Tom Brady: evaluating his "greatness"
weinhold
Posts: 503
in Sports Talk
In evaluating the body of work in Tom Brady's terrific career - where do you think he ranks among All-Time Quarterbacks?
Last night's stellar performance was just a reminder about how good he is, how clutch he is, and his empassioned language on the sidelines shows just how much he cares.
The important thing to remember is just how many interchangable parts (teammates) Brady has done this with - and he's often done it with unspectacular interchangeable parts. To already win three Super Bowl titles and do it in an era of heavy player movement is just remarkable, and now the Patriots are 7-2 in 2010.
I'm not a Patriots fan so there's no partisan-driven agenda here (I'm an Eagles fan). Many have a baseless stigma against the Patriots and a particular dislike for Brady. One big reason is simply because people are jealous. Success breeds jealousy like nothing else. Brady is probably better-looking than us, more successful than us, and the Patriots probably win more than (insert your team's name here). When one acknowledges that, it's easier to impartially evaluate his stunning body of work - one that he's still building on.
For what it's worth, the NFL Network's list of the Top 100 Players already ranks Brady 21st overall, and 7th among quarterbacks. This actually has him ranked lower than Peyton Manning.
Last night's stellar performance was just a reminder about how good he is, how clutch he is, and his empassioned language on the sidelines shows just how much he cares.
The important thing to remember is just how many interchangable parts (teammates) Brady has done this with - and he's often done it with unspectacular interchangeable parts. To already win three Super Bowl titles and do it in an era of heavy player movement is just remarkable, and now the Patriots are 7-2 in 2010.
I'm not a Patriots fan so there's no partisan-driven agenda here (I'm an Eagles fan). Many have a baseless stigma against the Patriots and a particular dislike for Brady. One big reason is simply because people are jealous. Success breeds jealousy like nothing else. Brady is probably better-looking than us, more successful than us, and the Patriots probably win more than (insert your team's name here). When one acknowledges that, it's easier to impartially evaluate his stunning body of work - one that he's still building on.
For what it's worth, the NFL Network's list of the Top 100 Players already ranks Brady 21st overall, and 7th among quarterbacks. This actually has him ranked lower than Peyton Manning.
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Gisele doesn't seem to mind...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I dig the hairdo, dig it alot (like I said earlier KW). Ill bet there will be alot of long hairdo's coming out of the woodwork to mimick it here pretty quick. I'd grow my hair out like it if I werent so old.....
<< <i>Brady's pretty damned good. He ranks probably right up there in the Top 5 to have ever played. The only thing I got against him is that stupid tuck play and that silly looking hair of his. He looks like a girl. As for Peyton ranking ahead of him, that's a tough call either way but I'm not sure why with 7 QBs ranked ahead of Brady, you felt the need to call out Peyton of all people as being sort of an insult based on your insinuation. >>
Tough to count the Tuck Rule against Brady.
At 3-1 in the Super Bowl he is 25% less good than Joe Montana who is 4-0 in the Super Bowl.
At least that is one way to analyze things if your only measuring stick is Championship rings.
<< <i> Ill bet there will be alot of long hairdo's coming out of the woodwork to mimick it here pretty quick. >>
Come on man, you know I am the originator
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<< <i>Brady's pretty damned good. He ranks probably right up there in the Top 5 to have ever played. The only thing I got against him is that stupid tuck play and that silly looking hair of his. He looks like a girl. As for Peyton ranking ahead of him, that's a tough call either way but I'm not sure why with 7 QBs ranked ahead of Brady, you felt the need to call out Peyton of all people as being sort of an insult based on your insinuation. >>
Tough to count the Tuck Rule against Brady. >>
I'm certainly not holding Brady responsible. I'm just a very bitter Raiders' fan. >>
I am not a Patriots fan and to this day that play shocks me.
