With grading standards being so tight, do you prefer older or newer holders?

AnkurJ

I was thinking that the allure of older holders must not be as much as before. Even though grading in the early PCGS days was tight, with genuine codes I feel its tighter now, and less is forgiven on a coin. I have heard instances were a coin in an older slab was cracked and sent in, only to return in a genuine holder.

Then again, I could be way off.

Thoughts?

Bear

It depends in great measure on the series in question. As an example,

PCGS is much stricter on Morgan Dollar PL and DMPL now then in the past.

AnkurJ

Interesting! I have been looking at classic coinage (1790s to early 1800s) and dont always feel a coin in an old holder is a good thing.

blu62vette

<< <i>It depends in great measure on the series in question. As an example,

PCGS is much stricter on Morgan Dollar PL and DMPL now then in the past. >>



I agree. When buying DMPL's the OGH can mean semi PL today.

Justacommeman

Could care less about any given holder. The coin inside doesn't know what holder it's in. Besides mistakes and subjectivity occur every single day so that means every era of slab is possibly compromised.

On any given day................MJ

BaseballAbs

I don't know that i care which holder i get. I will tell you one thing i hate. When i buy a coin off some guy and i get it in the mail and the holder has scratches on it. Do people kick these things on the sidewalk?Some people don't care for their stuff to well. That being said give me the newest holder you got.

PerryHall

Makes no difference to me. It's all about the coin after all. Nice coins come in old holders and in new holders. Crappy coins also come in these holders.

Bear

Old holders for full red copper tends to indicate that the color is stable in a relative sense.

as such, red copper in old holders would tend to bring a premium assuming that the grade

is all there. This is a complex question that is being raised and it causes myriad swirls of

conflicting opinions depending on a variety of factors such as the improving accuracy and

knowledge base of graders, collector perception, series in question, moving industry standards

as well as grading company minor grading adjustments to more accurately address proper grading

of coins.

ricko

Because grades are opinions based on guidelines, coins may be more or less in the category of the grade assigned. Standards are not tight, since no standards exist. Graders may or may not be more critical, depending on the series, rarity or market conditions. Cheers, RickO

coinguy1

Unless a person plans to buy most of or the entire population of coins in a given type of holder, generalities about such (older or newer or such and such time period) grading and holders are pretty much worthless. What counts is the specific, real life coin in question.

It matters not, how liberal the grading tended to be at a given time, if the coin you are considering is an accurately graded jewel. Likewise, if the coin is an over-graded pig, what difference does it make, how strict the grading was, as a general rule, during the time it was encapsulated? In many, if not most cases, considerations about the type of holder are likely to interfere with an objective and informed assessment of the COIN.

dragon

How can grading standards possibly have tightened up? D. Hall has clearly stated numerous times that grading standards do not change.

After all, what possible use would any independent 3rd party grading service be if they were to change their standards from year to year? I always thought that's what dealers did whether they were selling you a coin or buying it from you?

Are you guys trying to say a dollar can really go from PL to non PL just depending on when it was graded?? C'mon...

JRocco

When I look at a coin to buy I base my determination on the coin.

PonyExpress8

Unless a person plans to buy most of or the entire population of coins in a given type of holder, generalities about such (older or newer or such and such time period) grading and holders are pretty much worthless. What counts is the specific, real life coin in question.

It matters not, how liberal the grading tended to be at a given time, if the coin you are considering is an accurately graded jewel. Likewise, if the coin is an over-graded pig, what difference does it make, how strict the grading was, as a general rule, during the time it was encapsulated? In many, if not most cases, considerations about the type of holder are likely to interfere with an objective and informed assessment of the COIN.

Couldn't put it any better then that Mark. BUY THE COIN ALWAYS, NOT THE HOLDER!

jamesfsm

On early type coins, I do not think PCGS has changed much from way back when to now. I find PCGS pretty consistent overall.

291fifth

Buy the coin for what it is.

crypto79

I like nice coins but I perfer nice coins in older holders with cac stickers if were being honest

DRUNNER

Another twist to the answer for the OP . .

