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5oz Silver National Park Coins - trying to organize a monster box buy of each issue.
MsMorrisine
Posts: 32,228 ✭✭✭✭✭
The 5oz Silver National Park coins will be sold via the bullion dealers >only.<
100 coins in a box, 10 coins in a tube, and 10 tubes in a box. I expect 1 issue per box instead of mixed issue boxes.**
(**If they sold them 2 tubes per issue and 5 issues in a box, I think we have enough interest to swing a mixed issue monster box.)
I asked about a "group monster box buy" interest in this thread
So far, I estimate we have interest for only about 20 to 25 coins for each issue right now. If they do come 100 coins in a single issue box, then we are 75 to 80 coins short.
Any more interest out there for these?
100 coins in a box, 10 coins in a tube, and 10 tubes in a box. I expect 1 issue per box instead of mixed issue boxes.**
(**If they sold them 2 tubes per issue and 5 issues in a box, I think we have enough interest to swing a mixed issue monster box.)
I asked about a "group monster box buy" interest in this thread
So far, I estimate we have interest for only about 20 to 25 coins for each issue right now. If they do come 100 coins in a single issue box, then we are 75 to 80 coins short.
Any more interest out there for these?
Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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Herb
Yogi Berra
This makes ordering a box of 100 more compelling. The end dealer would be out of the picture.
However, the facts in the numbers are inescapable. If, :
everyone wants 1 - need 100 people
everyone wants 2 - need 50 people
everyone wants 3 - need 34 people
everyone wants 4 - need 25 people
everyone wants 5 - need 20 people ... then 17, then 15, then 13, then 12
everyone wants 10 - need 10 people
15 people.... 5 for 10 each and 10 for 5 each...
any way to get to 100 coins...
when this idea was first floated, silver was around 17-18, now it's 26. melt on 10x5oz is $1,300 @26/oz, before markup and expenses(shipping&ins.)
As the price of silver creeps (rockets?) up, I see fewer people interested in 10 coins each just due to the price. So, if this ever gets close to getting off the ground, firm orders will be firm orders with no backing out. (That is... You send the $ for 10, you're getting 10 coins and not 5 coins plus 5x$price of 1 back.)
'
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
I can't front the cost of a monster box.
a group buy means that people commit their money and the order is placed.
> Until enough people are willing to commit money to a group of 100 coins, then it can't happen. <
as mentioned above, it's all a matter of numbers.
5 people at 20 coins each
10 people at 10 coins each
15 people.... 10 at 5 each and 5 at 10 each...
any way to get 100.
as it stands right now we're at 36 - 42 coins
<< <i>It also looks like the mint might make a "W" collector version of this coin! I want some of those! "As with all Mint bullion products, those interested in obtaining them must do so through a network of authorized purchasers, or through the secondary market. The Mint does not sell bullion directly to the public, although it has not ruled out creating numismatic versions of the strikes for sale directly to collectors." >>
The unofficial rumor is bullion only.
If not enough interest is out there, then nothing happens.
as it stands right now we're at 38 - 44 coins
(please realize the interest you express is for each of the 5 issues this year... so if someone wants "1" then that is one of each of the 5 issues this year. I expect them to be sold in single issue boxes right now. So that is 100 coins per box and they will (probably) be all the same issue in that box.
<< <i>price pending I'm in for one each if its a one shot deal. 2 per issue if timed monthly. >>
The law mandates these have to be released in the same year as the quarters were issued.
So, it's likely going to hit all at once this year. (only 2 months left for all 5)
I was asked about the benefit since APMEX sells monster boxes at a discount.
I hope to beat or at least match APMEX's price. I can't guarantee anything since not even the mint is telling people the prices.
The benefit is that these won't be cherry picked by major dealers who also sell MS70 First Strikes. (How many 2010 MS70 First Strike ASEs are out there? They are STILL online for sale! My big fear is the dealers who sell MS70s will clean them out of the boxes before anyone else sees them and they sell the MS70s for even more astronomical prices.)
