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Lost a case against ebay with the BBB

BlacklabelsocietyBlacklabelsociety Posts: 1,033
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
A few months ago i sold a PSA card on ebay. After the buyer received the card, he wanted his money back because he was not happy with the cards grade. In a email the buyer admitted the card was good and legit but still filed a snad claim because he felt the card did not deserve the grade it got. I wrote an email during my dispute that it is NOT snad if an item is properly described but the buyer didnt want it after he received it or didnt meet his expectations. Ebay still sided with the buyer. I really believe now that when someone files a bogas snad claim, the ebay gang does not even bother to read the sellers emails/dispute. I then file a claim with the better business bureau and wrote a long statement saying how ebay went against their own rules/policy. It then took ebay 6 WEEKS to send back the BBB a response. I then sent a counter response and ebay had the final word. Both times ebay completely ignored what i said in my complaint and ignored everything i said. THE BBB then told me after i called, that there was nothing more they could do. So much for that waste of time.

Comments

  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭

    It has worked HUNDREDS of times, and FAILED hundreds of times.


    I am pretty sure, but can't confirm it, that neither EBAY nor PayPal
    still have a "group" that handles all BBB complaints. It appears that
    such complaints are simply parsed out to any CS-monkey that is
    available.


    Thru most of 2009, I know that PP had a group dedicated to BBB
    complaints; they routinely gave "courtesy refunds" to make the
    complaint go away.

    Now that EBAY is handling INR/SNAD claims themselves, I think
    they easily grant them; BUT, many buyers have reported that
    they lost contested SNAD-claims.


    If/when I get burned, I will still file with the San Jose BBB.

    .........................

    The only other "EZ" option is to file suit in Small Claims.


    The "I changed my mind" SNAD policy needs to be stated
    in the TOS, or EBAY needs to honor their current TOS.

    .....................

    In related news, for those not yet aware, SNAD-claims
    now apply to ANY VENUE where PayPal is used. Even
    BST sales are covered for SNAD.

    Open season on sellers this Xmas.











    .
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    Why didn't you just refund the guy's money and list the card again?
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭
    any pics? or links?


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • BlacklabelsocietyBlacklabelsociety Posts: 1,033


    << <i>Why didn't you just refund the guy's money and list the card again? >>



    I wouldve happily gave him a refund if i were at fault. PSA is a recommended ebay product.

    Another thing i forgot to mention. The guy filed his case with ebay 49 days after he paid. 4 days after the 45 day limit so again ebay went against their own rules and completely ignored the fact in their responses to the BBB.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Why didn't you just refund the guy's money and list the card again? >>



    I wouldve happily gave him a refund if i were at fault. PSA is a recommended ebay product.

    Another thing i forgot to mention. The guy filed his case with ebay 49 days after he paid. 4 days after the 45 day limit so again ebay went against their own rules and completely ignored the fact in their responses to the BBB. >>



    I think it is 45 days after the delivery confirmation shows the item arrived.
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭
    Take this as a lesson learned: The buyer will always win. If they want a refund, give it to them.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭


    45-days after payment is the TOS.




    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭
    What is the $1600 card?


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • MULLINS5MULLINS5 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭


    << <i>45-days after payment is the TOS. >>



    Good to know for sure, Thanks!
  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Even in the rare case that the seller prevails, it sounds like it take a whole lot of time and trouble on his part. Better to just refund the buyer upon return of the item and list it again, IMO..


    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • burke23burke23 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭
    After my own horrific experience filing a claim with ebay as a BUYER (not seller) and escalating to the BBB to no avail, I fail to see what purpose the BBB serves in the process. If ebay doesn't want to overrule their decision, BBB is ok with that.
    Looking for rare Randy Moss rookies and autos, as well as '97 PMG Red Football cards for my set.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In my viewpoint, ya ship the customer the item, if they don't like it and want to return it, ya take it back and refund their money.