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<< <i>when both manning and brady's careers end brady will be ahead of him in nearly every category except consecutive games played >>
How do you figure this? Manning is substantially ahead of Brady in just about every stat including QB rating. Brady is only a little over one year younger? Currently, Manning has about 20,000 more career yards and 140 more TDs. Unless Manning retires early, which I highly, I can't possibly fathom how that would be. Certainly the one area, which is very important, that Brady has Manning on is the rings. >>
I found that statement to be strange also. Manning might own all the passing stats by the time he retires.
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<< <i>when both manning and brady's careers end brady will be ahead of him in nearly every category except consecutive games played >>
How do you figure this? Manning is substantially ahead of Brady in just about every stat including QB rating. Brady is only a little over one year younger? Currently, Manning has about 20,000 more career yards and 140 more TDs. Unless Manning retires early, which I highly, I can't possibly fathom how that would be. Certainly the one area, which is very important, that Brady has Manning on is the rings. >>
manning started in 1998 brady started in 2000 in one game and 2001 was his full season plus he was out in 2008 of course he is going to have more yards in his career.
For me, the #1 guy is Steve Young. Yeah, he only has the one ring but he could do it all. Most accurate QB ever, a rocket arm, and he could run.
For #2, I'd probably put Brady. Manning has the #s but he's also had much better players around him. When Brady had Moss/Welker/etc, he threw 50+ TDs. In big games, Brady seems to perform better than Manning.
For #3, I'd go with Manning. The dude is awesome, no question about it.
#4, I'd go with Kurt Warner. Huge numbers, incredible arm, super-accurate, and the best three passing games in the Super Bowl of all-time. If Santonio Holmes drops that final pass, everybody would be talking about Warner in different terms - and that's not fair to him.
#5, I'll go with Joe Montana. Hard to argue with the rings or the feeling that you were NEVER out of a game when he was the QB. But the guys above him all had better physical tools.
Tabe
He may have lost three Super Bowls before he finally won two of them to cap his career; however he dragged the Broncos to those three Super Bowls. Without him the Broncos would never had made it to those games. Everytime Elway was on the field in the fourth quarter with Denver behind, you always knew that he could pull out a victory. A prime example is the playoff game with Cleveland.
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<< <i>when both manning and brady's careers end brady will be ahead of him in nearly every category except consecutive games played >>
How do you figure this? Manning is substantially ahead of Brady in just about every stat including QB rating. Brady is only a little over one year younger? Currently, Manning has about 20,000 more career yards and 140 more TDs. Unless Manning retires early, which I highly, I can't possibly fathom how that would be. Certainly the one area, which is very important, that Brady has Manning on is the rings. >>
manning started in 1998 brady started in 2000 in one game and 2001 was his full season plus he was out in 2008 of course he is going to have more yards in his career. >>
Manning still has better stats if you give Brady his average for the 3-4 years.
<< <i>I can't go back and judge QBs from the 50s-70s because I simply wasn't around or old enough to watch them. So I'm judging on 1980s-present.
For me, the #1 guy is Steve Young. Yeah, he only has the one ring but he could do it all. Most accurate QB ever, a rocket arm, and he could run.
For #2, I'd probably put Brady. Manning has the #s but he's also had much better players around him. When Brady had Moss/Welker/etc, he threw 50+ TDs. In big games, Brady seems to perform better than Manning.
For #3, I'd go with Manning. The dude is awesome, no question about it.
#4, I'd go with Kurt Warner. Huge numbers, incredible arm, super-accurate, and the best three passing games in the Super Bowl of all-time. If Santonio Holmes drops that final pass, everybody would be talking about Warner in different terms - and that's not fair to him.
#5, I'll go with Joe Montana. Hard to argue with the rings or the feeling that you were NEVER out of a game when he was the QB. But the guys above him all had better physical tools.
Tabe >>
How can you skip Favre who actually has all the records?
<< <i>How can you skip Favre who actually has all the records? >>
First of all, I didn't skip Favre. I didn't include him.
Waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many interceptions. 6 seasons over 20, including one of 29, and 16 in 9 games this year.