I find that many (not all) of the coins in the older holders available in this era (2010--beyond) have been subject to a lot of scrutiny over the years by graders with far more acumen than what I possess. Most of the old holders with upgradeable coins (or those solid for the grade and cracked due to perceived upgrade possibilities) have long since been 'tried'. Yes, there are certainly exceptions and every day somewhere in the US somebody cracks open Grampa's safety deposit box and pulls out a double row box of Rattlers stuck away since 1987, but by and large, the field has been picked fairly clean. Still, I feel the same as many of the above posters . . . I am certainly going to look at the coin first. I have several Doilies that are in no way upgrade candidates, most are spot on, and only a couple would be considered 'shots' by those 'in the know'.

I do like the older holders, but as many here already know, I like them for the plastic, though that statement is considered heresy by many here. Keep in mind . . . I collect the history of our hosts here, just as a sidelight to my more traditional numismatic pursuits. So I have a warped view of the question posed by the OP . . . .

Nice question, and even nicer responses above . . .

Drunner

BLee23

Speaking of grading standards and Genuine holders, I just received the grades of my most recent submission. Had 5 coins that were all in problem free PCGS holders and cracked and resubmitted... 4 came back 91 Questionable Color, 1 came back 92 Cleaned.

I suppose you can't hold preference to a holder and just have to appreciate the coin inside.

Lakesammman

Repeat after me - "Buy the coin, not the holder".

speety

<< <i>Repeat after me - "Buy the coin, not the holder". >>



Buy the holder, not the coin.

dragon

<<< Speaking of grading standards and Genuine holders, I just received the grades of my most recent submission. Had 5 coins that were all in problem free PCGS holders and cracked and resubmitted... 4 came back 91 Questionable Color, 1 came back 92 Cleaned. >>>




That's ridiculous.........just absurd.

stealer

There's a PF60 1874 T$ on eBay right now that has one heck of a lot of hairlines all over the coin. It's in a white ANACS slab and I've had a bad experience with those white ANACS slabs before.

MrEureka

With grading standards being so tight, do you prefer older or newer holders?

Every time standards change, I prefer "No Holders" just a little bit more.

dragon

<< <i>With grading standards being so tight, do you prefer older or newer holders?

Every time standards change, I prefer "No Holders" just a little bit more. >>







Exactly!

roadrunner

Looks like I'm in a very tiny minority. If I like the coin, I always prefer it in an older holder, without exception. What can I say?

roadrunner

RedTiger

How about another answer? How about Secure Plus? I think I might favor that over the other choices, because the odds of a fake holder are near nil at present, and the odds of a messed with coin are much lower too.

fcloud

<< <i>Unless a person plans to buy most of or the entire population of coins in a given type of holder, generalities about such (older or newer or such and such time period) grading and holders are pretty much worthless. What counts is the specific, real life coin in question.

It matters not, how liberal the grading tended to be at a given time, if the coin you are considering is an accurately graded jewel. Likewise, if the coin is an over-graded pig, what difference does it make, how strict the grading was, as a general rule, during the time it was encapsulated? In many, if not most cases, considerations about the type of holder are likely to interfere with an objective and informed assessment of the COIN.

Couldn't put it any better then that Mark. BUY THE COIN ALWAYS, NOT THE HOLDER! >>



I like Mark's answer, too.

Broadstruck

I like my holders like I like my women... Older, scuffed, hazed, scratched, cracked, glue residue, and missing holograms!

golfer72

All things being equal I prefer my coin in an NGC prong holder. Great for seeing more of the coin!

crypto79

<< <i>All things being equal I prefer my coin in an NGC prong holder. Great for seeing more of the coin! >>



I like those holders too esp with gold inside. I wish PCGS would use their edge view inserts on their holders

crypto79

<< <i>There's a PF60 1874 T$ on eBay right now that has one heck of a lot of hairlines all over the coin. It's in a white ANACS slab and I've had a bad experience with those white ANACS slabs before. >>



I know the coin you're referring to and there is 0% chance of a cross

ambro51

Ive felt confident with a few recent raw purchases.

Bear

Buy with plastic. That is what credit cards are for.

stealer

<< <i>

<< <i>There's a PF60 1874 T$ on eBay right now that has one heck of a lot of hairlines all over the coin. It's in a white ANACS slab and I've had a bad experience with those white ANACS slabs before. >>



I know the coin you're referring to and there is 0% chance of a cross >>



Exactly what I was thinking.

scottgardener

David Hall did at one point admit that some of the earliest grades were tighter, particularly at MS65 and higher. For the most part, though, I suspect most upgrade candidate rattlers and old holders have already been sent in. If anything, in theory, the green holders might be more picked-through than the more recent coins, more likely to be graded based on their first try.

