Pro Football HOF Semi-Finalists Announced - UPDATED with Finalists

pswebauctions

UPDATED:
I missed the announcements of the finalists. Thanks to the members who posted the information near the bottom of this post. Hers is the list.

Enshrinement Class of 2011 finalists
01/09/2011

Five first-year eligible players – Jerome Bettis, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin, Deion Sanders, and Willie Roaf – are among the 15 modern-era finalists who will be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame when the Hall’s Selection Committee meets in North Texas on Saturday, Feb. 5, 2011.

Joining the five first-year eligible players, are nine other modern-era players and a contributor. The 15 modern-era finalists, along with the two senior nominees announced in August 2010 (former Washington Redskins linebacker Chris Hanburger and former Los Angeles Rams linebacker Les Richter) will be the only candidates considered for Hall of Fame election when the 44-member Selection Committee meets. To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum positive vote of 80 percent.

Also, for the second consecutive year, the Pro Football Hall of Fame has teamed up with Van Heusen and JCPenney to ask fans to voice their choice for whom they think should be included in the Pro Football Hall of Fame’s Class of 2011 at www.fanschoice.com.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee’s 17 finalists (15 modern-era and two senior nominees*) with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Jerome Bettis
Tim Brown
Cris Carter
Dermontti Dawson
Richard Dent
Chris Doleman
Marshall Faulk
Charles Haley
*Chris Hanburger
Cortez Kennedy
Curtis Martin
Andre Reed
*Les Richter
Willie Roaf
Ed Sabol
Deion Sanders
Shannon Sharpe

Here is who I think gets in this year.
Deion Sanders
Jerome Bettis
Cris Carter
Marshall Faulk
Reichard Dent





The NFL network is releasing the 26 modern-era semi-finalists. Here is the first 21. The last 5 will be updated as soon as they are announced.


FIRST 10 REVEALED As announced
on NFL Network this morning, here are 10 semifinalists for the Class of 2011:

Tim Brown, WR
Cris Carter, WR
Roger Craig, RB
Terrell Davis, RB
Dermontti Dawson, C
Andre Reed, WR
Shannon Sharpe, TE
Ray Guy, P
Don Coryell, Coach
George Young, GM

NEXT 11
The list of semifinalists continues to roll out on NFL Network this morning. Here are 11 more just announced.

Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner
Richard Dent, DE
Chris Doleman, DE/LB
Kevin Greene, LB/DE
Charles Haley, DE/LB
Lester Hayes, CB
Cortez Kennedy, DT
Art Modell, Owner
Ed Sabol, Contributor
Paul Tagliabue, Contributor
Aeneas Williams, CB/S

More to come... UpdatedUpdated

SDSportsFan

Here are the other five, according to NFL.com:

Jerome Bettis
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Willie Roaf
Deion Sanders

Steve

3SportHOFCOLLECTOR

The complete list of 26 modern-era semifinalists is as follows:

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
Tim Brown, WR/KR – 1988-2003 Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, 2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Don Coryell, Coach – 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers
Roger Craig, RB – 1983-1990 San Francisco 49ers, 1991 Los Angeles Raiders, 1992-93 Minnesota Vikings
Terrell Davis, RB – 1995-2001 Denver Broncos
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-1997 San Francisco 49ers
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Chris Doleman, DE/LB – 1985-1993, 1999 Minnesota Vikings, 1994-95 Atlanta Falcons, 1996-98 San Francisco 49ers
Marshall Faulk, RB – 1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams
Kevin Greene, LB/DE – 1985-1992 Los Angeles Rams, 1993-95 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1996, 1998-99 Carolina Panthers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Charles Haley, DE/LB – 1986-1991, 1999 San Francisco 49ers, 1992-96 Dallas Cowboys
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Cortez Kennedy, DT – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Curtis Martin, RB – 1995-97 New England Patriots, 1998-2005 New York Jets
Art Modell, Owner – 1961-1995 Cleveland Browns, 1996-2003 Baltimore Ravens
Andre Reed, WR – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Ed Sabol, Contributor – 1964-1995 NFL Films
Deion Sanders, CB/KR/PR – 1989-1993 Atlanta Falcons, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-99 Dallas Cowboys, 2000 Washington Redskins, 2004-05 Baltimore Ravens
Shannon Sharpe, TE – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens
Paul Tagliabue, Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Aeneas Williams, CB/S – 1991-2000 Phoenix/Arizona Cardinals, 2001-04 St. Louis Rams
George Young, Contributor – 1968-1974 Baltimore Colts, 1975-78 Miami Dolphins, 1979-1997 New York Giants, 1998-2001 National Football League

The list of 26 semifinalists will be reduced by mail ballot to 15 modern-era finalists. That list increases to 17 finalist nominees with the inclusion of the two recommended candidates of the Hall of Fame’s Seniors Committee. The Seniors Committee nominees, who were announced in August, are linebacker Chris Hanburger, Washington Redskins (1965-1978) and linebacker Les Richter, Los Angeles Rams (1954-1962).

itzagoner

that is a VERY weak list.

i will hold out hope for Dent, one of my favorite Bears.......and Lester Hayes - one of my all-time favorite humans.

3SportHOFCOLLECTOR

I think both Vets Richter and Hanburger, Deion Sanders, Faulk, Martin, Bettis, and Roaf. I think full 7. All three running backs are first ballot especially Martin and Bettis.

itzagoner

Don Coryell, quite deserving.

Art Modell, would be interesting to see him accept honors in Ohio.

