirs will cost them a lot more then $2000 in the long run, I am sure my business with them will cost them that.
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
>>
I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with. Means about the same as "done deal" depending on the people and situation. Is locked price an actual legal obligation or just a casual gentleman's agreement? Personally, I woulda told the buyer to stick it where the sun don't shine and walked out. Perhaps if enough folks email this to them the might reconsider and do the right thing. Does anyone have evidence that the prices actually did drop or was he blowin smoke out of his arse?
Their sell prices on $20's are very reasonable. They must be in them cheap.
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<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with. Means about the same as "done deal" depending on the people and situation. Is locked price an actual legal obligation or just a casual gentleman's agreement? Personally, I woulda told the buyer to stick it where the sun don't shine and walked out. Perhaps if enough folks email this to them the might reconsider and do the right thing. Does anyone have evidence that the prices actually did drop or was he blowin smoke out of his arse? >>
It is a gentleman's handshake. However a gentleman's handshake in the numismatics industry is priceless. I have personally developed trust relationships with dealers and collectors all over the US and with these relationships come gentleman's handshakes on prices for goods and vice versa. Clearly Monarch is unable to stand behind their original agreement. They broke the handshake and clearly in the name of greed. They crossed a line that should have never been crossed as a dealer. How can anyone with this knowledge ever trust them again. That being said I would have told them to stick it and left.
<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with >>
I did not have a choice of them unlocking it and changing the price. They did not ask me if they could change the "locked" price, they just did it. They did it right in front of me about 5 to 10 minutes after they had me "locked-in", and I started protesting after the change, the had not even finished counting part of my silver and that uncounted portion had to go on a different invoice due to them switching it.
The guy at the counter acted like it was no big deal and I told him it was about a $2000 difference. He said no it's not and we are not going to sell them for less then we buy them. I told him it was a big deal and showed him the difference in price, he just said oh. I did have a choice not to sell them the gold coins though.
<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with >>
I did not have a choice of them unlocking it and changing the price. They did not ask me if they could change the "locked" price, they just did it. They did it right in front of me about 5 to 10 minutes after they had me "locked-in", and I started protesting after the change, the had not even finished counting part of my silver and that uncounted portion had to go on a different invoice due to them switching it.
The guy at the counter acted like it was no big deal and I told him it was about a $2000 difference. He said no it's not and we are not going to sell them for less then we buy them. I told him it was a big deal and showed him the difference in price, he just said oh. I did have a choice not to sell them the gold coins though. >>
Did they show you the sheet with the new lower pricing or did they expect you to take their word for it?
<< <i>Did they show you the sheet with the new lower pricing or did they expect you to take their word for it? >>
The don't have a sheet, they have 1 Huge LCD monitor in the middle of the store with prices that slightly fluctuate every second in real-time on most all of there traded coins. there is more then 50-100 items on it, including Saints and Libs in most grades, Buy and Sell prices. There are maybe 4-6 smaller LCD monitors at each station on the counter that are individually locked in when you sell to them and they start your invoice. The main monitor is not "locked in", but keeps the prices up to date. I was locked in for 5 to 10 min and they said they were changing the prices of only the saints and libs, a couple of minutes later, the main monitor flashed a few messages and changed. the small monitor had to have the prices "unlocked" to sync with the main monitor and they had to lock in again. This is the same time they are still counting up my silver and a small portion of my silver had to be calculated at the "new lock" prices and go on a new separate invoice at the new prices. I was given no choice about the price change and the old numbers were blown away, except I had them written down and still have them now.
They unlocked my locked price and relocked and blew away the old prices. $2000 difference
You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? I know values of common $20s can change quickly and the value of them can change independent of the value of gold. It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day.
I just think it would be wise to avoid accusing someone of unethical business practices when that person is not present to defend themselves.
<< <i>It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
No other local coin shops had dropped their prices I found out an hour later, and even the big players like Spectrum increased their prices, there was no dramatic drop on Libs or Saints except at my station that I was selling them.
That is still no excuse for having them not honor a locked in price.
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it.
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it. >>
I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet, I think there needs to be at least some gentlemanly understanding of that. If someone doesn't want to sell at that point, the solution is simple: don't sell. But, to want someone to take a financial hit based on an honest mistake? Well, to me, that is not a good way to do business.
Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering?