    I think it saves a lot of time that way, and to me, time is money. Further aggravation on a sale like that would just cost me more time and money, so I cut my losses, refund their money, and sell the item to somebody else.
  • fkwfkw Posts: 1,766 ✭✭
    BBB??? SNAD???? what??...... image

    Good sellers will do satisfaction guarantee for any reason. ie. If your not happy return for a refund.
    Its the same for most any retail business too.
    Its there for a reason.
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,624 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>In my viewpoint, ya ship the customer the item, if they don't like it and want to return it, ya take it back and refund their money.

    I think it saves a lot of time that way, and to me, time is money. Further aggravation on a sale like that would just cost me more time and money, so I cut my losses, refund their money, and sell the item to somebody else. >>



    PS: just like a company that sells on net 30 day terms, usually in their bookkeeping, allows about 1% or 2% for bad debts...with an internet seller business model, you should do the books to allow for a certain percentage of losses for returned items, lost ebay listing fees, mailing costs, etc...you need to allow for that and expect that in your business model when working on how much profit margin you wish to have.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭
    To Blacklabelsociety,

    It sounds like you did everything correct. But let us look at a different way. Were the scans of the card large? Front and Back? Usually, a supersized photo is good in determining if a PSA card has the right kind of eye appeal a collector desires. If it was a bad photo, then perhaps the customer did have issues with the card once he saw how it really was.

    This customer of yours sounds like he had buyer's remorse.

    Can seller's still cancel bids? With the holidays approaching, there will be more traffic on ebay, so a seller can afford to dump some suspect bidders in order to minimize hassles.

    Perhaps offering a return policy would makes things smoother. As a business model on ebay, you do have to account for and expect incidentals.....its one cost of doing business. The sooner one comprehends that, the easier it is to handle issues with customers.

    The BBB is sometimes helpful and sometimes not. Its a gamble, but one where the investment is low and the outcome, potentially much higher.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    the BBB is a complete scam
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭
    So is the thread...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>the BBB is a complete scam >>



    yes you buy your way into having one of the little stickers on your window. Yes they do keep track of complains and call themselves a "bureau", other than that it is a really good racket!
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    A lot of people believe the BBB is a government entity. They are nothing but a for profit organization that strong arms small businesses to pay a fee or have low ratings
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Posts: 5,491 ✭✭✭
    Sue Ebay in small claims court. Home cook them in your own hometown. image
    Ron Burgundy

    Buying Vintage, all sports.
    Buying Woody Hayes, Les Horvath, Vic Janowicz, and Jesse Owens autographed items
  • 5714Ks5714Ks Posts: 175
    I don't see how this could be in any way construed to be BLS' fault....the buyer agreed to the sell.
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,913 ✭✭✭
    ALT...

    reminds me of someone else who posted here...


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • fiveninerfiveniner Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭
    I had the exact same thing happen to me.I sold a 1959 Spahn PSA 6 and seller asked for refund even though it was stated on my auction NO RETURNS ON professionally graded cards.The seller claimed the card did not meet the standards for assigned grade.I had a nice picture on the auction sight of the card.However being in a business that serves customers for 45 years I sent him a refund turned around relisted the card and did just as well the second time around even mentioning on my auction that previous collector was not pleased.I do not remember for sure however I think I eirher recieved close to the same price or over the second time around.
    Tony(AN ANGEL WATCHES OVER ME)
  • bobbyw8469bobbyw8469 Posts: 7,139 ✭✭✭
    I love how all these self proclaimed "experts" opinions are being held in a higher standard than PSA, who if I am not mistaken, is one of the preapproved 3rd party graders......
  • Mickey71Mickey71 Posts: 4,261 ✭✭✭✭
    I've never found that the BBB is helpful at all. Not sure what purpose they have.
  • TabeTabe Posts: 6,185 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those still operating under the delusion that the BBB is a legit organization:

    http://consumerist.com/2010/11/ag-says-ratings-not-trustworthy-after-bbb-gives-a--to-hamas.html

    Tabe
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    wonder if they would implode if you filed a BBB complaint against the BBB?
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