3SportHOFCOLLECTOR

Both Richter and Hanburger probably in. Deion is a lock. 2 out the 3 Running Backs will probably get in for sure and Bettis probably is probably the biggest lock of the 3. If Curtis Martin, the most underrated player for his era does not get in on his first try I will be shocked. Willie Roaf along with Odgen the Best Tackle of his era is likely in either this class or the next. I hope Ray Guy sneaks in to the class, but I doubt it.

There is that I eliminate right away. Debartolo is probably most worthy, but he won't get in.
Debartolo, Sabol, Modell, George Young,Coryell

Cortez, Lester Hayes, Doleman, Aeneas Williams are close but should not be finalists.
Reed, Carter,Sharpe, and Tim Brown should have gone in already. They are some of the greatest Receivers and Sharp was a great pass catching TE.

Terrell Davis and Roger Craig belong in the Hall of Fame. Davis had a short career, but his peak was better than Earl Campbell and Sayers

JasP24

Deion Sanders and Marshall Faulk are the only locks this year.

This is actually a very STRONG class, with as many as 5 first year eligible guys most likely being in the final 15 come January. Next year, there probably won't even be ONE first year eligible in the final 15!

Bettis and Martin were clearly not in the same class and Faulk. Bettis and Martin are locks for 2012 in a weak class.

Richard Dent is by far the top defensive player, and should finally get in.

Also, with 6 coach/contributors in the semifinals, it seems to me there is a push to get one (or more) of them in. So won't be surprised to see one voted to the HOF this year. Will depend on which of them make the final 15. Could be any of them except Tagliabue, who will never get the votes until the CBA is worked out. The current situation was done on his watch. If they end up with a lockout and no football next year, Tagliabue will bear some of that blame.

Don't sleep on Guy and Lester Hayes either. This is their last year of modern eligibility, so one of them could get a push into the finals and end up getting the votes for induction.

itzagoner

i'm not feelin' it on Faulk, i think like Roger Craig being in the right place at the right time with Walsh and Montana, he had Vermeil and Warner.

when i say weak, i just don't see one name that really jumps out at me and says "automatic".....yeah, Deion was great, but everything about him was such a show, i'm just not that attached, but i will agree that he IS one the best all-around players the game has ever seen.

ya know, if emotions counted for something, Terrell Davis would be unanimous......too bad such a bright star flickered out too soon.

VitoCo1972

<< <i>Both Richter and Hanburger probably in. Deion is a lock. 2 out the 3 Running Backs will probably get in for sure and Bettis probably is probably the biggest lock of the 3. s >>




We had this discussion on my podcast a few weeks ago and we ranked those three in terms of who is most deserving. We came out this way:

1 - Faulk
2 - Bettis
3 - Martin

and that wasn't to denigrate Martin (he is SUPER underrated and a surefire HOFer) but I would draft Faulk's career first, then Bettis, then Martin.

drewsef

<< <i>i'm not feelin' it on Faulk, i think like Roger Craig being in the right place at the right time with Walsh and Montana, he had Vermeil and Warner.

when i say weak, i just don't see one name that really jumps out at me and says "automatic".....yeah, Deion was great, but everything about him was such a show, i'm just not that attached, but i will agree that he IS one the best all-around players the game has ever seen.

ya know, if emotions counted for something, Terrell Davis would be unanimous......too bad such a bright star flickered out too soon. >>



Faulk would have made the HOF had he stayed with the really average teams he had with the Colts. Yes, he got more opportunities with the Rams offense, and he took complete advantage and stayed healthy while taking all of that additional punishment, and mostly on turf too(not to be overlooked).

Not to attack, but it seems completely hypocritical to say you see no one that's an automatic, yet state Deion is one of the best all-around players ever.

It's unfortunate that the skill position players get all the hype, there are so many defensive players deserving. The people who argue kickers and punters don't deserve to be in the Hall are truly ignorant imo. Ray Guy and several other kickers and punters have been passed over for way too long.

itzagoner

<< <i>

<< <i>i'm not feelin' it on Faulk, i think like Roger Craig being in the right place at the right time with Walsh and Montana, he had Vermeil and Warner.

when i say weak, i just don't see one name that really jumps out at me and says "automatic".....yeah, Deion was great, but everything about him was such a show, i'm just not that attached, but i will agree that he IS one the best all-around players the game has ever seen.

ya know, if emotions counted for something, Terrell Davis would be unanimous......too bad such a bright star flickered out too soon. >>



Faulk would have made the HOF had he stayed with the really average teams he had with the Colts. Yes, he got more opportunities with the Rams offense, and he took complete advantage and stayed healthy while taking all of that additional punishment, and mostly on turf too(not to be overlooked).

Not to attack, but it seems completely hypocritical to say you see no one that's an automatic, yet state Deion is one of the best all-around players ever.

It's unfortunate that the skill position players get all the hype, there are so many defensive players deserving. The people who argue kickers and punters don't deserve to be in the Hall are truly ignorant imo. Ray Guy and several other kickers and punters have been passed over for way too long. >>



let me be completely honest about Deion.

i think he was "created".....by that, i mean it seemed he was a champion as an opportunist by associating himself with the right organizations at exactly the right time, so if nothing else, he should be rewarded for being quite perceptive to winning situations, but in a traditional sense, he never carried a team for any length of time or enacted a relationship with the fans and supporters of a franchise he might have chosen to stay with for awhile......no doubt he was a great player, but i still don't get that feeling that i would from a player of similar substance who had an identity that lasted with one team.

hope that makes sense.