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it. >>
I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet, I think there needs to be at least some gentlemanly understanding of that. If someone doesn't want to sell at that point, the solution is simple: don't sell. But, to want someone to take a financial hit based on an honest mistake? Well, to me, that is not a good way to do business.
Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering? >>
<< <i>The don't have a sheet, they have 1 Huge LCD monitor in the middle of the store with prices that slightly fluctuate every second in real-time on most all of there traded coins. there is more then 50-100 items on it, including Saints and Libs in most grades, Buy and Sell prices. There are maybe 4-6 smaller LCD monitors at each station on the counter that are individually locked in when you sell to them and they start your invoice. >>
That doesn't sound to me like an employee needs to update a piece of paper.
If you have done as much business with them in the past, as you said you have, they should have just sucked it up, whether there was an 'update' or not.....locked means locked, plain and simple, and to treat a customer that has done the volume you have done with them, then pulling a stunt like that, I would have asked (perhaps not so politely) for my coins back, said "thanks for ****in' nothing", and, more than casually, mentioned they had seen the last of me. I don't believe in 'burning bridges', but this dealer burned this bridge himself.
With that being said, you DID choose to 'let it ride', and have to accept the fact you allowed it to happen (as someone said, a $2,000 lesson learned). Yes, you could have done something about it, but the dealer's actions were more unacceptable than the mistake you made by not packing up your items and leaving, IMO.
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
>>
I'm well aware of what a "lock" price is and I stand by my statement. Bottom line is he didn't have to sell...period. Nowhere in my original post did I state that I approved of what they did.
<< <i>I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet >>
The guy helping me was told by the owner that he was changing the prices now after I was locked in.
<< <i>Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering? >>
I have said it a couple times, other local coin shops and even some big national companies had not dropped prices for Sainst or Libs and even raised them within an hour of me selling, Spectrum had there buy prices for Junk/Jewelry Libs at $1410 and $1420 For Saints that is for Problem coins. I sold Monarch XF, AU, and CU coins for much much lower, As I trusted there word on this big dramatic drop.
Please read some of my previous posts, all of your questions you are now asking have been answered, more then once.
Dealers can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the premiums for common date $20s can and do fluctuate independent of the spot market for gold, so I'm not sure how it would be possible to have an up to the second price value for these items. I'd bet most of the other items on this LCD screen are products directly related to the prices of precious metals, such as Gold Eagles, Silver Rounds, Silver Bars, 90%, Krands, etc.
What I believe happened in this situation is that the dealer the OP sold to was buying based on the same pricing information the OP had obtained later in the day (assuming it was a fresh number), which was the current buy/sell prices posted by Spectrum and/or Heritage and/or the dealer posting site. The dealer intended to sell these coins wholesale and wanted to make $60 or so a coin after shipping and insuring them, and they understood that the company that they wholesaled to might be on the conservative end of the grading scale and that it would likely take two or three weeks to get payment. In the meantime, they would be tying up a lot of money to make 4.5 percent on the deal. Anyway, by now I'm sure some telemarketer is trying to get some sucker to pay $2,400 or more for them. Cha-Ching!
I sent an email to Monarch, earlier today, making them aware of this thread. They just replied, said they had posted a response on their blog and asked if I would link it here. So, here it is:
The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
I did bounce their stated prices against one of the nation's leading gold wholesalers and in fact their sell prices are temptingly close to that guy's buy price. But on the flip side, it makes their buy prices non-competitive. Ok, they are great to buy from if the grading is accurate and the coins aren't cleaned. But unless they maintain a 0-2% buy/sell spread, they aren't a very good option to sell to.
In their response they have offered to return your coins. I think I would take them up on their offer and run!
I would too only I suspect the price of gold might be lower now and I'd owe them money to get my coins back....lol. Unless they have some type of 7 to 30 day law enforcement hold on coin purchases your coins were most likely already wholesaled out.
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..."
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..." >>
I wonder if they would've been so quick to change it had someone come in and offered to buy them at that "high" sell price.
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Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead.
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead. >>
Of much greater relevance than today's price, is whether voiding the transaction would be a good deal or not for the seller. And I don't claim to know the answer to that.
