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Did I mess up in buying this Gooden RC?

DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
I was in the market for a nice MINT 1984 Fleer Update Dwight Gooden card. Searched and searched, but saw many off centered from side to side. The perfect one was in a PSA 10 holder that sold for over $150 on ebay. I am leary about paying over a $100 more than a PSA 9 version simply because a psa 10 resubmitted may not always get a psa 10. Its not a solid objective grade. A solid psa 9 that is centered will likely always be a psa 9, but sometimes a psa 10. Anyway, I digress.

I thought I saw a very nice psa 9. It looked centered. The seller was not an experienced veteran, but seemed honest as he had perfect feedback. He did not have a scan, but a photograph. His other cards were also photographed. I guess he just did not have the means since its not like he sells alot anyway to invest in a scanner. These are not $100 cards either, so ..... I paid $28 shipped for this Gooden RC.

image
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
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Comments

  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    When I got the card, this is what it looked like. The top to bottom centering was not what I expected and it likely was the optical illusion of the way the photo was taken.

    image


    image
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • hhmag70hhmag70 Posts: 2,107
    Looks sharp.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    There is some fuzziness on the edges and in one or two corners, but its still sharp. The photo has some bleeding towards Gooden's right side (or your left as you look at it). The photo is either bleed to one side or the correct term might be "off focus"?

    The top to bottom centering is off, but its minor. The side to side centering may actually be dead on and gives the card some good eye appeal.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    $28/dlvd is a very good price for it. they regularly top $40 when listed at auction
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    From what others have said, looks like you got a pretty good deal. I used to think sellers were trying to play optical illusions with me until my scanner broke and I needed to use the digital camera...that angle could just be his way of reducing glare from the flash.

  • HallcoHallco Posts: 3,651 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have no clue on price/value,etc...but the card is nice. One small issue that I am seeing(and it may not be this way, it may just be the scan) is the blue strip at the top that has the Fleer looks to be somewhat tilted or a liitle off. I am looking at the space between the strip and the top of the card from the left side to the right. There seems to be more space on the right. Not sure if I am saying this right or even if it really there. Other than that, card card looks really sharp! Congrats!
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Hallco,

    I see what you mean about the blue strip. I did not see that until you told me. For some reason, the scan is not razor sharp (its a tiny bit fuzzy), and the card may not be seated straight in the psa holder because there is some wiggle room. It could be an optical illusion of some kind too.


    Thanks guys for replying. So, this is a good psa 9 and the price is OK too. If the card were really any more pricey I would insist on a scan or bid very low. I guess I did OK with this and can proudly add this to my permanent collection--one of the most iconic cards of the 1980s....

    I will go ahead and give the seller his due positive and 5 stars.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • MeteoriteGuyMeteoriteGuy Posts: 7,140 ✭✭
    In his prime, the most impressive baseball pitcher I have ever seen. Good deal.
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭
    i think all 9's have centering issues.

    here is mine:

    image
    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You paid $28 for a graded Dwight Gooden Rookie card. What are you concerned about? This is a great deal regardless of VCP.


    If you don't like it buy another one and sell this one. You might lose a six pack of beer but that is risk you take with cards in this price range.


    I love this card and Dwight Gooden caused us to go to stores all over Orlando in 1985 looking for packs of Topps and Fleer dying to get a Dwight Gooden. He was one of the most dominate pitchers ever and yes he had problems in his personal life but he never cheated like so many from that era.


    Good luck with your purchase.

  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭
    I distinctly remember standing in Marquette park (Chicago) as a 11 year old in the spring of 1986. I was with my entire little league team, and the coaches had the box of team jerseys for the new season. We actually had to do an improvised "drawing" to see who would get #16, because there wasnt a single kid there who didnt want that number!!! Doc was the brightest star in any sport at that time!
  • GoDodgersFanGoDodgersFan Posts: 1,391 ✭✭✭
    Great card especially at 28.00.

    For 1980s, this is truly low print.
  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>Great card especially at 28.00.

