No excuses for Clayshooter22...

hhmag70

It has been brought up before by Samspop about a group sub that Mike (clayshooter22) put together in June/July of this year. When he posted the question about if it was time to worry or not there were some people who thought giving the benefit of the doubt that something important may have come up in his life and it may be premature to call the guy out. Well here is my timeline of events in the group sub and it basically shows that there is no excuse at this point other than Mike (clayshooter22) is basically a thief.

Date Posted: Jun/11/2010 12:34 PM
Cards received. Well packaged. I'll open this weekend. Yours is first to arrive. I expect I'll get a couple more over the next two weeks and then will refund if there are any reduced fees. Can you send me a phone number in case I have questions? Thanks, Mike


Date Posted: Oct/05/2010 11:48 PM
Poppage...

My Puckett stuff got killed

Shipped today from PSA. I'll let ya know when rec'd.

Cert Number Spec No. Description Grade Status
17387479 A334850210 1985 MINNESOTA TWINS POSTCARDS KIRBY PUCKETT 7 Cert Printed
17387480 K165870080 1987 U.S. FORESTRY SERVICE SMOKEY BEAR'S TEAM 8 KIRBY PUCKETT 5 Cert Printed
17387481 I685000015 1998 TOPPS SUPER CHROME 30 MARK McGWIRE REFRACTOR 7 Cert Printed
17387482 H946000004 1998 FINEST JUMBOS 1 MARK McGWIRE 10 Cert Printed
17387483 1438000015 1997 BOWMAN'S BEST JUMBOS 45 MARK McGWIRE ATOMIC REFRACTOR 10 Cert Printed
17387484 1277000004 1998 TOPPS GALLERY GALLERY OF HEROES GH7 MARK McGWIRE JUMBO 9 Cert Printed
17387485 A662002410 1964-DATE HALL OF FAME YELLOW PLAQUE POSTCARD HOYT WILHELM 10 Cert Printed
17387486 G988000009 1996 PRO STAMPS PERFORATED MINNESOTA TWINS TEAM SET 8 Cert Printed
17387487 6613000015 1989 TOPPS/LJN BASEBALL TALK 46 KIRBY PUCKETT 8 Cert Printed
17387488 6195000001 1993 DIAMOND MARKS JOHN SMOLTZ 7 Cert Printed

Date Posted: Oct/14/2010 1:45 PM
Should be delivered any day now. Shipped late last week, as I recall. I'll forward tracking once shipped.

His eBay user ID was posting positive feedback for Kirby Puckett cards on 11/3 (from deer camp based on his following email).

(This was an email received 11/8)
Sorry, been at deer camp this past week...not even cell reception. I did get your text. I picked up cards on Friday as I went out of town. I boxed today. Will be in mail Tuesday. Bad timing on the pick up at the PO. Mike


Now today is the 20th and no cards have been received, no tracking info was forwarded, no attempts at contact have been returned.

His claims have been PSA mailed on 10/5 and were not received until 10/28. He is shipping on 11/9 and nothing as of 11/20.

I am not looking for this thread to go all crazy with his personal info, we already have what was needed. But there is no way anyone can be serious with any excuses for him based on these facts. If he resurfaces in the future I hope this will be in everyone's head before they choose to put any trust in him.

otwcards

Hope it works out well for everyone involved.

You are correct, there are no excuses. NONE! If something drastic happened in his personal life, he had more than ample time to have taken care of this in advance. Obviously deer camp suggests there wasn't anything too pressing at that time.

Just remember, don't give your trust away. Make people earn it. Saving a few dollars or a little inconvenience in the short may seem all well and good, but there is risk involved. Most board members have done great things with group subs and group purchases. Those members have earned their stripes (regardless of others with personal vendettas). Keep those folks in mind if you're considering such actions. Whether you like them or not, they have demonstrated that they can be trusted.

Again, hoping that clayshooter comes through for everyone. It is better for him to be late and offer apologies than to hide and make excuses. I'm sure all people waiting on their cards would gladly take them late with an apology...

grote15

Deadbeats are known to employ stalling tactics...my guess is that this isn't the first time he's ripped someone off. What a disgrace.

swartz1

absolutely correct...

No excuse...

MULLINS5

No excuse.

Again, sorry this happened.

Garabaldi

Bottomline, it is dirty pool.

eyebone

Just remember, don't give your trust away. Make people earn it. Saving a few dollars or a little inconvenience in the short may seem all well and good, but there is risk involved. Most board members have done great things with group subs and group purchases. Those members have earned their stripes (regardless of others with personal vendettas). Keep those folks in mind if you're considering such actions. Whether you like them or not, they have demonstrated that they can be trusted.