With the exception of the occasional try, mainly for educational purposes, I've avoided the regrade game. I've only cracked open one holder--an Accugrade.

MidLifeCrisis

<< <i>Looks like I'm in a very tiny minority. If I like the coin, I always prefer it in an older holder, without exception. What can I say?

roadrunner >>


You may be in the minority, but you are not alone.

Unknown

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notwilight

<< <i>Repeat after me - "Buy the coin, not the holder". >>



Given the coin, I prefer the old holder. If you offer me the same coin in an OGH and a blue holder, I'll take the ogh. Personal preference. I have several upgrade candidates in OGHs that I pass on sending in for the quarterly special. --Jery

TomB

I think the responses by coinguy1, crypto79 and roadrunner are excellent and not mutually exclusive.

AnkurJ

With the lack of coin doctors when older holders were in use, is it safe to say gold in these holders is most likely not messed with?

stman

As far as I'm concerned, I don't see the services as being "tight" just because they bag coins now that they previously slabbed.
I think they got too loose and for quite a few years. It seems they slabbed many coins that IMO should have never made it. So perhaps folks got too used to the gifts, and learned to grade this way. Such a shame as I can understand it's probably frustrating to some.

As far as standards and holders, it doesn't matter to me whatsoever. Sure, I like the old holders just like most. But I don't go nuts over any holders. Or be concerned if grading was/is tight or not. And certainly never take anything as an absolute.

coinguy1

<< <i>With the lack of coin doctors when older holders were in use, is it safe to say gold in these holders is most likely not messed with? >>

You are making an incorrect assumption in that regard. There were plenty of coin doctors back then and it is not safe to say that gold in older holders has not been messed with.

SullyFan

I'm afraid that "buy the coin, not the holder" is too obvious a reply to the question. Allow me a different view...

I prefer older holders for coins with remaining luster because time allows blotchy fields to show up if the coin has been improperly dipped. For coins without luster I prefer the newest holders because the best 20% of a given grade haven't had time to be resubmitted for upgrade. Odds are better for locating really nice material for the price.

roadrunner

With the lack of coin doctors when older holders were in use, is it safe to say gold in these holders is most likely not messed with?

I don't think there was a lack of coin doctors back then. Though maybe not quite the sophistication and varied techniques they use today. Most of what I ran into back than were AT'd coins. And I had my share of crackouts in the late 1980's and early 1990's that came back no grade because of AT'd surfaces. Didn't do much with gold back then so I can't comment on the use of putty back then. I never heard much about puttying coins until the past decade.

roadrunner

TomB

<< <i>With the lack of coin doctors when older holders were in use, is it safe to say gold in these holders is most likely not messed with? >>



You're killing me!!!

Broadstruck

<< <i>With the lack of coin doctors when older holders were in use, is it safe to say gold in these holders is most likely not messed with? >>



Doctor wise when third party grading was just taking off dealers would openly mention to collectors whom not to purchase from on the browse floor. Today it's all see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil on the whole doctoring subject.

PawPaul

Bear brought up the stability issue ;

if you have a coin in a slab that is 15 or 20 years old , odd's are in 15 or 20 more years - it will look the same ....

I just hate it when they turn in the holders

Bear

I believe that in truth, the oldest profession in the history of the world are the coin doctors.

With civilizations earliest coinage, there was clipping, shaving, forgeries and other manipulations

to turn a profit. While it may not have been intended to defraud collectors at that early stage, it surly

was intended to defraud the citizenry as well as the National treasury in question.

ChrisRx

Bear, can you guess the grade on these?:

OKbustchaser

Regardless of whether the grading standards have tightened, loosened, or remained constant throughout any particular TPG's history I much prefer the looks of the older holders for all three of the majors. The older slabs simply are more attractive to me than any of the current ones. I especially like the smaller sizes.

JRocco

If you are buying a coin that has sensitive surface concerns like this 72 DDO, I prefer the holder to be an older one.