He's 13-11 in playoff games over his career. One of those wins is an OT win where Hasselbeck threw a pick-6 on the first possession. In his lone Super Bowl win, Favre completed barely half his passes (14/27) and, other than a huge bomb to Antonio Freeman, failed to do much in the passing game (Green Bay had just 208 passing yards for the day). Desmond Howard won the MVP on special teams in that game.
Favre's got all the career records, yep. But he's also had multiple seasons where he was below-average - something Brady and Manning do not. Brady's WORST TD/INT ratio season, for example, was 18/12. Favre's? 20/29. Brady's BEST TD/INT season? 50/8. Favre's? 33/7. Brady is 14-4 in the playoffs.
The guys I picked instead of Favre all either: A) Have won multiple Super Bowls (Brady, Montana) or
So, much like pretty much no one considers Cy Young the best pitcher of all-time simply because he's got the most wins, I don't put Favre up there simply because he's got the most yards or TDs. There's been times where Brett is the best QB in all of football. But there's also been times where he's below average - at best. And you simply can't say that about these other guys (except maybe Warner, whose performance has always been directly in line with his health, unlike Favre where he's simply just sucked at times).
So there ya go.
Tabe
It's maddening how some people seem to blame Brady for the infamous "Tuck Rule". LOL. It was referee Walt Coleman whom made the call in that game, and he was only enforcing a recently enacted NFL Rule.
Tom's wife Gisele has reportedly asked / pleaded with him about how he should consider quitting the game as he has little more to prove. Brady was reportedly emphatic in stating that, "This is what I live for!" The emotion he showed in last Sunday's night's game shows that he still has the passion.
The Peyton Manning comparisons are inevitable due to the fact that he began his career around the same time as Brady. I think that one can make a case for Manning being on or above a Brady level. Truth is, Manning is spectacular. Truth is also that Manning has played with considerably more Pro Bowl players on his team during his career than Brady has.
The Patriots-Colts have played each other an unusual amount of times considering that it's an inter-divisional rivalry. I personally don't care for the parity in sports. Parity means everybody is average. I would rather see greatness. Consequently, did anyone look at the schedule yet to see what one of the more interesting games this weekend will be?
Well...it's Tom Brady and the New England Patriots vs. the Indianapolis Colts. No parity there.
<< <i>He's 13-11 in playoff games over his career. One of those wins is an OT win where Hasselbeck threw a pick-6 on the first possession. In his lone Super Bowl win, Favre completed barely half his passes (14/27) and, other than a huge bomb to Antonio Freeman, failed to do much in the passing game (Green Bay had just 208 passing yards for the day). Desmond Howard won the MVP on special teams in that game.
Tabe >>
Of the multiple things askew with your posts/logic, this one sticks out. You point out an opposing QB throwing an interception to lessen one of Favre's playoff wins.
On one hand above, you mention if a guy drops a pass, you would be looking at Warner in different terms, and says it is not fair to him. So you are qualifying Warner with some bias by picking out an instance that hurt his legacy.
That is the problem with juding individuals based on a TEAM accomplishemnt. I've said it hear a million times, none of those QB's(except a rare instance) have a ring if they have a defense that allows points below league average. There are soo many things that need to go right to make a ring occur, and too much of it is out of the control of the QB. Brady had the tuck rule, the defense, and he had a kicker that came through all the time. Give him a Scott Norwood, and HE doesn't have those rings either!
Playing your game, you mention Favre's picks...but if the Packers defense would have actually guarded Plaxico Burres, they win that playoff game. If the Packers defense actually decided to tackle Terrell Davis, they win that Super Bowl. If the Packers defense doesn't let the Eagles complete a 4th and 1,000 they win that playoff game. If the Vikings didn't commit a penalty in the last play before the INT, Favre doesn't throw the INT in the NFC championship game last season. One could go on and on and on.
The great teams give their QB's much greater margin of error. It simply isn't fair the way you guys judge.