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead. >>
It could go up $40 tomorrow or down another $20. No one knows. However, a mulligan was offered. It does not have to be accepted. Like it or not the OP signed off on the deal when he acceped the check. He did not have to. Having had that much experience selling and buying in that quantity the OP can be considered a seasoned vet. He is no rookie for sure. Obviously Monach did not have their act together. Under the circumstances I think unwinding the deal and calling it a do over is as good as it's going to get and is probably fair under the circumstances. JMHO. MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. ���After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. ���I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..." >>
They have real time pricing. How hard can it be not to update regularly?
<< <i>In their response they have offered to return your coins. I think I would take them up on their offer and run!
I would too only I suspect the price of gold might be lower now and I'd owe them money to get my coins back....lol. Unless they have some type of 7 to 30 day law enforcement hold on coin purchases your coins were most likely already wholesaled out.
roadrunner >>
Why shud it matter? The deal will be exactly reversed, assuming of course that they do have his exact coins.
Comments
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benifited both parties. >>
Personally, if I owned a B&M, even if it was the first time he'd ever set foot in my door, I would have STILL honored the "locked in" price, because that's what any sane person would expect me to do. That is a dishonest/BS way to do business and I would make a formal complaint to the BBB, as I think this is bordering on illegal business practices. That's not something I normally do, but things like this really burn me up. A person's word has to mean something and their "locked in" word obviously means nothing.
Gee, how do I really feel?
<< <i>
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal. >>
I believe the point is, the shop owner could have chosen to do what Pat Vetter said, but he made a different decision, which was to not honor his price "lock" on the double eagles. To which, everyone is asking, just what kind of price "lock" is it if they don't honor it?
Like most of the respondents, I would have walked out the door at that time and never returned.
And I believe the OP should let the shop owner know how he feels about how he was treated, especially since he had done so much business with that shop. Letting the shop owner view this thread and see what the other posters had to say, might cause him to "see the light". i.e., If one person tells me I am wrong, that is one person's opinion, but if 50 people tell me I'm wrong, maybe I am really wrong!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I think, as a B&M owner, if you did that much business with me over a 2 month period, I would have honored the price stated and eat any loss on this transaction and would have given you a personal explaination. And in the long run It would have benefitted both parties. >>
Me too. But this isn't a hypothetical. It's a real deal. >>
I believe the point is, the shop owner could have chosen to do what Pat Vetter said, but he made a different decision, which was to not honor his price "lock" on the double eagles. To which, everyone is asking, just what kind of price "lock" is it if they don't honor it?
Like most of the respondents, I would have walked out the door at that time and never returned.
And I believe the OP should let the shop owner know how he feels about how he was treated, especially since he had done so much business with that shop. Letting the shop owner view this thread and see what the other posters had to say, might cause him to "see the light". i.e., If one person tells me I am wrong, that is one person's opinion, but if 50 people tell me I'm wrong, maybe I am really wrong! >>
I agree with you, in part, but let me say what your post drives me to think:
That is :
The problem with the market treating our coins like bullion is evidenced throughout this and many threads. If you base the value of the coin on "BULLION" prices, we end up with WHINE and sour grapes in the hobby and lots of decent coins back in the market. (with a mark up that would piss off any person who just sold it for less than what it retails at).
So, as we get lemons, we make lemonade. Whether or not this dealer got cold feet because of the volatility of the metal, or maybe not having a buyer right away , or if he just desired to "short the seller" is anyone's guess. I'm not going to judge. I'm going to "weigh" every possibility. This is a coin forum not a jury box and I don't know the dealer, so as a dealer I don't want to burn bridges with them or hang them out to dry without objective analysis.... but it does give us good insight to the market and the way the game is played... As for me, I shall remain objective.
A lot of people said Joan of Arc was a witch.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>...A lot of people said Joan of Arc was a witch. >>
and what is wrong with being a witch? (no winky here... just my immediate reaction
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
<< <i>What are these Spectrum and Heritage sheets? >>
Can anyone answer this?
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i>
<< <i>What are these Spectrum and Heritage sheets? >>
Can anyone answer this? >>
I believe that each company distributes sheets with their bid and ask prices for generic gold type coins in various grades. I have seen the Heritage sheets at coin shows, but do not know how easy or difficult it is to obtain the same from Spectrum.
The coin shops behavior is so far from my morals that there way of thinking is totally foreign to me. I just can't imagine having the balls to change an agreed "lock" whether it looked like I would be loosing money or not. To me, it's a clear signal that if they are willing to so easily dishonor a short term lock with someone standing in front of them .... then they are total scumbags that cannot be trusted with anything. If they have balls to do that with a knowlegable collector, then they have balls to screw Grandmother out of 95% of the coins true value. You made a mistake by selling to them.