JasP24

Nothing wrong with having personal opinions on players and expressing them here. But I hope that person would understand that the only opinions that matter is that of the voters. If you know the process, you also understand that a players career accomplishments weigh heavily on the voters. Faulk is FAR more decorated and accomplished than either Bettis or Martin. All 3 are HOFers, but Faulk is as sure fire as they come. I can't honestly name one thing or one facet of his career that doesn't SCREAM HOF lock..So for anyone who doesn't see the same thing, I'd really have to wonder what they were watching???

Speaking on defensive players, the committee has made a concerted effort to get more defensive players in the HOF the last few years. You have TWO LB's selected as the Senior candidates this year...You also have Deion going in as a lock. Dent will also eventually get in. Aeneas Williams should get in down the road. Kennedy, Greene, Haley and Doleman have all been getting some votes in recent years. Although we probably won't see more than 2 of those 4 going in. Strahan and Sapp will come up in 2013. Derrick Brooks and Zach Thomas in 2014. Junior Seau in 2015. All of these guys will get hard looks when they come up. So I don't think we will have any Classes in the next 5+ years that doesn't have at least one, if not more defensive players.

Not sure that I agree that other defensive guys aren't getting in because of skill player hype. In fact, last year Rickey Jackson got in over more deserving Cris Carter and Shannon Sharpe because HE got so much hype as the greatest ever Saints player...There's really no one else in the defensive HOFer conversation other than those I listed above...Am I missing someone?

And the problem with putting any special teams players in...Is that you are electing a guy who only played 5-10 snaps a game, and you are giving him a slot over another equally deserving player who played 50+ snaps a game. But with 6 non-players in this years semifinalist, plus Ray Guy's last year of eligibility...I wouldn't be totally shocked to see him get the nod. If a Punter is ever elected, Ray Guy would be the one...With kickers, Jan Stenerud is in, Morten Andersen will get in...Maybe Vinatieri gets in one day...But it's just tough to really be THAT big of a difference maker when you don't play but a few snaps per game and rarely (if ever) touch the ball or a player carrying the ball..

My guess on the 15 finalists, top 5 being my early HOF picks:

Deion Sanders
Marshall Faulk
Richard Dent
Willie Roaf
Ed DeBartolo, Jr.

Shannon Sharpe
Ray Guy
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis
Dermontti Dawson
Cortez Kennedy
Andre Reed
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Ed Sabol

Blacklabelsociety

Kevin Green was a beast. I like his chances.

JasP24

Deion Sanders invented the term "Shutdown" corner. If you want to teach a young kid how to play Cover CB on the highest level, put on some Deion game film...Did he tackle? No..Was he an opportunist? Yes. Was he a great guy personally? Not even close. But none of these are going to matter because when he was in COVERAGE he was the best I've ever seen. And when he got his HANDS ON THE BALL? Forget about ittttttt....

I'm not a Deion fan by any means, but you can't allow personal feelings to cloud what you see on the field. No one has ever played the position of cover corner as well as Deion. ZERO.

JasP24

<< <i>Kevin Green was a beast. I like his chances. >>



Greene was essentially a DPR (designated pass rusher), which means he is in direct competition with Charles Haley and Chris Doleman who player similar games. Haley and Doleman had slightly more accomplished and accredited careers. Greene certainly is in the conversation, as he continues to make the top 25 every year. But it's going to be tough for him to bypass both Haley and Doleman, and it's also a stretch to think the HOF committee will elect all 3 of these guys.

Unfortunately playing like a wild man and screaming a lot does not particularly help him get past those guys. Haley made the top 15 last year, Greene did not. So at the very leaset, he seems to be behind Haley in the DPR HOF line.

RonBurgundy

Art Modell can DIAF. Just sayin'.

jeffcbay

<< <i>Art Modell can DIAF. Just sayin'. >>



+1

fiveniner

Sanders,Roaf,Ricter,Hanberger,Faulk.

PowderedH2O

Deion Sanders did not tackle much. He didn't need to tackle much. Quarterbacks threw to the other side of the field when Deion would cover their man. And the ultimate sign of respect is that QB's would avoid him when he was covering Hall of Fame receivers. He didn't lock down the Hank Basketts and Bernard Berrians. He was covering Jerry Rice, Michael Irvin, Cris Carter, Herman Moore, etc... I don't believe the HOF is a popularity contest. If so, Charles Haley and Art Modell have no chance to ever be elected. Most people that played with Haley or dealt with him in the media considered him to be quite possibly the biggest piece of garbage in sports. But he could play football. Deion Sanders was FAMOUS (this is the Hall of Fame), a great player, and was a winner. First ballot without a doubt.

itzagoner

ok, i'm convinced. Deion kicked a$$

@ Burgundy

larryallen73

Couple more years until Larry will be on the list!

bking

<< <i>I think both Vets Richter and Hanburger, Deion Sanders, Faulk, Martin, Bettis, and Roaf. I think full 7. All three running backs are first ballot especially Martin and Bettis. >>



Martin????? Are you serious???

byronscott4ever

I'm a homer for Cris Carter. If that guy had turned his life around earlier and consistently had a solid QB throwing to him, his stats could have been even greater (1994 and 1995 were probably his greatest years, with Moon starting all but one game). Look at the different starting QBs he had throughout his MN career:

1990 Rich Gannon (12) / Wade Wilson (4)
1991 Rich Gannon (11) / Wade Wilson (5)
1992 Rich Gannon (12) / Sean Salisbury (4)
1993 Jim McMahon (12) / Sean Salisbury (4)
1994 Warren Moon (15) / Sean Salisbury (1)
1995 Warren Moon (16)
1996 Warren Moon (8) / Brad Johnson (8)
1997 Brad Johnson (13) / Randall Cunningham (3)
1998 Randall Cunningham (14) / Brad Johnson (2)
1999 Jeff George (10) / Randall Cunningham (6)
2000 Daunte Culpepper (16)
2001 Daunte Culpepper (11) / Todd Bouman (3) / Spergon Wynn (2)

Blacklabelsociety

<< <i>

<< <i>Kevin Green was a beast. I like his chances. >>



Greene was essentially a DPR (designated pass rusher), which means he is in direct competition with Charles Haley and Chris Doleman who player similar games. Haley and Doleman had slightly more accomplished and accredited careers. Greene certainly is in the conversation, as he continues to make the top 25 every year. But it's going to be tough for him to bypass both Haley and Doleman, and it's also a stretch to think the HOF committee will elect all 3 of these guys.

Unfortunately playing like a wild man and screaming a lot does not particularly help him get past those guys. Haley made the top 15 last year, Greene did not. So at the very leaset, he seems to be behind Haley in the DPR HOF line. >>



Only Bruce smith and reggie white have more sacks than Kevin Greene.

firstbase23

I really hope DeBartolo and Craig make it, but I won't hold my breath.

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Kevin Green was a beast. I like his chances. >>



Greene was essentially a DPR (designated pass rusher), which means he is in direct competition with Charles Haley and Chris Doleman who player similar games. Haley and Doleman had slightly more accomplished and accredited careers. Greene certainly is in the conversation, as he continues to make the top 25 every year. But it's going to be tough for him to bypass both Haley and Doleman, and it's also a stretch to think the HOF committee will elect all 3 of these guys.

Unfortunately playing like a wild man and screaming a lot does not particularly help him get past those guys. Haley made the top 15 last year, Greene did not. So at the very leaset, he seems to be behind Haley in the DPR HOF line. >>



Only Bruce smith and reggie white have more sacks than Kevin Greene. >>



But they both actually played the run too.

Crazylegs

Homer vote here for Hanburger.
# 55 one of the best undersized LB's to ever play.
His forearm shots to Cowboys bring back many fond memories.
Just a great all around linebacker.

drewsef

By not electing Sharpe and Carter over putting Rickey Jackson in only tells me that the selection process is flawed and political. The 80's-early 90's Saints teams with that incredible LB core was fun to watch, but Rickey Jackson was not the best player of the 4, and in my opinion, arguably the 3rd best of the group.

So do tell Jason, no excuses, no ifs or buts, do you feel there have been ZERO punters in the history of the NFL deserving to be a Hall of Famer, and only one current kicker?

And of course there are plenty of pass rushers and LB's getting elected, but there is a lack of appreciation for the defensive tackle and Safety position(do I need to run off the names, I'm sure you already know?) and many at the cornerback spot too.

JasP24

From HOF Voter Peter King:

I think, breaking down the announcement of the Hall of Fame's 26 semifinalists, I see some logjams and some possibilities. Enumerating them, from the point of view of one of the 44 voters (me):

a. Remember the process. These 26 aren't all going to make it in front of the Hall's 44 selectors for election into Canton. Only 15 of the 26 will, along with the two Senior Committee candidates, Les Richter and Chris Hanburger. So 11 will be trimmed from the list of 26 before the committee meets by a secret ballot. Those who could fall by the wayside before the Feb. 5 meeting in Texas: Giants GM George Young, safety Aeneas Williams, owner Art Modell, linebacker Kevin Greene, tackle Willie Roaf ... and maybe bigger names like Terrell Davis and Paul Tagliabue.

b. Sad to see the best special-teamer of all time, Steve Tasker, eliminated in the semifinal cut.

c. Ditto Ron Wolf, a deserving GM and architect.

d. Thrilled to see NFL Films founder Ed Sabol in the mix. Whether he makes the Hall in 2011, Sabol, at least once, deserves to have his case heard by the election committee. Young, Modell, Tagliabue, Terrell Davis ... they've already head their cases heard (some more than once) in the room and been turned down for entry. Sabol never has.

I realize how tough it is to make it. Just think: Only five of the 26 names on the semifinal list, at the most, will make it through the filtering process and be elected in two months. So many of these men are deserving. I think Sabol is one who needs to make it now. Seems to me the longer Sabol waits, the harder it'll be for him to get in. He's not a player, first of all, which makes entry so tough. There's no guarantee future voters, as the selectors get younger and younger, will appreciate the role of NFL Films in making the game so popular.

I thought of Sabol's value while watching the top-100 players series on NFL Network this fall. How would generations -- quite literally-- who follow us be able to know how good Otto Graham, Don Hutson and Sammy Baugh were, and how memorable the '50s Colts and '60s Packers were (not to mention all the great teams and players who followed) without the work of Sabol and the film-gatherers and -makers of NFL Films? Take NFL Films away from the football landscape and we wouldn't have the teaching moments of Vince Lombardi ("a seal here, a seal there'') and the grimy realness of the game.