Also, in Favre's case, he played so long that he had some bad years in the end. He also had some excellent years in two out of the last four. That is actually remarkable considering a lot of QB's are retired adn no longer capable of holding an NFL job at that age. His last four years are a mixed bag...but he was a starting NFL QB. Compare him to a guy like Aikman who could not do that. Aikman had the save value at age 37 as you or I did.
Let me ask you, would you say that you or I are better NFL QB than Rex Grossman?? Bear with me, and just answer it seriously.
Mickey71
The 1978 Rule changes to promote the passing game and more scoring by putting the defense
at a severe disadvantage. Making the QB's pretty much untouchable and giving recievers all the
room they need to run free is the direct result of unreal numbers many of the modern day QB's have achived.
Its a safe bet that most of todays pampered QB's would have been lucky to even survive the "Dead ball era"
let alone thrive in it. Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, "Mad Dog" Curtis, Chuck Bednirik, "Night Train Lane" "Doomsday" "Steel Curtain"
Pain and an all out beating was inflicted by the legendary defensives to the "Dead ball era" QB's on virtualy every play if possible.
The recievers as well. Hardly the same game.
Nope, They're no Roger Staubach.
Manning? Brady? Come on..... without question the Top Modern day QB is Joe Montana
NO modern day QB even makes my top ten list.
Unitas, Staubach, Baugh, Graham, Starr, Bradshaw, Dawson, Lamonica, Stabler, Namath
I guess I just have a soft spot for the true old school legends who did it the hard way and
forged the path that allowed the NFL to become the most popular sport in the world.
<< <i>All the above mentioned play / Played in the post "Dead ball Era".
The 1978 Rule changes to promote the passing game and more scoring by putting the defense
at a severe disadvantage. Making the QB's pretty much untouchable and giving recievers all the
room they need to run free is the direct result of unreal numbers many of the modern day QB's have achived.
Its a safe bet that most of todays pampered QB's would have been lucky to even survive the "Dead ball era"
let alone thrive in it. Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, "Mad Dog" Curtis, Chuck Bednirik, "Night Train Lane" "Doomsday" "Steel Curtain"
Pain and an all out beating was inflicted by the legendary defensives to the "Dead ball era" QB's on virtualy every play if possible.
The recievers as well. Hardly the same game.
Nope, They're no Roger Staubach.
Manning? Brady? Come on..... without question the Top Modern day QB is Joe Montana
NO modern day QB even makes my top ten list.
Unitas, Staubach, Baugh, Graham, Starr, Bradshaw, Dawson, Lamonica, Stabler, Namath
I guess I just have a soft spot for the true old school legends who did it the hard way and
forged the path that allowed the NFL to become the most popular sport in the world. >>
Hammer meet nail! Great post.
Needs'
1972 Football-9's high#'s
1965 Football-8's
1958 Topps FB-7-8
<< <i>All the above mentioned play / Played in the post "Dead ball Era".
The 1978 Rule changes to promote the passing game and more scoring by putting the defense
at a severe disadvantage. Making the QB's pretty much untouchable and giving recievers all the
room they need to run free is the direct result of unreal numbers many of the modern day QB's have achived.
Its a safe bet that most of todays pampered QB's would have been lucky to even survive the "Dead ball era"
let alone thrive in it. Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, "Mad Dog" Curtis, Chuck Bednirik, "Night Train Lane" "Doomsday" "Steel Curtain"
Pain and an all out beating was inflicted by the legendary defensives to the "Dead ball era" QB's on virtualy every play if possible.
The recievers as well. Hardly the same game.
Nope, They're no Roger Staubach.
Manning? Brady? Come on..... without question the Top Modern day QB is Joe Montana
NO modern day QB even makes my top ten list.
Unitas, Staubach, Baugh, Graham, Starr, Bradshaw, Dawson, Lamonica, Stabler, Namath
I guess I just have a soft spot for the true old school legends who did it the hard way and
forged the path that allowed the NFL to become the most popular sport in the world. >>
Thanks for your post. It comes from a different angle and I like it!