<< <i>wheres the problem?
you did much better than at cash4gold
they made offer and you ? accepted it ?
their 'lock-in' price must be for limited quantities
very similar to = if I would have only waited 6 months, I would have gotten 40% more >>
So if a little old lady walks into a shop with an AU chain cent and gets an offer of $100 for it and accepts it.....That's ok, because she accepted the offer?
It works sometimes...
<< <i>wheres the problem?
you did much better than at cash4gold
they made offer and you ? accepted it ?
their 'lock-in' price must be for limited quantities
very similar to = if I would have only waited 6 months, I would have gotten 40% more >>
I hope you were trying to be funny.
They would have not lost or ate any money if the would have honored my lock since their "adjusted" sell prices prices were still higher then the "locked" in buy prices.
I appreciate all the comments, and I think I may call Monarch today and at least let him know how I feel about them since there was not any big drop for Double Eagles. Maybe this little stunt of theirs will cost them a lot more then $2000 in the long run, I am sure my business with them will cost them that.
Perhaps someone should comment here
monarchcoin@gmail.com
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
<< <i>
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with. Means about the same as "done deal" depending on the people and situation. Is locked price an actual legal obligation or just a casual gentleman's agreement? Personally, I woulda told the buyer to stick it where the sun don't shine and walked out. Perhaps if enough folks email this to them the might reconsider and do the right thing. Does anyone have evidence that the prices actually did drop or was he blowin smoke out of his arse?
<< <i>What are the odds that they will see this thread?
Perhaps someone should comment here
monarchcoin@gmail.com >>
Their sell prices on $20's are very reasonable.
They must be in them cheap.
<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with. Means about the same as "done deal" depending on the people and situation. Is locked price an actual legal obligation or just a casual gentleman's agreement? Personally, I woulda told the buyer to stick it where the sun don't shine and walked out. Perhaps if enough folks email this to them the might reconsider and do the right thing. Does anyone have evidence that the prices actually did drop or was he blowin smoke out of his arse? >>
It is a gentleman's handshake. However a gentleman's handshake in the numismatics industry is priceless. I have personally developed trust relationships with dealers and collectors all over the US and with these relationships come gentleman's handshakes on prices for goods and vice versa. Clearly Monarch is unable to stand behind their original agreement. They broke the handshake and clearly in the name of greed. They crossed a line that should have never been crossed as a dealer. How can anyone with this knowledge ever trust them again. That being said I would have told them to stick it and left.
<< <i>Their sell prices on $20's are very reasonable. They must be in them cheap. >>
<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with >>
I did not have a choice of them unlocking it and changing the price. They did not ask me if they could change the "locked" price, they just did it. They did it right in front of me about 5 to 10 minutes after they had me "locked-in", and I started protesting after the change, the had not even finished counting part of my silver and that uncounted portion had to go on a different invoice due to them switching it.
The guy at the counter acted like it was no big deal and I told him it was about a $2000 difference. He said no it's not and we are not going to sell them for less then we buy them. I told him it was a big deal and showed him the difference in price, he just said oh. I did have a choice not to sell them the gold coins though.
<< <i>
<< <i>Their sell prices on $20's are very reasonable. They must be in them cheap. >>
It could be a really expensive promotion
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
<< <i>I guess when they lock in a price and offer to change it and you accept the changed price, then it never really was a lock to start with >>
I did not have a choice of them unlocking it and changing the price. They did not ask me if they could change the "locked" price, they just did it. They did it right in front of me about 5 to 10 minutes after they had me "locked-in", and I started protesting after the change, the had not even finished counting part of my silver and that uncounted portion had to go on a different invoice due to them switching it.
The guy at the counter acted like it was no big deal and I told him it was about a $2000 difference. He said no it's not and we are not going to sell them for less then we buy them. I told him it was a big deal and showed him the difference in price, he just said oh. I did have a choice not to sell them the gold coins though. >>
Did they show you the sheet with the new lower pricing or did they expect you to take their word for it?