Over on the coin forum people know I'm enough of a dork tht if I promise not to cherry pick, then I'm not. My name goes in the middle of the list. The first person gets the first coin. period. The next person is next. No picking and choosing.
as it stands right now we're at 50 - 56 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Please visit my website Millcitynumismatics.com
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 54 - 60 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 71 - 77 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 64 - 71 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
I haven't instituted a minimum, so 1 of each of the 5 designs is ok by me.
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 67 - 74 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
I haven't instituted a minimum, so 1 of each of the 5 designs is ok by me.
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 73 - 80 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
At this point, we don't have 100 and nothing will even get started without 100.
Simply stating how many you'd want will help us all get an idea of the interest lurking out there. Do we have 100?
Speak up.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
<< <i>Who is the person that is making the purchase for 100 for the group and how will they be distributed. I am interested but like to get the facts straight as others are probably wondering also. Thanks >>
Don't know, but reading his posts, it seems to me that MsMorrisine is organizing it and will be the one to order and distribute as per folks' commitments.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the person that is making the purchase for 100 for the group and how will they be distributed. I am interested but like to get the facts straight as others are probably wondering also. Thanks >>
Don't know, but reading his posts, it seems to me that MsMorrisine is organizing it and will be the one to order and distribute as per folks' commitments. >>
As it stands right now, this is correct.
I haven't instituted a minimum, so 1 of each of the 5 designs is ok by me.
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 82 - 89 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
I haven't instituted a minimum, so 1 of each of the 5 designs is ok by me.
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 85 - 92 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 89 - 96 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
> If your price is over APMEX or Gainesville or Whoever, am I still committed?
No.
I fully expect people to flee to any dealer that has a cheaper price.
> Oh that blows... now the deal will fall apart. Right?
Well, the whole point is:
you're not sending me money right now.
You do if and when I can beat the price.
There is nothing binding anyone to this deal right now. Once money is received, then that's a done deal.
And, I hope it doesn't fall apart, because I hope I can at least match the pricing.
I'm going to try to source a monster box from a major outlet.
If the price to me isn't low enough, I am going to try to source from a local dealer who can get dealer pricing from these same places.
Also, if I can swing it with everyone involved with selling these to us, I'm going to try to pick these up myself instead of waiting on the package services (at no cost to you... just because I want these, and most importantly think I can get them faster and cheaper for everyone by just driving to get them.) Thus, I hope to save on shipping.
> Hey idiot... just go through the dealer first.
That's involving someone who will want a little something for his efforts. I'm going to try both ways to see which is cheaper.
> Where do I send my check?
See the previous questions.
Step #1) Get to 100
Step #2) Match or Beat the other dealer's price.
Step #3) We'll go offline and share info.
Why exchange money if we can't #1) get to 100 and #2) hit the pricing mark?
>
>
Are you waffling on these?
>
>
Since you're not locked into buying through this arrangement, but you know you are planning to buy at least 1 of each please consider giving this arrangement your consideration.
>
>
There is no deal if the pricing can't match or beat other dealer's prices.
>
>
I expect people will back out if the pricing is bad. You can, too.
>
>
But if you know you're buying 1 of each of the 5 designs anyway, consider posting up "your number."
I haven't instituted a minimum, so 1 of each of the 5 designs is ok by me.
The attempt is for 100 coins of each of the 5 designs this year.
If you want 1, then that is for 1 of each design, right? That is what I think we need.**
(**I know a monster box is 100 coins. I assume that is 100 coins of 1 issue. So, to get all 5 issues is 5 monster boxes of 100 coins)
as it stands right now we're at 88 - 95 coins out of 100 (for each issue)
Also. be aware that there are only 2 months left to sell these. Even if they sell them 1 per week, that's over 5 weeks.
> Essentially, if they do not come out all at once, they may as well even spaced one or two weeks apart.
> That means a lot of cash out the door at Christmas time for those wanting 5 - 10 (that's be each design, right?).
(And then there is the last First Spouse Release! Ouch!)
drumroll...