More than anything, I fear Sabol becoming one of those names who the voters look at every fall and say, "Yeah, he should be in, but we've got to get Deion Sanders and Marshall Faulk in this year, and we've got to address the wide receivers and the backlog of defensive players -- we'll have to put ol' Ed off 'til next year.'' And next year, and next year. That's the problem. Sabol's easy to put off until next year. My question: Why not acknowledge the man, who, more than any single person, is responsible for the game growing at the intergalactic pace that it's grown?

e. At running back, Marshall Faulk looks like the favorite to filter through the deep class -- first-timers Faulk, Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin, along with Roger Craig and Terrell Davis. The problem with looking at two or three making it, even if they're deserving, is that there are too many other strong players and deep position groups. Does Martin deserve it over Cris Carter? Bettis over Shannon Sharpe. Craig over Charles Haley? Those are the kinds of decisions that have to be made once in the room, where the list will be cut from 15 down to 10, and then from 10 to five, before voting yea or nay on the final five for election.

f. The receiver class having only three returnees -- Carter, Tim Brown, Andre Reed -- may sharpen the focus on them instead of diluting the group. My sense is Carter is the leader of the three. But if the group continues to fracture and divide, we may continue to elect none of them.

g. From here, the 44 voters pick their 15 in the next three weeks, and the Hall will tabulate the votes and announce its final 15 -- plus Richter and Hanburger -- in January.

JasP24

<< <i>So do tell Jason, no excuses, no ifs or buts, do you feel there have been ZERO punters in the history of the NFL deserving to be a Hall of Famer, and only one current kicker?

And of course there are plenty of pass rushers and LB's getting elected, but there is a lack of appreciation for the defensive tackle and Safety position(do I need to run off the names, I'm sure you already know?) and many at the cornerback spot too. >>



I'm not a voter, so it's not up to me. But if you want my opinion, no I don't think we have had a punter (or special teams player) worthy of HOF induction. Now with Kickers, I place a slightly higher premium on because they actually score points. I think Stenerud was deserving. I think Morten is deserving. Maybe Gary Anderson too, just based on the numbers and longevity. Of which Ray Guy really doesn't have.

Guard is also under-represented, mostly because like Safety and DT, they are tough to evaluate.

jaderock

I see the final 15 as:
Jerome Bettis
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Richard Dent, DE
Paul Tagliabue, Contributor
Deion Sanders
Tim Brown, WR
Cris Carter, WR
Art Modell, Owner
Dermontti Dawson, C
Lester Hayes
Ed Sabol,
Terrell Davis, RB
Ray Guy, P
Don Coryell, Coach

drewsef

<< <i>

<< <i>So do tell Jason, no excuses, no ifs or buts, do you feel there have been ZERO punters in the history of the NFL deserving to be a Hall of Famer, and only one current kicker?

And of course there are plenty of pass rushers and LB's getting elected, but there is a lack of appreciation for the defensive tackle and Safety position(do I need to run off the names, I'm sure you already know?) and many at the cornerback spot too. >>



I'm not a voter, so it's not up to me. But if you want my opinion, no I don't think we have had a punter (or special teams player) worthy of HOF induction. Now with Kickers, I place a slightly higher premium on because they actually score points. I think Stenerud was deserving. I think Morten is deserving. Maybe Gary Anderson too, just based on the numbers and longevity. Of which Ray Guy really doesn't have.

Guard is also under-represented, mostly because like Safety and DT, they are tough to evaluate. >>



They are only tough for people who don't know what they are watching and need numbers to help them make decisions, but it sounds like that is how the committees make their decisions.

PowderedH2O

What a beautiful argument. However, as a non-voter, I just don't see the need for Sabol. If you want to add him in as an additional 'special' selection, fine. But, the man never blocked, tackled, threw or caught a pass, made a trade, signed a player, or anything. If you want to add Sabol, then have a special section of the HOF for contributors not directly associated with the teams. Then you can have all the Ed Sabols, Brent Musbergers, Curt Gowdys, and Steve Sabols you want in their own little room and we can admire them and celebrate their role in publicizing the NFL. But I do not want to see a deserving, legitimate football stud like Chris Hanburger or Dermonti Dawson sent back through the process so we can give old Ed a pat on the back.

Truthfully, I think we could go seven inductees for at least three years to catch up. This isn't baseball. There are a lot more players in each game. There SHOULD be more HOFers in football than in baseball. My personal opinion is for these seven: Willie Roaf - DOMINANT lineman for many years. Eleven Pro Bowls. There are guys in the HOF that didn't play eleven seasons. Deion Sanders - arguably the greatest cornerback of all-time. This one should be a no-brainer. Marshall Faulk - Good grief, what didn't this man do? Again, a no-brainer. Chris Hanburger - the opposite of Butkus. He didn't make the spectacular plays. He just made the plays, over and over and over and over. Cris Carter - Is there anybody that doesn't think he should be in? Dermonti Dawson - ask longtime Steeler fans who the greatest center is in Steelers history. I'll bet Dawson gets as much support as Webster. Six times Dawson was chosen as the NFL's best center. Think about that. Edward Debartolo, Jr. OK, we enshrined almost every longterm owner there is. Heck, if Bud Adams lives long enough we'll enshrine him too. Does anyone remember the 49ers of the late 1970's? They sucked. Bad. Debartolo went out and hired a fellow named Bill Walsh. He also went about making sure that the best players STAYED in San Francisco and when the 49ers needed something, he went out and got it. Steve Young, Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, and Jerry Rice have all said that he belongs in. You gonna argue with them? And finally, are they REALLY thinking about inducting Art Modell? Seriously? This is the guy that fired Paul Brown. He bought a team in 1961 that was the model of pro football. They were loaded with stars. Within a few years he had run off a succession of coaches, players, and executives. The Browns were just a .500 team during his ownership. If he hadn't been spotted a team full of all-stars, his record would be well under .500. And then to top it off, moved the Browns out of Cleveland, even though the fans were some of the best in football. And we're gonna put a bust of him up in Canton, OHIO? Y'know, Bud Adams is looking better and better as a candidate when I put him next to Modell.... OK, now I'm done.