<< <i>Did they show you the sheet with the new lower pricing or did they expect you to take their word for it? >>
The don't have a sheet, they have 1 Huge LCD monitor in the middle of the store with prices that slightly fluctuate every second in real-time on most all of there traded coins. there is more then 50-100 items on it, including Saints and Libs in most grades, Buy and Sell prices. There are maybe 4-6 smaller LCD monitors at each station on the counter that are individually locked in when you sell to them and they start your invoice. The main monitor is not "locked in", but keeps the prices up to date. I was locked in for 5 to 10 min and they said they were changing the prices of only the saints and libs, a couple of minutes later, the main monitor flashed a few messages and changed. the small monitor had to have the prices "unlocked" to sync with the main monitor and they had to lock in again. This is the same time they are still counting up my silver and a small portion of my silver had to be calculated at the "new lock" prices and go on a new separate invoice at the new prices. I was given no choice about the price change and the old numbers were blown away, except I had them written down and still have them now.
They unlocked my locked price and relocked and blew away the old prices. $2000 difference
I just think it would be wise to avoid accusing someone of unethical business practices when that person is not present to defend themselves.
<< <i>It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
No other local coin shops had dropped their prices I found out an hour later, and even the big players like Spectrum increased their prices, there was no dramatic drop on Libs or Saints except at my station that I was selling them.
That is still no excuse for having them not honor a locked in price.
It sounds like they saw me coming.
Edit for spelling
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it.
<< <i>
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it. >>
I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet, I think there needs to be at least some gentlemanly understanding of that. If someone doesn't want to sell at that point, the solution is simple: don't sell. But, to want someone to take a financial hit based on an honest mistake? Well, to me, that is not a good way to do business.
Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>You said you were in their store early and that there are numerous items that scroll on their screen. Is it possible the owner of the company had not yet had a chance to update all of the prices yet and the "lackey" who waited on you wasn't aware of it? It sounds to me that the guy just hadn’t had a chance to research prices that day. >>
That is their problem. Don't quote/lock in a price if you can't or won't honor it. >>
I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet, I think there needs to be at least some gentlemanly understanding of that. If someone doesn't want to sell at that point, the solution is simple: don't sell. But, to want someone to take a financial hit based on an honest mistake? Well, to me, that is not a good way to do business.
Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering? >>
<< <i>The don't have a sheet, they have 1 Huge LCD monitor in the middle of the store with prices that slightly fluctuate every second in real-time on most all of there traded coins. there is more then 50-100 items on it, including Saints and Libs in most grades, Buy and Sell prices. There are maybe 4-6 smaller LCD monitors at each station on the counter that are individually locked in when you sell to them and they start your invoice. >>
That doesn't sound to me like an employee needs to update a piece of paper.
With that being said, you DID choose to 'let it ride', and have to accept the fact you allowed it to happen (as someone said, a $2,000 lesson learned). Yes, you could have done something about it, but the dealer's actions were more unacceptable than the mistake you made by not packing up your items and leaving, IMO.
<< <i>
<< <i>I fail to see a problem with this. They offered, you accepted...end of story. When they changed the terms, and informed you in advance before you finalized the deal, regardless of how reluctant you were, you accepted. >>
Did you read the entire OP? Do you understand what a "lock" means? Based on your response I am not sure that you do.
I'm well aware of what a "lock" price is and I stand by my statement. Bottom line is he didn't have to sell...period. Nowhere in my original post did I state that I approved of what they did.
<< <i>I disagree. If an honest mistake had been made, such as one employee not being aware that another had yet to update a buy/sell spread sheet >>
The guy helping me was told by the owner that he was changing the prices now after I was locked in.
<< <i>Heck, for all I know, that company hadn't updated their buy prices for common date $20s for days. What were the other companies offering? >>
I have said it a couple times, other local coin shops and even some big national companies had not dropped prices for Sainst or Libs and even raised them within an hour of me selling, Spectrum had there buy prices for Junk/Jewelry Libs at $1410 and $1420 For Saints that is for Problem coins. I sold Monarch XF, AU, and CU coins for much much lower, As I trusted there word on this big dramatic drop.
Please read some of my previous posts, all of your questions you are now asking have been answered, more then once.
What I believe happened in this situation is that the dealer the OP sold to was buying based on the same pricing information the OP had obtained later in the day (assuming it was a fresh number), which was the current buy/sell prices posted by Spectrum and/or Heritage and/or the dealer posting site. The dealer intended to sell these coins wholesale and wanted to make $60 or so a coin after shipping and insuring them, and they understood that the company that they wholesaled to might be on the conservative end of the grading scale and that it would likely take two or three weeks to get payment. In the meantime, they would be tying up a lot of money to make 4.5 percent on the deal. Anyway, by now I'm sure some telemarketer is trying to get some sucker to pay $2,400 or more for them. Cha-Ching!