Again, hoping that clayshooter comes through for everyone. It is better for him to be late and offer apologies than to hide and make excuses. I'm sure all people waiting on their cards would gladly take them late with an apology... >>




Two of the more intelligent things posted here in a while.

eyebone

nightcrawler

My gut feeling tells me clayshooter will come through.


Here's to hoping the best for everyone involved.

Toro

It just doesn't seem like it's a priority to him.

Boopotts

<< <i>Just remember, don't give your trust away. Make people earn it. Saving a few dollars or a little inconvenience in the short may seem all well and good, but there is risk involved. Most board members have done great things with group subs and group purchases. Those members have earned their stripes (regardless of others with personal vendettas). Keep those folks in mind if you're considering such actions. Whether you like them or not, they have demonstrated that they can be trusted.

Again, hoping that clayshooter comes through for everyone. It is better for him to be late and offer apologies than to hide and make excuses. I'm sure all people waiting on their cards would gladly take them late with an apology... >>




Two of the more intelligent things posted here in a while.

eyebone >>



By the way, Dave, I'm stealing the Plante and the Topps checkist you sent me and taking the proceeds from the sale to run off and join the circus. Sorry if this inconveniences you, but that's just how I roll.

bobbyw8469

...and I will take the proceeds from the 1991 Score set break and fly to the Bahamas.....

samspop

<< <i>Again, hoping that clayshooter comes through for everyone. It is better for him to be late and offer apologies than to hide and make excuses. I'm sure all people waiting on their cards would gladly take them late with an apology... >>



I could care less about the apology at this point, but would love to have my cards. If a package showed up on my doorstep that contained the 5 cards that, for lack of a better word, clayshooter22 STOLE from me, then I would gladly and quickly post the fact that he did come through. However, at this point, he is just a THIEF, and a lowly one at that.

twiley

larryallen73

It's criminal. Someone, smarter than me, should look into this. A lot of times when crimes involve the mail, even small dollar amounts, become federal interstate stuff. Anybody know the details?

storm888

<< <i>It's criminal. Someone, smarter than me, should look into this. A lot of times when crimes involve the mail, even small dollar amounts, become federal interstate stuff. Anybody know the details? >>




/////////////////////////////


There is no criminal case here; yet.

To the loss victims, it seems like there should be, but
there is not.

It is a civil matter. (There is no point in explaining exactly why
that is still so; no need to enable any more amateur consters.)

................................................

The thing that still perplexes me: Why were there only TWO
folks who got burned?

Maybe there were more and we just never heard from them.

purduepete

I'm surprised that he hasn't come out to defend himself yet- I think his silence speaks volumes...

KatsCards

<< <i>I'm surprised that he hasn't come out to defend himself yet- I think his silence speaks volumes... >>



I'm not surprised. And before this turns into a derailed thread and a flame war against me, look at the turns the other threads took. Every piece of his personal information was up here in a thread. Yes, that was a nice touch in trying to scare someone straight, but it could easily have been seen by clayshooter as antagonistic and threatening. He could have easily said f' it and decided to pull a screw job. I don't know the guy nor do I condone his lack of communication and shafting members here, but the dog pile mentality here has resulted in very very few deals that went south being turned around. People that wanted to help samspop and hhmag70 by gathering that info should have pm'ed it to them, not post it on a message board. Then it would've been samspops and hhmag70s decision as to what to post/update about.

Just my two cents...

DavidPuddy

RipublicaninMass

Maybe he went hunting with Cheney....just a thought

5714Ks

hope you get your cards back

stevek

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm surprised that he hasn't come out to defend himself yet- I think his silence speaks volumes... >>



I'm not surprised. And before this turns into a derailed thread and a flame war against me, look at the turns the other threads took. Every piece of his personal information was up here in a thread. Yes, that was a nice touch in trying to scare someone straight, but it could easily have been seen by clayshooter as antagonistic and threatening. He could have easily said f' it and decided to pull a screw job. I don't know the guy nor do I condone his lack of communication and shafting members here, but the dog pile mentality here has resulted in very very few deals that went south being turned around. People that wanted to help samspop and hhmag70 by gathering that info should have pm'ed it to them, not post it on a message board. Then it would've been samspops and hhmag70s decision as to what to post/update about.

Just my two cents... >>



The "personal information" is needed in case he is using other board names or ebay names...quite easy to have different names on the internet...a lot tougher to have different physical addresses.

RonBurgundy

Someone has to have his actual name and address, correct? Post it so the information can be provided to the local authorities. At this point, I would contact the local police, prosecutor, and a civil attorney in his area. If you need help, let me know and I can activate my attorney network.

itzagoner

<< <i>If you need help, let me know and I can activate my attorney network. >>



activate? do you press a button or just use telepathy? do you guys wear capes? please post pics.