JasP24

<< <i>
They are only tough for people who don't know what they are watching and need numbers to help them make decisions, but it sounds like that is how the committees make their decisions. >>



BINGO..You just described about 50% of the current voters.

Jason

JasP24

I would be against allowing additional enshrinees.

It's already getting a tad watered down (IMO), and would personally prefer that they go back to ONE senior and FOUR moderns MAX.

I do agree on the contributers. The HOF committee has discussed doing exactly what is described above..Which is creating a separate category for Coaches/Owners/Contributers...Basically all NON-players. Maybe instead of the 2nd Senior candidate (which by the way has NOT been elected quite a few times) and turn that slot into a non-player selection each year. Leave the players to be compared only to other players.

I would go on a limb and give it a 90% probability that at LEAST one owner/coach/contributer goes in this year. Or is at least in the final 5 modern candidates. There is just no way 6 non-players make the top 26 by accident. And it is a shame that it will likley bump the Cris Carter's and Dirt Dawson's of the world. They REALLY need to separate the two in the voting process.

Jason

Blacklabelsociety

<< <i>I see the final 15 as:
Jerome Bettis
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Richard Dent, DE
Paul Tagliabue, Contributor
Deion Sanders
Tim Brown, WR
Cris Carter, WR
Art Modell, Owner
Dermontti Dawson, C
Lester Hayes
Ed Sabol,
Terrell Davis, RB
Ray Guy, P
Don Coryell, Coach >>



Why would Coryell make the list? He didnt win anything.

JasP24

<< <i>Why would Coryell make the list? He didnt win anything. >>



Well, here is why he made the final 15 last year:

DON CORYELL
Head Coach … Washington … 1973-77 St. Louis Cardinals, 1978-1986 San Diego Chargers … 14 seasons, 195 games … Regular season record 111-83-1 … Post season record 3-6 … Overall record 114-89-1 … Took over Cardinals team that hadn’t won title of any kind since 1948 … After 4-9-1 inaugural season took team to playoffs, 10-4 record … “Big Red” won NFC Eastern Divisional title 1974, 1975 … Named consensus NFL Coach of the Year, 1974 … Narrowly missed playoffs in 1976 despite finishing 10-4 … Record of 31-11, 1974-76 marked most successful three-year stretch in franchise’s history … Again inherited a team that hadn’t won title in many years when he took over as coach of Chargers four games into 1978 season … Installed new explosive offense soon labeled “Air Coryell” … Chargers led NFL in passing six straight seasons, amassed more than 24,000 yards from 1978 to 1983 … QB Dan Fouts blossomed to become first player in NFL history to record three straight 4,000-yard seasons … Coryell succeeded in turning Chargers into one of NFL’s elite teams … Captured three AFC Western Division titles (1979-1981) … Named AFC Coach of the Year in 1979 … Born October 17, 1924 in Seattle, Washington.

dfr52

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>Kevin Green was a beast. I like his chances. >>



Greene was essentially a DPR (designated pass rusher), which means he is in direct competition with Charles Haley and Chris Doleman who player similar games. Haley and Doleman had slightly more accomplished and accredited careers. Greene certainly is in the conversation, as he continues to make the top 25 every year. But it's going to be tough for him to bypass both Haley and Doleman, and it's also a stretch to think the HOF committee will elect all 3 of these guys.

Unfortunately playing like a wild man and screaming a lot does not particularly help him get past those guys. Haley made the top 15 last year, Greene did not. So at the very leaset, he seems to be behind Haley in the DPR HOF line. >>



Only Bruce smith and reggie white have more sacks than Kevin Greene. >>



But they both actually played the run too. >>



As did Greene. The only thing he didn't too much of was play pass coverage, but that wasn't his role.

PowderedH2O

I don't see Kevin Greene as a HOFer. But, if I had a choice between Kevin Greene and Fred Dean I'd take Kevin Greene any day. And guess who is in the HOF?

dfr52

<< <i>What a beautiful argument. However, as a non-voter, I just don't see the need for Sabol. If you want to add him in as an additional 'special' selection, fine. But, the man never blocked, tackled, threw or caught a pass, made a trade, signed a player, or anything. If you want to add Sabol, then have a special section of the HOF for contributors not directly associated with the teams. Then you can have all the Ed Sabols, Brent Musbergers, Curt Gowdys, and Steve Sabols you want in their own little room and we can admire them and celebrate their role in publicizing the NFL. But I do not want to see a deserving, legitimate football stud like Chris Hanburger or Dermonti Dawson sent back through the process so we can give old Ed a pat on the back.

Truthfully, I think we could go seven inductees for at least three years to catch up. This isn't baseball. There are a lot more players in each game. There SHOULD be more HOFers in football than in baseball. My personal opinion is for these seven: Willie Roaf - DOMINANT lineman for many years. Eleven Pro Bowls. There are guys in the HOF that didn't play eleven seasons. Deion Sanders - arguably the greatest cornerback of all-time. This one should be a no-brainer. Marshall Faulk - Good grief, what didn't this man do? Again, a no-brainer. Chris Hanburger - the opposite of Butkus. He didn't make the spectacular plays. He just made the plays, over and over and over and over. Cris Carter - Is there anybody that doesn't think he should be in? Dermonti Dawson - ask longtime Steeler fans who the greatest center is in Steelers history. I'll bet Dawson gets as much support as Webster. Six times Dawson was chosen as the NFL's best center. Think about that. Edward Debartolo, Jr. OK, we enshrined almost every longterm owner there is. Heck, if Bud Adams lives long enough we'll enshrine him too. Does anyone remember the 49ers of the late 1970's? They sucked. Bad. Debartolo went out and hired a fellow named Bill Walsh. He also went about making sure that the best players STAYED in San Francisco and when the 49ers needed something, he went out and got it. Steve Young, Joe Montana, Ronnie Lott, and Jerry Rice have all said that he belongs in. You gonna argue with them? And finally, are they REALLY thinking about inducting Art Modell? Seriously? This is the guy that fired Paul Brown. He bought a team in 1961 that was the model of pro football. They were loaded with stars. Within a few years he had run off a succession of coaches, players, and executives. The Browns were just a .500 team during his ownership. If he hadn't been spotted a team full of all-stars, his record would be well under .500. And then to top it off, moved the Browns out of Cleveland, even though the fans were some of the best in football. And we're gonna put a bust of him up in Canton, OHIO? Y'know, Bud Adams is looking better and better as a candidate when I put him next to Modell.... OK, now I'm done. >>