    For 1980s, this is truly low print. >>




    How many sets were made? You MUST have a decent idea because of your above statement.
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    they say 5000 factory sets, not sure if it is true but probably close,

    3600 Clemens graded by PSA so if it was like 100,000 with the long term value that card had the pop number would be much greater

  • gecko109gecko109 Posts: 8,231 ✭


    << <i>they say 5000 factory sets, not sure if it is true but probably close,

    3600 Clemens graded by PSA so if it was like 100,000 with the long term value that card had the pop number would be much greater >>




    Dont forget that PSA is just 1 of many grading companies. Figure at least another 3600 reside in all other slabs combined. So now we are at about 7,000 copies that are actually graded. There were FAR more than 5,000 sets produced!
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't know if anyone really knows but the vast majority of these cards have been slabbed. I would say 75% so maybe the real number is 10,000 or a little more

    Regardless this set is much more rare then a pack produced set from the mid 80's


  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I just checked BGS and they have graded 1430 of the Clemens card

    the other thing is the pop reports may be elevated do to crack outs and re subs

  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Dpeck100,

    Thank you for the vote of confidence! After all is said and done, I think you are right, I did get a good price and a good card. Nothing to regret. I was just hoping the card photo was more focused or that the bleeding was absent and the top/down centering was better. I took that risk with the poor photo on the auction. It could also be the reason why this card did not hit $40--potential bidders did not want to risk it. The bidders were uncertain how this card looked like.


    @ThoseBackPages....you have a nice sweet card too. Your top to bottom centering is better, but the left-right centering is a bit off (within PSA 9 limits, of course). Considering this set is rarer than the regular issues, a PSA 9 is still a top notch grade.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The other thing you have to keep in mind is that card grading is a phenominon that has taken place in the last ten years.

    A Dwight Gooden card would have been handled frequently in the mid 80's as this and the Topps Tiffany were the hottest cards in the hobby.

    There are 195 graded in a 9 and only 32 graded a 10 so far. This is semi rare card and over time I think people will begin to value a player of his caliber. I would argue that all high end Dwight Gooden cards are a good value at the current prices with some modest upside potential. The shear fact he threw his career away will keep them from being must have's in all collections but I do suspect more collectors will want to own his cards.


  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I think the 1984 Fleer Update print run was closer to 35,000 sets.

    I remember ordering the traded sets in 1984, the Topps and Fleer sets were the same price at first. Since it was Fleer's first traded set, they only printed to order unlike Topps. When the dealers tried to order more sets, Fleer said "no mas" and then the frenzy started.

    The 1984 Fleer Update set is one of the greatest sets in the hobby. It has it all - key rookies, relative scarcity, hall of famers, and a nice design.
    Mike
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    Wonder how much blow Dwight was holding behind his back?
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Dpeck,

    My sentiments exactly. Gooden may not be a HOFer, ever, but he is also not a common. He was one of the stars of the 1980s, no doubt. His peek performance is unmatched, he just trashed his career early, that's all. His cards also have a nostalgia factor to them. People who lived in the 80s will want him in their collection because it was once a $100 card at a time when that was something truely special.

    The prices on Gooden cards are at their most consumer friendly levels, hence the time I decided to buy one. I also like the Topps Tiffany, which I will hunt for. I just checked my collection again and found that I do indeed have one 1984 Topps Traded raw.....
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    These are very good bets at these levels.


    If you are going to go long any baseball cards you need the nostalgia factor as mentioned. That is the only cards that will hold up; the rest are on a slow bleed.

  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭


    << <i>These are very good bets at these levels.


    If you are going to go long any baseball cards you need the nostalgia factor as mentioned. That is the only cards that will hold up; the rest are on a slow bleed. >>




    Let me get a pencil so I can write this down.
    What you're saying is that cards that have positive nostalgia attached to them are better investments than those that don't?
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes that is what I am saying. You need buyers. Buyers of 1984 Baseball cards are either hard core collectors or someone who wants to revisit their younger days and have items they either valued or wanted when they were young.


    This is exactly why the vintage card market is strong is older men want to own pieces of history that mean something to them and there are many that have the bucks to keep the prices high.

    You don't see teenagers buying 1941 baseball cards.

  • minors4meminors4me Posts: 37


    << <i>

    << <i>they say 5000 factory sets, not sure if it is true but probably close,

    3600 Clemens graded by PSA so if it was like 100,000 with the long term value that card had the pop number would be much greater >>




    Dont forget that PSA is just 1 of many grading companies. Figure at least another 3600 reside in all other slabs combined. So now we are at about 7,000 copies that are actually graded. There were FAR more than 5,000 sets produced! >>

    The supposed print run was definitely 5,000 sets, the reason the population reports are so high is because fakes/reprints/counterfeits or what ever you want to call them. This is one of those cases were graded doesn't guaranty an original.
  • handymanhandyman Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭✭✭
    and I cant sleep.
    No you did fine
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Minors4me,

    slabbed counterfeits? There can't be that many if at all for the 1984 Fleer Updates. I am sure the Gooden, Clemens and Puckett cards are screened for fakes at PSA since they are always suspect.