Of course, we can't quite adopt the logic 100% though. Otherwise, if Sammy Baugh or Otto Graham played today then he could never make a list of Top 10 Quarterbacks.
I enjoyed seeing Brady & the Patriots get the best of the Colts yesterday. Patriots - Colts is turning into the greatest rivalry of our generation. It's probably no coincidence that the greatest rivalry is led by the two greatest quarterbacks of this decade. That's because - arguably - there's never been more emphasis on the quarterback position and it's importance to a team than there is now.
<< <i>All the above mentioned play / Played in the post "Dead ball Era".
The 1978 Rule changes to promote the passing game and more scoring by putting the defense
at a severe disadvantage. Making the QB's pretty much untouchable and giving recievers all the
room they need to run free is the direct result of unreal numbers many of the modern day QB's have achived.
Its a safe bet that most of todays pampered QB's would have been lucky to even survive the "Dead ball era"
let alone thrive in it. Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, "Mad Dog" Curtis, Chuck Bednirik, "Night Train Lane" "Doomsday" "Steel Curtain"
Pain and an all out beating was inflicted by the legendary defensives to the "Dead ball era" QB's on virtualy every play if possible.
The recievers as well. Hardly the same game.
Nope, They're no Roger Staubach.
Manning? Brady? Come on..... without question the Top Modern day QB is Joe Montana
NO modern day QB even makes my top ten list.
Unitas, Staubach, Baugh, Graham, Starr, Bradshaw, Dawson, Lamonica, Stabler, Namath
I guess I just have a soft spot for the true old school legends who did it the hard way and
forged the path that allowed the NFL to become the most popular sport in the world. >>
Like Peyton Manning would not thrive in the 1960s... and he isn't a top 10 all time QB. Come on.
Brady also.
Just silly.
I can't be totally sure, but put Daryl Lamonica on the 2010 Indianapolis Colts, and I have a feeling they aren't above .500
HOF SIGNED FOOTBALL RCS
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<< <i>All the above mentioned play / Played in the post "Dead ball Era".
Brady also.
Just silly.
I can't be totally sure, but put Daryl Lamonica on the 2010 Indianapolis Colts, and I have a feeling they aren't above .500 >>
Not has to do with Manning, but Two words....Matt Cassel. 10-5 as the starting QB for New England...4-11 for the Chiefs the following year...hasn't started since.
Jason Garrett, 6-3 whenever he started with Dallas.
The backup QB's for the Steel Curtain...collectively, they posted as good a record as Bradshaw. They also posted as good as numbers too! Thanks to Swann/Stallworth and Co...just like Bradshaw owes the biggest BJ's ever to for getting him all this extra credit.
You guys give waaay to much credit for the QB's for winning the games. Why even bother electing any other non QB in the Hall of Fame then? No doubt they are the most important single position, but the QB itself isn't more important than the defense as whole, probably not even as important as the offensive line as whole either.
I don't think a lot of people realize how good Roger Staubach was...and the fact that he didn't have his first full year until age 29(due to military service interrupting him)...and yet he STILL managed to rank as the best QB in the league four different times.
<< <i>All the above mentioned play / Played in the post "Dead ball Era".
The 1978 Rule changes to promote the passing game and more scoring by putting the defense
at a severe disadvantage. Making the QB's pretty much untouchable and giving recievers all the
room they need to run free is the direct result of unreal numbers many of the modern day QB's have achived.
Its a safe bet that most of todays pampered QB's would have been lucky to even survive the "Dead ball era"
let alone thrive in it. Deacon Jones, Dick Butkus, "Mad Dog" Curtis, Chuck Bednirik, "Night Train Lane" "Doomsday" "Steel Curtain" >>
This "logic" makes no sense. Truly great players - which Tom Brady & Peyton Manning unquestionably are - having been raised in that era, would have succeeded in that era. Because that's the game they would have known.