Modell only got rid of Coach Brown after he tried to assume more control of the Browns than he actually had. Trading Mitchell w/out speaking to Modell was pretty much the end for Brown. I'm from the Cleveland area and Modell has been unfairly vilified for his decisions over the years. Modell was having financial issues and was very close to losing the Browns. He went to Mayor White to seek help in building a new stadium to generate revenue and White refused. White is the one who had the opportunity to keep the Browns in Cleveland but didn't want to back Modell.

Sportsamerica

Top 10

Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
Cris Carter, WR – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Dermontti Dawson, C – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-1997 San Francisco 49ers
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Marshall Faulk, RB – 1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams
Ray Guy, P – 1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Lester Hayes, CB – 1977-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
Deion Sanders, CB/KR/PR – 1989-1993 Atlanta Falcons, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1995-99 Dallas Cowboys, 2000 Washington Redskins, 2004-05 Baltimore Ravens

My Top 5
Jerome Bettis, RB – 1993-95 Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams, 1996-2005 Pittsburgh Steelers
-- One of the best BIG Backs every
Edward DeBartolo, Jr., Owner – 1979-1997 San Francisco 49ers
-- Look what he did as an owner, turned the 49ers from nobody to a somebody
Richard Dent, DE – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
-- Remade the DE position
Marshall Faulk, RB – 1994-98 Indianapolis Colts, 1999-2005 St. Louis Rams
-- Even though I don't think of him as much as a Running back, he made the position more of what it is today, a pass catching position
Willie Roaf, T – 1993-2001 New Orleans Saints, 2002-05 Kansas City Chiefs
--- Nobody got by this guy (I think the only thing which will hurt him is that he played in week divisions which didn't have great pass rushers)

JasP24

<< <i>
But they both actually played the run too.

As did Greene. The only thing he didn't too much of was play pass coverage, but that wasn't his role. >>



Greene played the run.......well? Now that's funny...lolol

Let's look just at the stats and compare the 4 pass rushing semi-finalists:
Chris Doleman 3.94 tackles per game
Richard Dent 3.31 tackles per game
Kevin Greene 2.93 tackles per game
Charles Haley 2.87 tackles per game

Now lets look at Bruce Smith and Reggie White in the same comparison(even though both played Hand on the ground D-line and not roaming LB):
Bruce Smith 3.86 tackles per game
Reggie White 4.52 tackles per game

Also keep in mind these numbers are for their career...Typically 3.0 tackles per game for a pass rusher/D-lineman is par for the course. Below 3.0, guy was a liability...And the more over 3.0/par you get, the better that player was vs. the run. Reggie at 4.52 is RIDICULOUS, and why he is one of if not THE greatest DE in the history of the NFL.

The voters have shown (Fred Dean being the exception) that sacks alone and pass rush alone is not enough to equate to a HOF player.

Jason

rexvos

As a lifelong Saints fan and as a La Tech alum who knows Willie. I would love it if he could make it on his first ballot.

dfr52

<< <i>

<< <i>
But they both actually played the run too.

As did Greene. The only thing he didn't too much of was play pass coverage, but that wasn't his role. >>



Greene played the run.......well? Now that's funny...lolol

Let's look just at the stats and compare the 4 pass rushing semi-finalists:
Chris Doleman 3.94 tackles per game
Richard Dent 3.31 tackles per game
Kevin Greene 2.93 tackles per game
Charles Haley 2.87 tackles per game

Now lets look at Bruce Smith and Reggie White in the same comparison(even though both played Hand on the ground D-line and not roaming LB):
Bruce Smith 3.86 tackles per game
Reggie White 4.52 tackles per game

Also keep in mind these numbers are for their career...Typically 3.0 tackles per game for a pass rusher/D-lineman is par for the course. Below 3.0, guy was a liability...And the more over 3.0/par you get, the better that player was vs. the run. Reggie at 4.52 is RIDICULOUS, and why he is one of if not THE greatest DE in the history of the NFL.

The voters have shown (Fred Dean being the exception) that sacks alone and pass rush alone is not enough to equate to a HOF player.

Jason >>



I understand the thinking but tackles are the most inaccurate stat that the NFL keeps record of.

3-4 OLB'ers do not usually have alot of opportunities to make tackles as their responsibility is to set the edge and force things back inside. I do not recall Greene ever being weak against the run to the point where teams would try to attack him.

PowderedH2O

According to Deacon Jones, Deacon Jones is the greatest defensive lineman in the history of the NFL.

JasP24

<< <i>

I understand the thinking but tackles are the most inaccurate stat that the NFL keeps record of.