RonBurgundy

We have a red phone network.

EagleEyeKid

bking

<< <i>

<< <i>

<< <i>I'm surprised that he hasn't come out to defend himself yet- I think his silence speaks volumes... >>



I'm not surprised. And before this turns into a derailed thread and a flame war against me, look at the turns the other threads took. Every piece of his personal information was up here in a thread. Yes, that was a nice touch in trying to scare someone straight, but it could easily have been seen by clayshooter as antagonistic and threatening. He could have easily said f' it and decided to pull a screw job. I don't know the guy nor do I condone his lack of communication and shafting members here, but the dog pile mentality here has resulted in very very few deals that went south being turned around. People that wanted to help samspop and hhmag70 by gathering that info should have pm'ed it to them, not post it on a message board. Then it would've been samspops and hhmag70s decision as to what to post/update about.

Just my two cents... >>



The "personal information" is needed in case he is using other board names or ebay names...quite easy to have different names on the internet...a lot tougher to have different physical addresses. >>



I agree about the need to cross-check info, but I do have to agree with the earlier poster - the mob with torches at the ready may well drive him further away from doig the right thing. Let's face it - he isn't going to retire off the proceeds from this, and presumable he intends to remain in the hobby, so what's his motivation for laying low? It could very well be a fear of coming forward at this point.

hammered

Really sorry Hhmag and Samspop may be getting screwed here
They are obviously well within their rights at this point to take whatever legal action needs to be taken
I was originally opposed to publishing the guy's personal info, but I think at that point we were willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, not knowing if there was a personal emergency or valid reason for delay.
The longer this drags on, and if it becomes apparent that he has ripped you off, I think he does give up his right to remain private

Mickey71

Is he dead? Why did he only rip off 1 or 2 people? And we're not talking about alot of money. You never know.

DeutscherGeist

Clayshooter does not have to come on board and explain himself, all he has to do is send the items out to their rightful owners and its finished. He does not have to show his face on here fearing he will get dog piled.

You think he is intimidated by us? So what!!? All he has to do is SEND THE ITEMS and not look at any of us. Its really easy. It is irrelevant if he is scared of us.

We need the force of the dog pile to send a message that we will excommunicate anyone that steals--high dollar or low dollar. People steal little money and big money, forget their motivations. You think Gary made out big off of everyone here so he can live the rest of his life work free in South America. No way. Even he did not get away with that much that it was worth damaging his reputation over on this board and beyond.

People will damage their reputation for silly things, let's not praise our species too much now.

With ClayShooter, I think its time to call the local police, because maybe something is wrong, it is a possibility. The worst the police can say is NO.

MULLINS5

My guess is that he is lurking with another ID or he is at least reading these threads about him.

Not returning these cards is quite possibly the dumbest thing I ever heard of.

GDM67

If Scott's angry with you, you deserve it. It's about that simple.

mbothner

<< <i>At this point, I would contact the local police, prosecutor, and a civil attorney in his area. >>



This actually worked for me. Someone had some items of mine from my other hobby. After a few months of lies I called the police in his hometown. They sent someone out to his house. My items were then over-nighted to me.

samspop

<< <i>Is he dead? Why did he only rip off 1 or 2 people? And we're not talking about alot of money. You never know. >>



Mickey. I don't think that is the case. He responded to an email from Scott on or about November 3rd. A week or so after I posted the first message about this. Every note and every promise of shipment from Clayshooter22 to Scott or I has been a lie.

Did something happen to him? Doubtful.

BellagioPokerKing

<< <i>Just remember, don't give your trust away. Make people earn it. Saving a few dollars or a little inconvenience in the short may seem all well and good, but there is risk involved. Most board members have done great things with group subs and group purchases. Those members have earned their stripes (regardless of others with personal vendettas). Keep those folks in mind if you're considering such actions. Whether you like them or not, they have demonstrated that they can be trusted.

Again, hoping that clayshooter comes through for everyone. It is better for him to be late and offer apologies than to hide and make excuses. I'm sure all people waiting on their cards would gladly take them late with an apology... >>




Two of the more intelligent things posted here in a while.

eyebone >>



No surprise, since Scott is one of the most intelligent people on this site.

DeutscherGeist

If he had written an email as recently as Nov 3, then he must be OK.

Not returning the items is really a bad decision on his part. The card collecting community is small, so its not like he can hide somewhere else. We are all members of at least one other board, so keep an eye on him and let no one do business with him again.

RonBurgundy

Out him now. Report him to the police.