On the flip side, using your logic, a lot of old time players wouldn't have succeeded in the modern NFL. They'd be too small, too slow, and unable to use the cheap shot tactics so frequently employed back then.
Tabe
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The backup QB's for the Steel Curtain...collectively, they posted as good a record as Bradshaw. They also posted as good as numbers too!
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Uh,no they didnt. What other steelers QB won a season MVP?
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The backup QB's for the Steel Curtain...collectively, they posted as good a record as Bradshaw. They also posted as good as numbers too!
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Uh,no they didnt. What other steelers QB won a season MVP? >>
In 1976, Mike Kruczek was 6-0 for the Steelers - Bradshaw was 4-4. Kruczek had a higher passer rating as well.
In 1974, Joe Gilliam & Terry Hanratty were 5-1-1 as starters. Bradshaw was 5-2. Gilliam had a higher passer rating than Bradshaw. Hanratty, perhaps proving that the Steelers could win with ANYBODY at QB, was 2-for-15 with 3 picks in his lone start - and they still won.
In 1973, Gilliam & Hanratty were 2-3 as starters while Bradshaw was 8-1.
In the rest of his seasons, Bradshaw started pretty much every game until 1982, after the Steel Curtain era had ended.
So, yeah, the Steelers backups two out of three years had a better record than Bradshaw - and better numbers, to boot.
Tabe
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The backup QB's for the Steel Curtain...collectively, they posted as good a record as Bradshaw. They also posted as good as numbers too!
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Uh,no they didnt. What other steelers QB won a season MVP? >>
In 1976, Mike Kruczek was 6-0 for the Steelers - Bradshaw was 4-4. Kruczek had a higher passer rating as well.
In 1974, Joe Gilliam & Terry Hanratty were 5-1-1 as starters. Bradshaw was 5-2. Gilliam had a higher passer rating than Bradshaw. Hanratty, perhaps proving that the Steelers could win with ANYBODY at QB, was 2-for-15 with 3 picks in his lone start - and they still won.
In 1973, Gilliam & Hanratty were 2-3 as starters while Bradshaw was 8-1.
In the rest of his seasons, Bradshaw started pretty much every game until 1982, after the Steel Curtain era had ended.
So, yeah, the Steelers backups two out of three years had a better record than Bradshaw - and better numbers, to boot.
Tabe >>
Says nothing. Maybe those two years Bradshaw faced tougher teams. I know for certain Bradshaw had injuries in 1976. The season MVP is an INDIVIDUAL reward. How many did Hanratty , Kruczek and Gilliam win? In the playoffs you face tougher teams. What were Hanratty's and Gilliams record in the playoffs? How many times did those backups win playoff or super bowl MVP'S? How many times did those other qb's make the pro bowl with other teams? There was a reason why they were backups. Trying to say those qb's were just as good as Bradshaw hold no water. I would also bet that those other qb'S didnt call their own plays.
<< <i>Says nothing. Maybe those two years Bradshaw faced tougher teams. I know for certain Bradshaw had injuries in 1976. The season MVP is an INDIVIDUAL reward. How many did Hanratty , Kruczek and Gilliam win? In the playoffs you face tougher teams. What were Hanratty's and Gilliams record in the playoffs? How many times did those backups win playoff or super bowl MVP'S? How many times did those other qb's make the pro bowl with other teams? There was a reason why they were backups. Trying to say those qb's were just as good as Bradshaw hold no water. I would also bet that those other qb'S didnt call their own plays. >>
Nobody said the backups were as good as Bradshaw - just that they won as often, and with better numbers, as he did. That's an indisputable fact.
It's also worth noting that the year he won the MVP, Bradshaw threw for only 2900 yards and had 20 picks. Not saying he was or wasn't a deserving winner just that it's not like he was out-of-his-mind great that year.