3-4 OLB'ers do not usually have alot of opportunities to make tackles as their responsibility is to set the edge and force things back inside. I do not recall Greene ever being weak against the run to the point where teams would try to attack him. >>



Watch any of his game film outside of his short stint with the Steelers...Specifically his 49er and Carolina years...They actually started to drop him into coverage because of his weakness in pursuit. '

Look, I'm not a Greene detractor. I think he has a fine case for the HOF. But in no way is he more deserving than Richard Dent. So until Dent gets in, Greene shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility. I'm not as big on Charles Haley, but obviosuly Haley is also ahead of him on the HOF pass rush depth chart, as Haley made the top 15 last year and Greene did not.

I think he could eventually get in....But I'd put him in the same category as a Lester Hayes level player...REALLLY close, but will need all the chips to fall his way one year in order to get in. I wouldn;t be shocked to see him follow in say Chris Hanburger's footsteps either.

Jason

Blacklabelsociety

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>
But they both actually played the run too.

As did Greene. The only thing he didn't too much of was play pass coverage, but that wasn't his role. >>



Greene played the run.......well? Now that's funny...lolol

Let's look just at the stats and compare the 4 pass rushing semi-finalists:
Chris Doleman 3.94 tackles per game
Richard Dent 3.31 tackles per game
Kevin Greene 2.93 tackles per game
Charles Haley 2.87 tackles per game

Now lets look at Bruce Smith and Reggie White in the same comparison(even though both played Hand on the ground D-line and not roaming LB):
Bruce Smith 3.86 tackles per game
Reggie White 4.52 tackles per game

Also keep in mind these numbers are for their career...Typically 3.0 tackles per game for a pass rusher/D-lineman is par for the course. Below 3.0, guy was a liability...And the more over 3.0/par you get, the better that player was vs. the run. Reggie at 4.52 is RIDICULOUS, and why he is one of if not THE greatest DE in the history of the NFL.

The voters have shown (Fred Dean being the exception) that sacks alone and pass rush alone is not enough to equate to a HOF player.

Jason >>



I understand the thinking but tackles are the most inaccurate stat that the NFL keeps record of.

[/q

Agreed, he averaged almost 3 tackles and made up the rest with a high amount of sacks. Even toward the end of his career with carolina he led the league. He was also a very popular player among the fans. When the steelers released him after he helped lead them to the super bowl, their front office got alot of hate mail.

JasP24

<< <i>

Agreed, he averaged almost 3 tackles and made up the rest with a high amount of sacks. Even toward the end of his career with carolina he led the league. He was also a very popular player among the fans. When the steelers released him after he helped lead them to the super bowl, their front office got alot of hate mail. >>



OK. Well, I guess I must be off on Greene (along with the rest of the HOF voters). He keeps making the top 25, but not the top 15. I don't see an injustice, but obviously if he was a fan favorite it was 100% due to his play on the field and not his wildman personality...lol...Of course the play at LB dropped VERY dramatically when he left too...Even today, the Steelers can never seem to find LBs who can rush the passer. (please note the sarcasm here).

Also, when a player gets a SACK, he is also credited with a tackle on the play. So subtract his sack totals from his tackle totals and then you'll have his tackles vs. the run. Which then ends up around 2 per game..Which is horrendous for a LB.

To each his own, address your hate mail to the voters, maybe they will bypass a more deserving Richard Dent again for another 3-4 edge blitzer(Fred Dean, Andre Tippett, Rickey Jackson, Derrick Thomas..All recent electees and ALL elected OVER Kevin Greene)

Jason

dfr52

<< <i>

<< <i>

I understand the thinking but tackles are the most inaccurate stat that the NFL keeps record of.

3-4 OLB'ers do not usually have alot of opportunities to make tackles as their responsibility is to set the edge and force things back inside. I do not recall Greene ever being weak against the run to the point where teams would try to attack him. >>



Watch any of his game film outside of his short stint with the Steelers...Specifically his 49er and Carolina years...They actually started to drop him into coverage because of his weakness in pursuit. '

Look, I'm not a Greene detractor. I think he has a fine case for the HOF. But in no way is he more deserving than Richard Dent. So until Dent gets in, Greene shouldn't even be mentioned as a possibility. I'm not as big on Charles Haley, but obviosuly Haley is also ahead of him on the HOF pass rush depth chart, as Haley made the top 15 last year and Greene did not.

I think he could eventually get in....But I'd put him in the same category as a Lester Hayes level player...REALLLY close, but will need all the chips to fall his way one year in order to get in. I wouldn;t be shocked to see him follow in say Chris Hanburger's footsteps either.

Jason >>



I didn't see much of Greene after he left the Steelers since Panthers and 49'ers games aren't usually carried in my area. I'm a little confused, so they stopped rushing Greene (leaving to play coverage) so he could have a better chance of catching runners from the backside in pursuit? While OLB'ers can chase things down from behind I would place more emphasis on their ability to clog the run on their side of the offense. Greene was always pretty good at the point of attack and could stretch plays, collapse running lanes, or shed blockers.

His sack totals per year were still very impressive after he left the Steelers: 96-14.5, 97-10.5, 98-15.0, 99-12.0.

Blacklabelsociety

<< <i>

To each his own, address your hate mail to the voters, maybe they will bypass a more deserving Richard Dent again for another 3-4 edge blitzer(Fred Dean, Andre Tippett, Rickey Jackson, Derrick Thomas..All recent electees and ALL elected OVER Kevin Greene)

Jason >>



Well we all know how pathetic the voting process is for these HOF's. For the most part they are a joke..