Response from Monarch
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
I did bounce their stated prices against one of the nation's leading gold wholesalers and in fact their sell prices are temptingly close to that guy's buy price. But on the flip side, it makes their buy prices non-competitive. Ok, they are great to buy from if the grading is accurate and the coins aren't cleaned. But unless they maintain a 0-2% buy/sell spread, they aren't a very good option to sell to.
roadrunner
I would too only I suspect the price of gold might be lower now and I'd owe them money to get my coins back....lol. Unless they have some type of 7 to 30 day law enforcement hold on coin purchases your coins were most likely already wholesaled out.
roadrunner
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..."
<< <i>
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..." >>
I wonder if they would've been so quick to change it had someone come in and offered to buy them at that "high" sell price.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead. >>
Of much greater relevance than today's price, is whether voiding the transaction would be a good deal or not for the seller. And I don't claim to know the answer to that.
<< <i>
<< <i>Bottom line they made an offer sell the coins back and unwind the transaction. I would take them up on it or forever hold my peace. Anything else is water under the bridge at this point. MJ >>
That is a pretty generous offer considering gold is down $20 today!!
I wonder if the offer would be the same if gold jumped $20 instead. >>
It could go up $40 tomorrow or down another $20. No one knows. However, a mulligan was offered. It does not have to be accepted. Like it or not the OP signed off on the deal when he acceped the check. He did not have to. Having had that much experience selling and buying in that quantity the OP can be considered a seasoned vet. He is no rookie for sure. Obviously Monach did not have their act together. Under the circumstances I think unwinding the deal and calling it a do over is as good as it's going to get and is probably fair under the circumstances. JMHO. MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>The official response seems like a "story" imo. The prices of circ $20's don't drop $80 in one day....at least not since the summer/fall of 2008. And we've certainly not seen any such action in the past few weeks. And an $80 drop in the prices of $20's should have also forced them to adjust the prices down a similar % on the $5's and $10's as well. They had a week to update their board for the "new" market. It's uncanny that the update happened shortly after the OP handed over his coins. If I knew my posted prices were not up to date I would have been the first to tell any customers coming through the door that the prices were not accurate. It's not something any attentive business owner would forget to do, esp. since most B&M shops are making most of their profits via bullion. That's something you update every date, if not every hour. My local shop doesn't post prices since they change their price with every $1 gold moves during the business day.
I would also have turned down the "deal" and walked out, while informing the owner that he just lost $100K+ of business per year going foward. Penny-wise, pound-foolish as they say. There have been some of my local shops over the years that did business like this, I haven't stepped foot in them since. Sounds like you can get better prices by going elsewhere. And there's always Heritage, Rarcoa, CNI, Apmex, and others who will pay very competitive market prices at all times. More often than not the cost of shipping is more than covered by a higher offer than your local shop can offer. If Monarch has been going through harder times, I don't see how lowered buy "and" sell prices fix anything. If anything, the buy prices get lowered and the sell prices remain the same or go higher. Regardless, sounds like they just aren't competitive anymore and their local market will adjust accordingly.
roadrunner >>
I agree about the $80 day being a huge price change. However, if I am understanding their blog correctly, it might have been much longer than a day's time since they had last updated their prices. It is not clear, how far in advance of the transaction-gone-bad the "incident" occurred: "...This trauma that we experienced is no excuse for treating clients poorly. ���After checking premiums before the twenty dollar gold transaction took place, I realized that both our buy AND sell prices seemed to be on the high side. ���I had not checked premiums since our incident as I have not yet gotten back to doing a lot of things that I used to normally do..." >>
They have real time pricing. How hard can it be not to update regularly?
<< <i>In their response they have offered to return your coins. I think I would take them up on their offer and run!
I would too only I suspect the price of gold might be lower now and I'd owe them money to get my coins back....lol. Unless they have some type of 7 to 30 day law enforcement hold on coin purchases your coins were most likely already wholesaled out.
roadrunner >>
Why shud it matter? The deal will be exactly reversed, assuming of course that they do have his exact coins.