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AnkurJ

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epcjimi1

You talked to the grade room manager? I can never get past the person who answers customer service...

CCC2010

MacCrimmon

I'll pay you 2x melt plus insured shipping.

SeattleSlammer

Why NGC? Just send it back to PCGS and it'll probably grade.

(this is what you get for cracking a perfectly good old ANACS slab.... )

AnkurJ

<< <i>Why NGC? Just send it back to PCGS and it'll probably grade.

(this is what you get for cracking a perfectly good old ANACS slab.... ) >>



Oh I didn't crack it. Sent in as a crossover. I dont have the guts to crack a coin this pricey. What annoys me is that I have seen obviously cleaned coins in their holders with a grade.

SeattleSlammer

Ahhhh, got it. I should read more carefully.

Good!! Cool coin.

RYK

The first time they were just being nice. The color looks unnatural to me, but the photo looks overexposed, so all bets are off. There's the red splotch in the hair that I remember not liking the first time I saw it. It looks like foreign material. I would not expect any different results at NGC.

AnkurJ

How do they grade this then?

1795 Dollar

RedHerring

Sorry about the results. So after talking with them, they cracked it out and now it's in a Genuine holder? Or did they leave it in the ANACS holder and call it cleaned?

If it's still in the ANACS holder, I'd crack it out.

RYK

<< <i>How do they grade this then?

1795 Dollar >>



I think that, based on the photo, the coin is graded appropriately. For the grade level, to me, the hairlines are acceptable and may be from circulation and handling. On this forum, there is the notion that if you see hairlines a coin has been cleaned and not market gradable, and if you do not, the coin has not been cleaned and is gradable. Neither is necessarily true.

Anyway, two wrongs do not make a right. Before spending more money on grading, I would recommend that you take the coin to the Parsiappany show and get some opinions of the coin, in-hand. Doesn't njcoincrank frequent that show?

BigE

Keep trying, try at NGC too, don't give up so easy-------BigE

RYK

BTW, this is the natural color for a mid-grade circ 1800 $5:

TahoeDale

I have been collecting early $5 gold since 1993. All of my present dates are in PCGS slabs MS 62 to 64.

But at one time I did have 2 dates that had been holdered by NGC--one a 63 and another in 64. Both failed to have any color", and when I tried to cross at grade, they both came backed DNC. So, I then had an expert look closely, and the result was a light cleaning.

I thought both coin were nice, but I realized there is more to grading early gold( and getting them slabbed by PCGS) than I thought.

If your coin does not have serious hairlines, then I would try for a cross at grade at NGC. I like the strike and absence of even moderate marks. It has a shot.

AnkurJ

...

RYK

The surface/color, again, look a bit funky, but the red mark in the hair looks like a smudge on the slab (phew). There is only so far that you can take grading coins by an image. The real nuances require in-hand observation and comparison with all of the other coins that you have inspected in-hand.

AnkurJ

There are no hairlines on liberty or the eagle/shield. I spoke to customer service as to why the first time no problems were found and the second time there was, and the answer I got was that it may have been looked at by another set of graders.

A bit puzzled by this, and he said you can get a different opinion/grade/possible genuine on a coin each time you submit it.......

guitarwes

<< <i>A bit puzzled by this, and he said you can get a different opinion on a coin each time you submit it....... >>



Exactly, opinions, that's all you get. I like your pics alot better than the Heritage pics in your first post. That's what I would expect a mid-AU gold coin to look like and don't see why (from the pics) it wouldn't certify.

TwoSides2aCoin

Mustard yellow gold does give the appearance of having seen a bath. The patina is gone. Lack of dirt is one indication of a cleaning since the coin is 210 years old. There are multiple reasons why we net grade coins. Cleaning was an accepted form of conservation as recent as yesterday, in many circles.
An archeologist has to see what's underneath all the crud in order to ascertain what the true condition of an artifact is, perhaps.

.

MikeInFL

I'm no expert on these coins, but I see no reason that the coin won't slab if submitted a few more times.

I like RYK's idea to have a few experts view the coin in-hand and give you their take.

BillJones

Seeing the coin in person is the key, but the obverse especially looks odd to me. It has smoothed look to it, and the copper spot area at the back of the cap looks like some metal was removed and smoothed out in that area. The hair detail there does not look to have either the original sharpness or the muted detail that results from natural wear.

Compare you coin with this piece, which is in a PCGS AU-58 holder. One thing to remember is that once PCGS and NGC were established ANACS was never the first grader of choice for most dealers and collectors. People often sent coins to ANACS for a reason. Yes there are exceptions, but you need the expertise to spot them.

jamesfsm

How much benefit do you see from crossing to PCGS 50-53 or NGC 53-55?

RYK

<< <i>How much benefit do you see from crossing to PCGS 50-53 or NGC 53-55? >>


The coin is considerably more salable in a PCGS or NGC holder. I suspect that whoever had the coin graded at ANACS, first tried PCGS and NGC, too. Unless you have superior knowledge and a superior eye, buying expensive coins today in ANACS holders and expecting them to cross at PCGS or NGC is not going to lead to a rewarding or pleasant experience in most cases.

AnkurJ

I will send her to NGC. They just crossed a Flowing Hair Half that PCGS said was cleaned. It's funny because there are no hairlines on the coin at 10x. And the coin has album toning.

I guess that's the game. Win some lose some. But it's amazing how the standard changes. I got a CC half eagle from teletrade graded by PCGS as VF20 that was obviously cleaned. It's going right back. The reverse was significantly hairlined.

coolest

I dont understand how so many circulated gold coins can be considered cleaned and ungradable (even with no sign of hailines), when almost every sub MS 64 gold coins show some hairlines.

It seems a major inconsistency in the grading.

RYK

<< <i>I will send her to NGC. They just crossed a Flowing Hair Half that PCGS said was cleaned. It's funny because there are no hairlines on the coin at 10x. And the coin has album toning.

I guess that's the game. Win some lose some. But it's amazing how the standard changes. I got a CC half eagle from teletrade graded by PCGS as VF20 that was obviously cleaned. It's going right back. The reverse was significantly hairlined. >>


Yes, that coin was obviously a pig. I am not sure why you bought that in the first place.

golden

The lesson of this story is,if you want a coin in PCGS holder buy the coin in a PCGS holder.

AnkurJ

<< <i>

<< <i>I will send her to NGC. They just crossed a Flowing Hair Half that PCGS said was cleaned. It's funny because there are no hairlines on the coin at 10x. And the coin has album toning.

I guess that's the game. Win some lose some. But it's amazing how the standard changes. I got a CC half eagle from teletrade graded by PCGS as VF20 that was obviously cleaned. It's going right back. The reverse was significantly hairlined. >>


Yes, that coin was obviously a pig. I am not sure why you bought that in the first place. >>



Live & learn I guess. Thankfully I can return it.
With the advent of the Genuine codes, PCGS has started to not grade coins that they did grade for years.
It's frustrating and confusing that the standard has changed THAT much.

airplanenut

<< <i>I am puzzled because the first time through they didn't find any problems, just didn't agree with my min grade of 53, and now they find cleaning? >>

In what you wrote, you never mentioned the manager stating that they didn't find problems the first time around. You reported his statement that they didn't agree with your minimum. If your minimum were AG3, they wouldn't agree with it if the coin deserved, in their opinion, a genuine-only/problem holder. When you crossed it freely, you allowed them to grade the coin as they saw correct, which in this case meant a simple authentication with no numeric grade.

AnkurJ

ttt