We're at 89 of each of the 5 designs with PMs out for about 9 or 10 more. However, 4 or 5 of those 9 or 10 were end of May replies to the US Coin forum thread. They may not pan out.
Also, I have a couple of people in that 89 who are "thinking about how many due to the price." And the price is unknown.
Now that we are close to 100 and they are due out by the end of the year, I really need anyone and everyone to "pick a number." This is for obvious reasons. The 100 is a fixed number. I have to include and exclude people really soon.
I ask those that are debating due to the price just to give me a number to go with.
So that is PMs out for 8 or 9 more.
also:
I put in another call to Mint HQ with no return call yet. (probably ever) I'm also going to put in a call to the distrib. for a call back when they get more info.
No release date yet nor a release price.
>> I have to temporarily suspend automatically adding names to the list.
>> Feel free to respond, but it's on a wait list type basis.
I have some PMs out asking for confirmation for 6 more.
Once I hear back, I'll know how much room there will be left for additions.
>> I have to temporarily suspend automatically adding names to the list.
>> Feel free to respond, but it's on a wait list type basis.
>> There are 3 on the waiting list for 3 sets of 5.
I have some PMs out asking for confirmation for 1 or 2 more who responded before the waitlist.
Once I hear back, I'll know how much room there will be left for additions off the wait list.
>> I have to temporarily suspend automatically adding names to the list.
>> Feel free to respond, but it's on a wait list type basis.
>> There are 4 on the waiting list for 4 sets of 5.
I have some PMs out asking for confirmation for 1 or 2 more who responded before the waitlist.
Once I hear back, I'll know how much room there will be left for additions off the wait list.
Someone was deciding based on price, and I just had to put them on the waitlist. I put them at the top since they were in before other's requests.
Do not fear.
We have 6 others on the waitlist for a total of 7 of each of the 5 designs.
>> I have to temporarily suspend automatically adding names to the list.
>> Feel free to respond, but it's on a wait list type basis.
>> There are a total of 7 on the waiting list for 8 sets of 5, with the first basing participation on pricing.
I have some PMs out asking for confirmation for 1 or 2 more who responded before the waitlist.
Once I hear back, I'll know how much room there will be left for additions off the wait list.
The Mint is not going to sell all of them to distributors who then get rich from these coins. They will be in the 175 to 200 range (each) and my guess is that after a quick sell out, they will be going for $300 minimum.
Every type collector will need one. They will not be sold in bulk via distribution.
<< <i>I think you will have trouble buying 100 of these coins. The Mint has recognized they will be a rarity as they will not be able to produce 100,000 of each. Something like 25K each is more likely and they will be sold one at a time on the Mint's web site is my guess.
The Mint is not going to sell all of them to distributors who then get rich from these coins. They will be in the 175 to 200 range (each) and my guess is that after a quick sell out, they will be going for $300 minimum.
Every type collector will need one. They will not be sold in bulk via distribution. >>
The law explicity states "bullion distribution" channels. That and the national park service can order and sell them, too.
<< <i>I think you will have trouble buying 100 of these coins. The Mint has recognized they will be a rarity as they will not be able to produce 100,000 of each. Something like 25K each is more likely and they will be sold one at a time on the Mint's web site is my guess.
The Mint is not going to sell all of them to distributors who then get rich from these coins. They will be in the 175 to 200 range (each) and my guess is that after a quick sell out, they will be going for $300 minimum.
Every type collector will need one. They will not be sold in bulk via distribution. >>
I'm not sure were you got your info from, but your statements are totally in conflict of what has been published.
1) Only Mint Authorized bullion dealers will be able to buy them directly from the Mint.
2) They have been in production, per the Mint, since the middle of September ( not sure, but I believe @ 2500 coins per hour)
3) The Mint is required by law to cease production & sales by the end of the year.
4) The Mint already indicated that all 5 2010 will be issued at one time.
5) ONCE AGAIN, THEY WILL NOT BE SOLD ON THE MINT'S WEBSITE, BUT ONLY TO THE US MINT AUTHORIZED DEALERS...