Terry was a fine QB, the exactly right guy for that team. But, as he himself has stated - and not just in that "awwww shucks, I sucked" humility that he likes to portray - there were an awful lot of guys that could have led that team to multiple Super Bowl wins.
Tabe
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Nobody said the backups were as good as Bradshaw - just that they won as often, and with better numbers, as he did. That's an indisputable fact.
Comparing a few select games over an entire career is meaningless.
Terry was a fine QB, the exactly right guy for that team. But, as he himself has stated - and not just in that "awwww shucks, I sucked" humility that he likes to portray - there were an awful lot of guys that could have led that team to multiple Super Bowl wins.
Tabe >>
As with any other great team out of the respect for your teammates.
Consider that Brady has three-rings-and-counting in a parity-driven era. Then consider there's another season when there was no ring but that season the Patriots enjoyed their first 16-0 season, and he set the season touchdown record of the magical 50 TDs (against just 8 INTs).
Careerwise, Brady has a ratio of roughly 2.5 TDs thrown for every interception thrown! Many years, his offensive line has been stout, but his receiving corps have been mediocre to pedestrian - or worse.
Using the above, I think many can make the case that, at age 33, Tom Brady is one of the Ten Greatest Quarterbacks of All-Time already. I can.
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Though an Eagles fan, I'm pulling for Brady & the Patriots tonight. This is because I like to see greatness and grandeur. I don't like parity, although the NFL does all it can to promote thirty-two teams with records close to 8-8. That would be tedious and forgettable. Dynasties breed passion; favorite and underdog; hero and villain; moment and memory.
<< <i>How many "go to" guys has Brady been through? Oh yeah..........10-0 right now, I can see the Jets coming back though........ >>
Not this time! Brady seems to be on a higher plane since the Browns game. Now the defense is playing inspired football as well.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Nerd alert! I broke down some more simple stats today, and it mildly reinforces the Brady=quality, Manning=quantity condition.
Career TD/INT ratio: Quality measure, Brady superior.
Brady 2.45
Manning 1.99
Career QB rating: Quality measure. Essentially equals.
Brady 94.7
Manning 94.8
Career Passing Yardage Per Game: A quantity measure. Manning wins, probably closer than most think.
Brady 240
Manning 264
Career Super Bowl Championship Rings: Brady.
Brady 3
Manning 1
The statistic which I calculated that is most shocking to me: Peyton Manning has played in 45% more NFL games than Tom Brady. This truth hardly seems possible - it is! Consequently, it gives cumulative career stats less meaning and credence to more of the "quality" and "per game" metrics as above.
Peter King recently revealed his Top 10 Quarterbacks Of All-Time on ESPN Radio. He did have one caveat - that is dismissing hard-to-compare quarterbacks of yesteryear like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh. The top two on that list of ten:
#1: Joe Montana
#2: Tom Brady
He is still just 33 years old...and has jaw-dropping good looks.
As Weinhold and CHFF point out, Brady trumps Manning in all quality and efficiency statistics.
Add in the fact that Brady plays 95% of his games outdoors, and the last 6 or 7 in cold weather, while Manning plays anywhere from 12-13 in a dome and/or warm weather.
Also add in the fact that since 1994, the Colts used 9 of 15 first round picks (60%) on offensive players that Manning has played with (M. Faulk, M. Harrison, Tarik Glenn, Edgerrin James, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Addai, A. Gonzalez, D. Brown). Other than the last 2 picks, all of those guys were/are ELITE offensive players. Conversely, the Patriots have used 5 of 12 1st round picks (42%) on offensive players that have played with Brady (Damian Woody, Daniel Graham, Ben Watson, Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney) - none of which were impact skill position guys.
I never thought Brady's 50 TDs would be approached again, but if the Patriots can find a viable deep threat somewhere next year, the offense will dwarf what they did in 2007. The rest of the skill positions on the squad right now are light years better than the Watson/Maroney/Stallworth/Gaffney group that rounded out that 2007 offense.
<< <i>34 Touchdowns, 4 Interceptions, and leading the #1 team in the NFL.