    People may have cracked open psa 9s and kept submitting them until they got a psa 10. The pop report cannot keep track of that, so the same card may be slabbed three times and it shows up as three different cards in the pop report.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • royalbrettroyalbrett Posts: 620 ✭✭✭
    I still can't believe I bought the Topps traded set that year and not the Fleer. They were the same price! Topps vs. Fleer in 1984 was a no-brainer!?!?! Or at least I thought.
    Yeah, I uploaded that KC icon in 2001
  • mccardguy1mccardguy1 Posts: 1,508 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Yes that is what I am saying. You need buyers. Buyers of 1984 Baseball cards are either hard core collectors or someone who wants to revisit their younger days and have items they either valued or wanted when they were young.


    This is exactly why the vintage card market is strong is older men want to own pieces of history that mean something to them and there are many that have the bucks to keep the prices high.

    You don't see teenagers buying 1941 baseball cards. >>



    Ummm What?

    I see teenagers and twenty somethings buying 1941 cards as well as 50's era cards all the time. I was also one of those that was buying these cards back when I was a teen during the late 70's and early 80's. As a matter of fact I am still buying them (working on a 1955 Bowman set) even though I was born in 1963. I respectfully disagree with you on this comment!

    As to the comment about Gooden being at the right price on will be a good investment (yes, I paraphrased) Dwight has been retired for at least 10 years now. Th elittle boys who collected him in 1984 are in their mid to late 30's which I think we can all agree is the time where most guys start thinking nostalgic and like to start buying back their childhood. I just think that if Gooden cards havnt taken off at this point in time, they wont be taking off at all. Their values are probably where they should be and will remain especially on a card suck as the Fleer update where quantities were known to be limited.

    I am on a budget and I am not afraid to use it!!
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    In 1985 or 1986 when i was about 14 a friend of mine bought a Gooden at a show for around $100. It was like the hottest card on the planet. Everyone kid wished they had the money for it

    To anybody that age at that time into Baseball cards that card was like better than owning a block of gold. Nothing could top having it. (Mattingly 84 donruss close 2nd)
  • 3SportHOFCOLLECTOR3SportHOFCOLLECTOR Posts: 88
    You bought a Dwight Gooden rookie in 2010. It has not been a hot card in like 20 years, why not a Canseco 1986 Donruss or a 1983 Topps Traded Strawberry while your at it or even Kevin McReynolds 1984 Donruss. What was it worth at its peak for the 1984 Gooden Fleer Update?
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    Thats a good question. Im sure someone here knows. Im trying to remember. Im guessing its peak was around $200
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am in no way suggesting his cards are going to sky rocket. I simply think $28 is too low for a Fleer Update in Mint condition. I think this should be a $50 or more card. It is never going to $200 in my opinion.

    Perhaps I am wrong about 15 year guys today buying older cards. I doubt there are many but if you have first hand experience I will take your word for it.

    The 80's were a great era and I am 31 so I fit the exact profile of one who has some nostalgia. I own a raw Gooden 1984 Fleer Update along with the rest of the set. I bought the set in 2002 and acutally have the CLemens and Puckett displayed on a shelf. Unfortunately the Clemens has dropped a huge amount. I am focusing exclusively on different cards but I would pull the trigger on a 1985 Fleer PSA 10 if the price was right or perhaps an 84 Fleer Update 10.


    I believe the card peaked at $200 as mentioned prior and that was quite a sum in 1985 for a card. The Honus Wagner I read sold for something like $25,000 in 1985 if that tells you anything.
  • cardbendercardbender Posts: 1,831 ✭✭
    I heard from a dealer who ordered directly from Fleer at the time, and was the second largest Baseball card buyer of new products in Wisconsin behind Larry Fritsch, that the production level on the '84 Fleer Update was 40,000 factory sets.

    Nice buy by the OP for $28. Looks like the card could use a new holder with those scratches. Great card, great player in his day.

    To quote Rick James, "Cocaine's a hell of a drug."
  • AlbertdiditAlbertdidit Posts: 560 ✭✭✭
    My 1984 gooden - gotta love the centering..9.5...corners 8.5...Edges..8...surface..8...could make a case for an 8.5 on this one.

    So tough to find perfect centering on these!!

    image
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    I was looking at another Gooden rookie to see what it would sell for. I guess my $28 was a good deal.

    1984 Fleer Update Gooden

    $58.49 for a recently sold 1984 Fleer Update Gooden rookie in Mint Condition!!