<< <i>I got a friend who's a park ranger at Horseshoe Bend national park. Recon he can order me a couple? >>
Not as of right now. None of the National Parks have committed to buy any from the Mint.
In fact the coins can even eventually be repackaged. Which could lead to some cool sets. But no word from the NPS so far.
Here is the law
‘‘(3) DISTRIBUTION.—
‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—In addition to the authorized dealers
utilized by the Secretary in distributing bullion coins and
solely for purposes of distributing bullion coins issued under
this subsection, the Director of the National Park Service,
or the designee of the Director, may purchase numismatic
items issued under this subsection, but only in units of
no fewer than 1,000 at a time, and the Director, or the
Director’s designee, may resell or repackage such numismatic
items as the Director determines to be appropriate.
‘‘(B) RESALE.—The Director of the National Park
Service, or the designee of the Director, may resell, at
cost and without repackaging, numismatic items acquired
by the Director or such designee under subparagraph (A)
to any party affiliated with any national site honored by
a quarter dollar under subsection (t) for repackaging and
resale by such party in the same manner and to the same
extent as such party would be authorized to engage in
such activities under subparagraph (A) if the party were
acting as the designee of the Director under such subparagraph.’’.
And we have a waiting list of 12 people for about 17 more sets of 5.
Can we hit 200, making it 2 boxes of each?
<< <i>Look for these coins to go on sale in March. They will be produced this year, but not sold until next spring. I stand by my distribution statements. I have sources. >>
Based on the Coin World article of a few weeks ago, they didn't seem to be producing them very quickly. And this is supposed to be a bullion coin, but it looked as if they were being individually-handled which is bound to slow down the whole process.
But, doesn't the law compell the Mint to release them this year and to stop producing them as of Dec. 31st?
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The law requires the coins are struck in 2010, they can be sold after that. It is the same as the Mint continuing to sell proof and mint sets the year following the one they we struck. The same is true for the First Spouse and other series. As I recall, the Susan B Anthony proof dollar was on sale for a couple of years after they were initially struck. >>
That is incorrect.
Ther law requires the first 5 to sell this year only.
Here is the law
‘‘(2) AVAILABILITY FOR SALE.—Bullion coins minted under
paragraph (1)—
‘‘(A) shall become available for sale no sooner than
the first day of the calendar year in which the circulating
quarter dollar of which such bullion coin is a duplicate
is issued; and
‘‘(B) may only be available for sale during the year
in which such circulating quarter dollar is issued.
A version of the 5 ounce coins with a W sold via numismatic channels will occur next March.
At 50K made for each coin in a bullion version it is my opinion that the sellers will understand the rarity and knowing the numismatic version will not be sold for a while, add a minimum of $50 to the price of each coin. That is just an opinion based upon the fact that everyone with a type set will need one of these coins. The Mint is not making tens of millions of them like the SAE Unc bullion coin.
And given the fact that the Numismatic version is on the horizon, but not approved by Treasury yet, the probability of raising the price significantly is high. Each purchaser will probably only get 10K each. That is peanuts for a bullion dealer, yet they will have a rarity on their hands.
At $27 and ounce, there is 135 in silver in each coin, add productions costs, i.e. fabrication, etc. plus a very small mark up, we are looking at a coin being sold to the dealers for 150 to 160 each. If you can buy them for less than 200 i will be amazed.
It will be interesting to watch.
<< <i>That is the law for bullion coins, not numismatic coins. But I now agree based upon some research that a bullion coin will be sold via distribution. However, do you think you can buy them for spot plus? I suspect not. >>
I am going through bullion metals dealers. Their only concern is moving metal. Not how collectible it might be.
Although I did talk to one dealer who said they wouldn't order them because they expected to trade like numismatic items.
The others I have talk with seem to be up for them. We'll see what kind of markup there is when the time comes.
My guess was overheating. (Put it in a ZipLock, then into the freezer until ice cold, and it's back)
I have a new one on the way, just in case.
Also, just in case I'm not around to respond to PMs and posts here, the most likely culprit would be that "the router died." Hopefully the new one will be here sometime Tuesday.