Peter King recently revealed his Top 10 Quarterbacks Of All-Time on ESPN Radio. He did have one caveat - that is dismissing hard-to-compare quarterbacks of yesteryear like Otto Graham and Sammy Baugh. The top two on that list of ten:
#1: Joe Montana
#2: Tom Brady
He is still just 33 years old...and has jaw-dropping good looks.
I wouldnt put montana or brady at the top 2. Elway and Manning gets my vote. But you know what they say about opinions.
<< <i>Their no Roger Staubach >>
Please. Hell, Danny White was better than Staubach, and could punt as well.
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PHILADELPHIA (AP) - September 13, 2007 -- Sheldon Brown and the Eagles hoped a blitz would rattle Tom Brady.
One problem: Every time the Eagles rushed Brady in the Super Bowl, the Patriots nullified the defensive attack with screen passes. Lots of them. On almost every play defensive coordinator Jim Johnson called for a blitz, the Patriots used the short pass to confuse the Eagles.
After the Patriots beat the Eagles 24-21 in 2005 to win the Lombardi Trophy, Brown thought the Patriots beat them with nothing but sharp offensive playcalling. Now, he's not so sure.
With spying accusations leveled this week against the Patriots, some of the Eagles left from the NFC title team are wondering if New England used bootleg film to their advantage in the Super Bowl.
"Do I think about it? Mmm hmmm," said Brown, their starting cornerback. "It's crazy. I just don't know how far back it goes.
Something's not right about that."
Pro Bowl safety Brian Dawkins found the accusations troublesome.
"Now there's always going to be questions about the situation," Dawkins said Thursday. "Was it great adjustments at halftime or what?"
Pittsburgh wide receiver Hines Ward said this week that he suspected the Patriots had some type of inside information on the Steelers before at least one of the teams' two AFC championship game matchups since the 2001 season. While Ward said the Patriots knew a lot of Pittsburgh's calls, none of the Eagles could offer any type of solid proof of any shenanigans.
"For me to think back two years ago about something they may or may not have done, it's not worth my time," running back Brian Westbrook said.
New England beat the New York Jets in last Sunday's season opener in which an on-field video camera focusing on Jets coaches was confiscated from a Patriots employee.
On Thursday, New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it doesn't shock me that it happened," Dawkins said.
Some Eagles said occasional signal-stealing is an accepted part of the game. But they believe what the Patriots are accused of doing crosses the football morality line because it threatens the integrity of the game.
"It's different if you're talking about recording it," Dawkins said. "What can you do if you try to signal a play in?"
Eagles coach Andy Reid steered away from questions about the alleged cheating other than to say he has no doubts New England's victory was legitimate.
"That's something Bill and the Patriots are working through," Reid said.
Brown said he noticed a difference in New England's playcalling in the second quarter. After the Patriots gained only 45 yards in the first quarter, they had 286 over the next three.
Brady hit running back Corey Dillon and gained 29 total yards on a pair of screens to open New England's first full drive of the second quarter. They didn't score on that drive, but did on four of the next five drives.
The Patriots went to the screen pass again on the decisive drive early in the fourth quarter, this time with Brady connecting with Kevin Faulk on two passes for 27 yards.
"I was like, 'Man, I never saw that many screens," Brown said.
Brown wonders if it was normal playcalling from a team good enough to win three Super Bowls in four seasons, a Patriots team that used a strong scouting report to gain a fair edge, or was somebody picking up the Eagles defensive calls from a sideline camera that deprived them of a fair shot?
"I think they should forfeit, man," said punt returner Reno Mahe, smiling. "We won the Super Bowl. I think we should get it.
I'm going to go trade my NFC championship ring for a Super Bowl ring."
The headline over a picture of Belichick on the back page of Thursday's Philadelphia Daily News might have said it all: "Counterfeit RING: Spy Scandal Helps Explain Birds' Super Bowl Loss."
Gimme a break.
Tabe