    This is not even a GEM MINT example. This particular card in the link is an average looking PSA 9. It would never get a PSA 10 no matter how many times one tries unless there was some real oversight (which does happen, but I would not hold my breath on this card).

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Very nice, above $50 like I said it should be. If this was a stock where you could have bought thousands of shares you just made a nearly 100% paper profit, nice going!
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    Yes, Dpeck, I know what you mean.

    I really did not NEED a Gooden RC in the first place, but I put in my saved searches on ebay and just waited for the right price. It was fun waiting for it. I got to see alot of Goodens offered and helped me judge what condition and price was acceptable to me. I just waited till I got one that was perfect, or visually perfect, in L-R centering. That recent one that sold is obviously off L-R centering.

    That Gooden that just sold could have been a Christmas pick up, you never know. It seemed like aggressive bidding towards the end.
    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • Dpeck100Dpeck100 Posts: 10,912 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really have no way in judging this but I doubt many are buying Dwight Gooden RC for someone for Christmas. I actually think a good part of the card market could be soft during December do to discretionary dollars being spent on loved one's.


    It doesn't matter what the buyers were thinking the bottom line is you pulled the trigger and got a great buy!
  • ndleondleo Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Makes the $150 I paid for for the PSA 10 1984 Fleer Gooden RC actually seem like a decent deal. When I bought it I got a huge case of buyers remorse.....paying $150 for a rookie card of a strung out pitcher!

    But like anyone who was a fan in the mid-80's knows, Gooden was 10X the Strasberg hype machine......and with no internet. I think it made him more mysterious, since the only time I saw him is when the Mets played the Braves or the Cubs and on Sportscenter.
    Mike
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭

    Well, time has passed and the 1984 Fleer Update Gooden in PSA 9 has gone up alot since my initial post. Maybe its the nostalgia buying kicking in.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,407 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was able to meet Doc a couple of years ago. friendly guy and very engaging. generous with his time. I hope he has finally been able to beat his demons.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • JoeBanzaiJoeBanzai Posts: 11,934 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Card is right along the lines of what you implied you were willing to pay.

    You got a low end 9 and paid very little.

    2013,14 and 15 Certificate Award Winner Harmon Killebrew Master Set and Master Topps Set
  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I was able to meet Doc a couple of years ago. friendly guy and very engaging. generous with his time. I hope he has finally been able to beat his demons.

    Yep, he's a fantastic guy. I met him back in the 90s at a Subway (restaurant) in St Petersburg. Not sure if he still lives here but he used to live only 5 minutes from my house.

    We chatted a bit. I told him I was a Mets fan and really enjoyed and appreciated his contribution to the team. He was super nice and just a pleasure to talk to. He even offered his autograph without me asking. Funny thing is, he asked the subway guy that was making his sandwich for a napkin and a pen. It was awesome LOL

    1994 Pro Line Live

    TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject

  • wadevlwadevl Posts: 224 ✭✭✭

    You did fine,
    maybe $10 for a lighthouse slab, give it a whole new look

    Lucky
    BIGLEAGUE SportsCards
    "Respect The Hobby"
    www.bigleaguesc.com
    https://www.ebay.com/str/bigleagueseller
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeutscherGeist said:
    Well, time has passed and the 1984 Fleer Update Gooden in PSA 9 has gone up alot since my initial post. Maybe its the nostalgia buying kicking in.

    I live for nostalgia Andre.

    Always liked the "Doc"

    Mike
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭

    @DeutscherGeist said:
    When I got the card, this is what it looked like. The top to bottom centering was not what I expected and it likely was the optical illusion of the way the photo was taken.

    Card looks like a perfectly acceptable 9 to me.

  • Jimmy_CommonpantsJimmy_Commonpants Posts: 386 ✭✭✭

    I own several copies of the card. Looks really nice. Only thing I would be concerned about is why nobody bid higher when the card typically sells for double or more. Did the seller have another photo where you can make out the cert#? It may be as simple as other potential bidders didn't trust the seller due to the photo/no scan.

    I actively collect Kirby Puckett. I have collections of Michael Jordan, Emmitt Smith, Roberto Clemente, Dwight Gooden, Tom Seaver, Errict Rhett and Evan Longoria.

  • LarkinCollectorLarkinCollector Posts: 8,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jimmy_Commonpants said:
    Only thing I would be concerned about is why nobody bid higher when the card typically sells for double or more. Did the seller have another photo where you can make out the cert#? It may be as simple as other potential bidders didn't trust the seller due to the photo/no scan.

    The OP was over 8 years ago.

    Who is the Golf Card Guy?
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